F and P dish drawer not always releasing the H20.

chinchetteJuly 15, 2010

I have two uppers. One works but the other does not always release all the water and there is smelly, dirty water on the bottom. It does not happen every single time, so I am not sure what the problem is. It used to work just fine so I think the installation was correct. Why would it sometimes work, sometimes not? They are 4 years old.

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dadoes

Actually, you have two single-drawer units. :-) They're bought as singles or doubles (like a 1-drawer or 2-drawer filing cabinet), not as uppers or lowers. A double-drawer unit cannot be physically split, nor can two singles be joined to create a double.

The water is not so much "released" as it's forcibly pumped out when the unit drains. The pump motor runs forward to recirculate water for washing/rinsing, reverses for drain. There are several fill and drain periods throughout the cycle sequence. If it's unable to drain, a fault code would normally be triggered. The controller can sense if the motor isn't turning one direction or the other, or if there's water left in the drawer when it should have drained.

Do you find water left immediately after a load of dishes is finished? Note that it's normal for a small puddle to be left in the kidney-shaped drain filter.

Or is there no water then, but it appears later? If this is the case, particularly since it's dirty/smelly water, you may be getting backflow from your sink through the drain hose, or from the other drawer depending on how the plumbing is routed.

Are the two units installed (left and right) beside your sink? Check under the sink for how the drain hoses are routed. Each one should loop up high as possible under the sink and then down to connect to the plumbing. The high loop prevents water from backflowing from the sink drain into the drawers (it would have to go uphill). Perhaps the hoses were installed with loops but not anchored properly and one has fallen or shifted.

There's also a flapper valve in the pump outlet on each drawer, which is supposed to help prevent backflow. The valve can wear or get stuck or clogged with food debris and not close.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2010 at 3:42PM
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chinchette

Thanks. I looked foward to your reply dadoes. I have two singles flanking the sink. I just tried a fast cycle and it emptied. I will see if tomorrow there is water in it. I suspect a clogged valve. Is that something we can DIY fix?

When there is water it is not a small puddle. Its an inch at least. It seems like the hoses are both looped as high as possible.

    Bookmark   July 17, 2010 at 12:01AM
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dadoes

The flap valve can be replaced DIY, but does require some disassembly. I haven't done that job, so can't give any specific tips on it. The thing is that if the drain hoses are high-looped properly such that backflow would have to travel uphill, the flap valve shouldn't much come into play.

Are your drain hoses connected to a countertop (or undercounter) airgap?

    Bookmark   July 17, 2010 at 1:37PM
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chinchette

Uh...I don't think we have an airgap. They are connected to a clip that is attached the the side of the cabinet near the countertop (up high). They are both clipped to that one clip on the right side.

    Bookmark   July 17, 2010 at 5:15PM
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chinchette

One question: the one on the left crosses the cabinet and is looped on the right side (high). Should it be looped on the left side somehow?

    Bookmark   July 19, 2010 at 10:15PM
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dadoes

Shouldn't matter, long as there's a loop.

Have you gotten water in the problematic drawer again?

Can you post a picture(s) of the drain hose arrangement? On PhotoBucket or some such free photo hosting service, link it here. Maybe the loop isn't high enough or there's some other contributing factor.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2010 at 11:30PM
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chinchette

My last two cycles went fine with no water on the bottom. Now I am wondering if it only does it when both are running. Not sure. I was surprised that two in a row went okay. I will try and get a photo.

    Bookmark   July 20, 2010 at 10:52PM
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dadoes

For comparison, this is how my hoses are run ... well, how they were run on the installation at my previous house. I moved the unit along to a new house several years ago, don't have a current pic but it's pretty much the same way.

The DD was installed on the left of the sink. The two drain hoses come through an opening at the cabinet base, loop high as possible, tied up with a wire at left rear corner anchor bolt of the sink, then down to the plumbing connection. Backflow through either hose would have to go uphill from the Y-connector, through the high loop, down to the cabinet base, then into the drawers. Highly unlikely that would happen.

    Bookmark   July 20, 2010 at 11:28PM
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chinchette

Hm. I don't think mine looks like that. I am having a hard time seeing it because of the garbage disposal in the way. I'll get a photo over the weekend.

New development: I observed a third load going through without leaving any H2O on the bottom. Left the clean dishes in the dish drawer over night. Today, I noticed that there was smelly murky water- about an inch, in the bottom.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2010 at 9:56PM
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dadoes

Mine is a double-drawer unit. There's one water line but each drawer has a separate drain hose. The Y-adapter is included to connect both drain hoses to a single plumbing point. Singles don't include the Y-adapter, so your installer likely would have used a different method if he didn't get a Y-adapter accessory from F&P.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2010 at 11:13PM
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chinchette

Okay. So if the water is coming in after the load, then what do we do?

    Bookmark   July 22, 2010 at 5:09AM
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dadoes

Trace down and correct whatever is causing the backflow. Check and adjust the positioning of your drain hoses.

If you don't have an air gap, you may need to install one just to solve this problem. This is a dual air gap designed for double-drawer units, but it would work just as well for your two singles. If you're not familiar with dishwasher air gaps, they install under the sink or countertop, with the chrome cover extending above (like a faucet handle on the sink).

Dual Air Gap Kit
Note that one more hose not shown in the picture is required for connecting from the bottom of the air gap to the sink plumbing.

    Bookmark   July 22, 2010 at 1:12PM
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chinchette

Thanks dadoes.

    Bookmark   July 23, 2010 at 6:38AM
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chinchette

Have not had a problem for a while now. I haven't run two at once though. Not sure why, but it is working now.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2010 at 12:34AM
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kiwinomad

I find the top draw stops mid cycle with a two pluse beep and a display on the LCD screen showing a tap with a line through it on opening the draw it is half ful with clean water. when you first start the cycle you can hear the pump run and it sounds like the water is draining away, have checked the drains and water supply filters as it sounded like a no water fault even though its half full...... any suggestions model DD60DCW6

    Bookmark   May 20, 2013 at 10:54PM
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