Dishwashers - top rack or no top rack

sf7307August 7, 2013

We've never had a d/w with one of those 3rd racks - the kind where you have to lay out each piece of silverware individually. We need a new dishwasher now -- are the 3rd racks a) better at cleaning silverware than a silverware basket, and/or b) so frustrating to use that you generally use the basket anyway?

Any other tips? We've looking at the Bosch 800 series and the Miele mid-range. We have a GE profile now (in a rental) that just doesn't do the job.

I care most about three things - cleaning ability, quietness (open kitchen), and good capacity.

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The time used during loading the silverware tray is saved during storage of the silverware. It also cleans better because the pieces don't get stuck together.

You can buy a silverware basket and remove the trays in the 3rd rack, at least in the Miele. I would never go back to the basket.

For the same money, the Bosch is quieter.

I really like the Miele automatically adjusting the water softener as the hardness level changes. The Bosch is manually adjusted. If you have a water hardness of 4 GPG or higher it really makes a difference.

For basic cleaning I think they are the same but I think the specialty cycles on the Miele are better. Particularly perfect glasscare and china cycles. The build quality and long term durability is also better.

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 5:23PM
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There is also a Kitchen Aid that is a few hundred less than the Miele and it has the 3rd rack for silverware.

I cannot wait to get it in October when our build is done!


    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 6:02PM
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Thanks deeageaux, you really seem to know your stuff! If you had to choose, with an open kitchen, would you choose the Miele Futura Classic or the Bosch 800 DLX? (Both are in the area of $1000 +/-).

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 6:03PM
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I had never heard of Miele, until 2006, when we were remodeling our kitchen.

We saw the Miele with that rack and it was a "Must Have"!
7 years later we are still loving it.

I just toss the silverware up there, no arranging etc.
Silverware comes out great, and before with the old basket setup on our old KA DW, I grabbed the "business end" of a knife, more than once, with the top rack you see what is there, rather than a bunch of utensils in a "basket",


    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 6:05PM
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We just got or Miele and were worried about the 3rd rack and how much of a P.I.T.A it would be, but now we would never have a DW without that feature. We have grown to now hate a basket.

As Dodge (Gary) said you don't have to arrange it, though I tend to as it takes all of like 2 seconds to do it.

Don't hold off on getting it because of this feature, you will love it once you have it and use it.


    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 6:30PM
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Our new Bosch has a third rack, I use it for large utensils (spatulas, serving spoons, etc.). Most of the time we forget to unload it! After reading the above comments though, I want to try it instead of the silverware baskets.

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 7:20PM
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My Bosch has a basket with an optional grid over it and eight compartments. I generally use one compartment for forks, another one for small spoons and so forth. The grid always keeps items from sticking together. Loading of the basket is done in the sink or counter, unloading right next to the cutlery drawer - simple. Because I don't randomly throw items in the basket but group them together, I can grab all forks, knives etc, in one go (almost... depending on the number of pieces).

If I had to get a new DW, I'd probably try a 3rd rack because, well, I'd just like to try it.

Maybe you want to go and try these racks with some cutlery in a store?


    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 8:45PM
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Neither the DLX nor the Classic have a water softener so that takes that out of the equation. If you are feeding the dishwasher hard water I would get one with the built-in water softener.

If noise is the main consideration then the DLX.

If the other considerations as a whole are more important then the Classic.

    Bookmark   August 8, 2013 at 12:11AM
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I've gotten to where I don't mind the 3rd rack in the wife's Miele any more. You can lay out a lot of flatware there. For me, it wouldn't be a must have, nor would it be a can't have. Not a choice in my remodel anyway, as the wife insisted on dishwasher drawers.

    Bookmark   August 8, 2013 at 12:28AM
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Have had the third rack since it! All the reasons mentioned are solid.

