How did I miss this???

lavender_lassJune 28, 2012

Okay, I feel rather foolish, but I need to make a change to my plan. Someone just pointed out to me that the bathrooms are going to be over a crawl space, rather than the basement/cellar...which will make working on the plumbing more expensive and difficult. And, we have that hunta (sp?)virus in our area, so no one wants to even go under a crawl space anymore!

So, I'm wondering if I can switch the master bedroom and bathrooms. I like the walk-in closet, but it's not a must. What I'd really like (if I have to make this change, anyway) is to put a powder room, opposite the keeping room, just off the stairs. This would be so much easier for people just arriving and kids sleeping upstairs (which may not have a bathroom).

So, here's my plan (which I love) and what I'd like is a powder room, master bath and maybe hall bath (I know that's a lot, but there are no bathrooms upstairs or in the basement) and the master bedroom/closet. The current bathroom area could be bigger for a bedroom. Basically, even with the left (outside) study wall and the front of the current master suite. The bay window is not on the current house, so it doesn't have to stay in the plan. But, the wall between the current master bedroom and bath is an existing load bearing wall.

Thanks in advance! I finally work out the kitchen and porches...but we are close. I'm so ready to be done with the planning and move on to demo!!!

Update on current plan. Here's the picture that convinced me that a table would work better than an island, just in case you're wondering why there's furniture in front of the fireplace, again :) From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

And our overall plan... From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

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Lavender, I am not certain I understand your concern. It should be relatively easy to do the plumbing work in a crawl space, and experienced contractors shouldn't have an issue with it.

Do you have a GC already who you can talk to about this?

Your plan is perfect, and I don't think you should change it!

    Bookmark   June 29, 2012 at 12:48AM
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Laura- Thank you! I don't really want to change it, either. I was just told it would be much easier to install, repair and even keep the plumbing from freezing, if I could keep it over the cellar/basement.

We have a good friend who will probably be our GC, but this was someone else who knows a lot about building houses...but I can see why they're saying this. I just feel a bit, well (picture Homer Simpson...DOH!) for missing this, before. The house is so close to flat with the ground in the master bath area that we'd have to excavate quite a bit to get a decent crawl space under the toilet/tub/shower area.

I'm going to try sketching it and see if I like it. The one positive about all would be nice to somehow tuck a little powder room off the front hall, by the stairs.

Oh, and I took the time to look it up...and it's spelled hantavirus. Basically, if you sweep, vacuum or otherwise disturb and cause mouse droppings from an infected mouse to become can make you very sick or even kill you. Nasty stuff! Now, it's recommended you spray any droppings you find with Lysol and use wet paper towels to clean them up. So, a lot of companies don't like to go into crawlspaces anymore...unless they have respirators and other protection, which makes it more difficult to find anyone and a lot more expensive.

    Bookmark   June 29, 2012 at 10:28AM
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LL: what part of your plan is on the existing basement, and what part is over crawl space? Does the crawl space foundation exist yet or is it yet to be dug? (Can any exterior walls change?) If you could mark these on your layout that would be helpful. Maybe use a dotted outline in a different color for the existing basement.

    Bookmark   June 29, 2012 at 11:23AM
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The initial plumbing during building is not going to matter all that much sine there will be no floors or finished walls.

Repairs later can be a problem unless adequate head space is provided in the crawl (multiple feet under the bottom of the joists).

    Bookmark   June 29, 2012 at 12:22PM
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Chicagoans- Yes, the existing house is the master bedroom and closet, entry hall with stairs, kitchen/keeping room, and half the vestibule. Currently, the wall is even from the master suite across to the keeping room.

The bath is placed where we now have an old porch, but it's on cement slab. So, the master bedroom/closet and entry hall are the original house...over the old cellar (but you can stand up down there) and the kitchen/keeping room is the 1950's addition, which is built over a real basement. It even has a rec room with fireplace, under the fireplace in the keeping room.

Brickeyee- That's what our friend's the repairs that really call for more 'head room' so to speak. And, the current kitchen is where the closet and back of the bedroom are in the plan, so the plumbing is already in that space. So...why not use it?

    Bookmark   June 29, 2012 at 1:04PM
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You're overthinking this. Plumbing in a crawl space is not a big deal at all. Make sure there is sufficient head space and that the plumbing is properly insulated and you won't have any issues.

    Bookmark   June 29, 2012 at 1:37PM
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But aren't you going to have to dig for a crawlspace under the mud room, utility room and study anyhow? The mud and utility rooms also have plumbing and I can't imagine in your climate you would want to have living space over just a slab anyway.