    Bookmark   August 8, 2013 at 7:03AM
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I really wanted the third rack (got the KA), but we had to take it out because there was no room for wineglasses or taller glasses on the "top" rack. I feel kind of stupid that I wasn't thinking that the space has to come from somewhere! After a couple of loads it was so annoying that we decided that although we can use the baskets for silverware, we have no alternatives for the glasses (which aren't even particularly tall), so we got rid of the rack. I'm disappointed, and wonder if anyone else has done the same thing.

    Bookmark   August 8, 2013 at 9:38PM
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The Miele I have has an adjustable 2nd rack to accommodate for taller items in it. I have not had a problem with wine glasses in my Miele like that, but I could see how it could be an issue if I didn't have the ability to adjust that 2nd rack up and down.


    Bookmark   August 8, 2013 at 10:26PM
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I have the Miele - also never heard of it when I went shopping and it was DH who really wanted the top rack.
You either sort going into the DW or going out - I do put them in neatly and just snag the whole bunch to go into the utensil drawer - so I pull all of one item out together - it is so fast!
I put tall wine glasses and pilsner glasses in the bottom or drop down the top rack as needed. Most of the time - I just put them in the bottom and don't worry about adjusting the racks.

    Bookmark   August 8, 2013 at 10:46PM
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One other thing to point out with the Miele is that since it is not heated you can put any thing any where in this unit. You don't to worry about putting say tupperware type things on the middle rack any longer. This gives you greater flexibility in loading up your unit to fit almost everything, at least that is something I have found.

And I too have put glasses on the bottom rack, but only as an overflow in most cases, I just forgot about that.


    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 9:39AM
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Would never buy a dishwasher without the third rack. Can't even imagine considering that.

We had 18 for dinner a few weeks ago. Friends "helping" to load the dishwasher weren't at all familiar with the cutlery tray or how to use it.

Here's what the top rack held. I took a photo because I'd never seen so much on there. Every single piece of cutlery came out perfectly clean.

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 2:35PM
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I don't have the upper 3rd rack - I did not want it because I like the ease of lifing out the basket with the handle to unload it right beside my cutlery drawers.

I also thought about not being able to put taller wine glasses, larger pots etc. on that top rack if there was a 3rd rack. I have a new KA DW and am very happy with it.

Very quiet, cleans well, I mostly use the one hour wash with the heated dry.

This post was edited by Caya26 on Fri, Aug 9, 13 at 14:55

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 2:53PM
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Cutlery explosion!

Speaking of racks, I hope Samsung will bring out their cutlery rack any time soon in the US. I like it: you lift it out of its holder and the tines holding the cutlery disappear so you can grab everything at once.

Here is a link that might be useful: Samsung Storm Wash⢠Dishwasher Demo Video

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 7:06PM
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I've had a Miele since about 2005 and wouldn't want to go back to no third rack. I bought a Bosch for my remodel, haven't used it yet, but third rack was a requirement for me. As much as I like the third rack, it's the space wasted on the bottom that I really hate with baskets.

Wine glasses are hand washed as a matter of course in this house (a habit I picked up from a wine snob friend) so I can't speak to that issue, but the middle rack can be lowered or they can go on the bottom.

This post was edited by foodonastump on Sat, Aug 10, 13 at 13:17

    Bookmark   August 10, 2013 at 1:16PM
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Rocco - ROFLOL - that is a riot.
I will have to post mine - it is perfectly organized in the slots ...

    Bookmark   August 10, 2013 at 2:05PM
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a2 - I laughed at that, too. I'm about as far as you can get from a neat, organized person but that loading job made me cringe! I'm sure it works just fine, but it's just "wrong" to me. My rack gets loaded with like utensils together just like they will end up in the drawer. Doesn't take more than a few seconds to do and most, not all, of those seconds are made up for on the back end.

    Bookmark   August 10, 2013 at 2:45PM
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Another question - this time about the tines. Is it true that tines with the little balls on the top will not scratch your dishes as tines without those little balls will?