I guess I am not understanding the problem with having to also dig a crawlspace for under the bathrooms? How else would you use this area? I can't imagine that it is an insulated slab.

    Bookmark   June 29, 2012 at 3:44PM
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I agree with GreenDesigns and Dekeoboe. I think your next step is to find contractors and/or GC who you are going to work with and discuss your plans with them.

    Bookmark   June 29, 2012 at 4:54PM
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I live in NC and hardly anyone has a basement or is mostly crawl space. I have never heard of future plumbing problems with a crawl space. I mean, sure it would be easier with a basement, but that is no reason to change your plan if you love it!

    Bookmark   June 29, 2012 at 6:05PM
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It's not just the head room (although that's important) but it's difficult to get anyone to go into a crawlspace, anymore. I guess the hantavirus hasn't caused the same problems in your area...but cable/satellite TV people won't do it at all, plumbers prefer not to...and if they do, it will cost a lot more. And, with the slight slope to our's just about even with the ground in front and 3' off the ground in back. So, the utility room (accessed from under the deck, which is more open and has better air circulation) is not as big a problem.

I'll check with some other people, but I wasn't surprised when we heard this...just surprised that I hadn't considered it, before now :(

Any ideas for bathrooms? I have a few...I'll see if I can make some improvements and post them later.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2012 at 1:12AM
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Here's what I've come up with, so far. The hall bath and closet are switched, as is the master bedroom and bath. The bedroom is larger than the bathroom area, since I moved the wall over and squared off that space. And, there's room for a small powder room, off the entry. From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

The laundry sink and window would scoot over (since the bedroom area is now even with the left wall of the study) and probably look like this, but as a laundry sink. The big farm sink will be going into the greenhouse. From Kitchen plans

And, while there's no window in the hall bath or powder room, there is a nice window for the tub and a small one for the master closet. I know it would be a smaller window, seat and closet, but still nice :) From Fairy tale cottage

    Bookmark   June 30, 2012 at 3:50PM
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After staring at this (during garden breaks) I've decided there should be a pocket door, between the sink and toilet/tub area in the master bath. Otherwise, I like it! Now, I've got to walk around our bathroom to check dimensions, to see if anything seems too tight.

I just realized...the closet is huge! :)

    Bookmark   June 30, 2012 at 8:58PM
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When I shrink these down, they never quite match...but here's an idea of what the bathrooms/bedroom would look like, with the rest of the house. The left wall of the closet/bedroom would be even with the study wall, so there would be room for a window over the sink, in the laundry room. From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

    Bookmark   June 30, 2012 at 10:39PM
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You still have the problem of sight lines from the front entry right straight into the powder room and Toilet.

Also, you have a large area of "wasted" space outside the hall bath that seems like it could be better utilized. I realize it is there to provide some separation, but it is powder room sized in and of itself.

Also, did you say why you want both the hall bath and a powder room on the main level?

    Bookmark   July 1, 2012 at 12:14AM
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"which will make working on the plumbing more expensive and difficult. And, we have that hunta (sp?)virus in our area, so no one wants to even go under a crawl space anymore!"

If you you were told that by more than one trained and licensed professional then redesign your plan. If you are just assuming it you are quite possibly causing yourself a lot of unnecessary trouble.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2012 at 8:39AM
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Renovator- I'm asking a few more professionals on Monday, but so far it sounds like bathrooms over the basement is going to be the concensus. Thank you for the response :)

Kirkhall- This is the same plan I had on the other thread...but I did see your comment and I made a few changes. Now, the hall bath is right off the hall and the powder room is set back a bit from the entry. What do you think?

And, the master bath no longer has the bay window...I moved that to the bedroom (I think it looks better on the facade) and have the tub in front of regular windows. Hopefully, this will be easier to clean, too! Little chair (for a towel and a book) by the tub and a small table/bookcase, behind the door. Across from the sink is an armoire. I love armoire storage and I've always wanted to use one in the bathroom. From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

Armoire...but I'd paint it all white...less shabby chic/peeling paint. From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

Another similar armoire with bathroom storage (but I like the mirror on the doors of the other one). From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

This is very blue, but I like the tub in front of the window. From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

    Bookmark   July 1, 2012 at 11:22AM
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This new layout looks better, but I am with kirkhall wondering about the need for a hall bathroom and a power room.