    Bookmark   August 10, 2013 at 3:22PM
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We bought an 800 plus series Bosch with the cutlery tray and larger racks. Ours is also a paneled style. Love the cutlery tray and the unit overall. Miele are great units, so are the top end Bosch.

    Bookmark   August 11, 2013 at 3:12PM
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Connie K

We just purchased a Bosch 800 series dishwasher, because it was the only dishwasher we could find that offered the cutlery rack in a black appliance. Apparently, other companies have decided that the only consumers who would want this rack would be SS consumers.

We love the cutlery rack! We thought it might be more labor intensive to load, but it actually isn't. In fact, it almost seems easier, but I don't know how that could be logical. And the unloading is a breeze! I always hated unloading the utensils from a basket before. Speaking of baskets, we completely removed our basket, which gives us a lot more space on the bottom rack.

The utensils get sparkling clean. There is never any crude remaining on any piece, and we had issues with this on every other dishwasher we used.

After using our Bosch for a couple weeks, my husband said the third rack would be mandatory for every future DW we purchase.

Someone mentioned wine glasses not fitting, but that is not the case. Our wine glasses fit better in this dishwasher than the previous two Maytags we had.

An added bonus with the Bosch is that it is super quiet. Sometimes I check to be sure it is actually running because I can't hear it.

We are as happy with this Bosch as we were unhappy with our last Maytag that only lasted three years.

    Bookmark   August 11, 2013 at 8:35PM
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We went to look at the Bosch today. Whit and digging, since you both have the model we're looking at, perhaps you could explain something. The top rack (not the cutlery tray) has bumps on the right and left. It looked to me like REGULAR glasses wouldn't fit, let alone wine glasses. Can you explain, or maybe post another picture? Thanks.

    Bookmark   August 11, 2013 at 11:58PM
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I think you are talking about the flip-down stem supports for wine glasses. They work well, though we don't really use them. They are to support the glass's stem when upside down so the don't roll around while washing. This is from last night. Plenty of room for regular glasses and my cycling bottles!! We are amazed how clean everything comes out and that we can now place plastic items in it.

    Bookmark   August 12, 2013 at 6:15AM
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Connie K

I think you are referring to the unevenness along the bottom of the rack on the right and left. Since we ordered our Bosch, sight unseen, we didn't have the ability to evaluate the configuration with a fine tooth comb, and therefore never gave that a thought. We just started using it.

I agree. It doesn't look like the glasses will fit in there, but they do. I think the angles are designed to keep the glasses more secure...or else to make us think they have some new angle ( no pun intended) on design.

Wine glasses fit beautifully using the flip down tray on the right. I also fold down the tines on the right, and angle the wine glass so that the bottom fits in the flip down tray securely. When doing it this way, the wine glass ends up slightly encroaching in the center section of this rack, but we have very large wine glasses.

I also use the flip down rack to house any large cooking utensils that don't fit in the third rack.

Another great advantage of the third rack is that you can place those little items, like tiny plastic lids, that used to fly all over the place in the "old" style dishwasher, in there, and they remain secure.

    Bookmark   August 12, 2013 at 9:23AM
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Connie K

Watch the Samsung demo video upthread, and that will give you a good idea of how the glassware will fit in the Bosch.

Even though the Bosch doesn't have the removable tray, I can still grab all of the spoons, forks, or knives at once and place in the drawer. That's the beauty of it. No more putting your cutlery away one piece at a time.

    Bookmark   August 12, 2013 at 9:32AM
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Thanks all. Yes, I was referring to the unevenness of the bottom of the rack on the right and left, so glad to hear it works. Whit, that picture helps a lot. Thanks.

    Bookmark   August 12, 2013 at 11:45AM
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Here's a little game for y'all.

First, hit the little > (Los geht's) button and then drag and drop each glass into the dishwasher. Once the video has played, hit the >> (nächstes Glas einräumen) button to continue.


Here is a link that might be useful: Miele and Riedel Glass Care

    Bookmark   August 12, 2013 at 9:49PM
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