What is the plan for the chimney in the middle of the house? Are you completely getting rid of it? Because I don't see it reflected on this floor plan.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2012 at 12:57PM
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Dekeoboe- The little chimney is from an old cookstove that long since disappeared...probably in the 1920s.

The hall bath is for the study, mudroom, living room, etc. but it's a long walk from the greenhouse/sun porch to that hall bathroom. I'd like something a little closer, when I come in from gardening. And, it's nice to have a little powder room off the enty, when people first arrive...rather than having them wander around looking for the hall bath.

As Sarah Richardson pointed out, when she remodeled her farmhouse on HGTV, when it takes you an hour to get to someone's house, it's nice to know right where the powder room is :)

Also...we aren't planning to put a bathroom upstairs, so if the nieces/nephews end up staying overnight, it would be nice to have a bathroom closer to the stairs. And, I guess I like the idea, love pedestal sinks and don't really need all that walking around space in the master bath.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2012 at 1:48PM
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i like the switch myself. the bdrm is farther from the entry way, and you get your entry powder room which i agree is huge.
and if it were me i would keep the giant closet and add a washer and dryer in there. i now take clothes frm the waher or dryer and hang or fold them directly into their spot. no more laundry baskets or moving clothing from one room to another. next house i'll have a shower/laundry/closet combo!

    Bookmark   July 1, 2012 at 8:32PM
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This is cleaner; but I still think you can see the toilet of the hall bath from the entry way. A quick fix for that in this plan is to switch the location of the toilet and sink.

That way, the door, when partially open, blocks the toilet instead of blocking the sink and seeing the toilet.

If you need the toilet on that wall, then turn the bath 90* and put the toilet on the "bottom" left corner, and the sink on the upper left corner of the square space.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2012 at 8:46PM
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also i'd switch the master bath and closet so the bath has a window or maybe a door to the outside.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2012 at 9:38PM
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Fallingwaters- Thank you for the response. I like that the 'bed wall' is no longer against the entry, too. Cute idea about the laundry/closet/shower combo :)

Kirkhall- If I switch the sink and toilet (even if I turn them 90 degrees) won't it be too tight to have the door swing into the room? I thought I read somewhere that it's better to have the door opposite the sink in a smaller powder you have more clearance to get in and out. I don't want a pocket door there...or a door that swings out.

Seeing the toilet (briefly) as you enter, doesn't really bother me. If it does, I can close the door, but I want people to easily find the powder room. Besides, this is loosely (I emphasize loosely) based on a 1920's home, so showing off the plumbing would be in character...just like showing you had electricity and the new appliances. Out on the farm, many people in our area didn't receive electricity until the 1910s and 1920s :)

    Bookmark   July 1, 2012 at 11:53PM
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This is a little more to scale. The bump out area by the tub, is a window box on the outside of the house. And, again...that's an armoire across from the master bathroom sink, not a linen closet :) From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

    Bookmark   July 2, 2012 at 12:39PM
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Are you completely replacing the current addition on the left side of the house? I'm asking because your first thread showed the floor plan as though the addition was staying (it does not come out as far as the front of the house) but the latest floor plans does not show the bedroom set back.

Is the window by the tub going to be a high window? Because it is right on the front of the house near the front door.

What size doors are you planning to have? It does not look like there is enough room for a 36" pocket door in the master bathroom.

I just noticed the sink in the greenhouse. I seem to recall that the greenhouse is just going to be on a slab, since you can't dig too deep there due to the well. I also thought you said it would not be heated like the rest of the house. Won't there be a problem having running water out there during the winter?

    Bookmark   July 2, 2012 at 6:00PM
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Dekeoboe- All excellent questions! First, the addition where the bathrooms used to be is an old porch. It's on a cement slab, so it will have to be redone, anyway.

The window by the tub is not a high window, but it will have curtains/shade, etc. There's a window box drawn in, just as a possibility...but I like the larger window, since it's the only natural light in the space.

Door size...probably not 36". If we ever need more space, I'd take the wall down and have the bathroom completely open. It would make more sense if it needed to be more accessible.

The greenhouse/sun porch is not on a slab...there's too much slope from front to back in that area. We're hoping that it will be something between a crawlspace and porch...but we'll know more later. We're still getting an idea what can be done, but we might have baseboard heat (just to keep the plants from freezing in the winter) but the sink can be turned off, if necessary. There's plumbing in the basement on that same wall, for the bar (under the kitchen) so it should be easy enough to do.

    Bookmark   July 2, 2012 at 7:24PM
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