Non-Flammable Material Around BlueStar Rangetop?

wayhopJuly 12, 2013

Deleted

This post was edited by wayhop on Sun, Jul 14, 13 at 0:34

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deeageaux

There was quite a bit of discussion about the Bluestar "6 inch rule" a few years ago. It says a truly non-combustible material must cover the wall the range is positioned against down 6 " below the countertop line. Usually tile or SS sheet. If not the range needed to be 6" from the wall. Additionally the side trim of the rangetop needs to be at least 11/16" above the countertop.

Does not specify a countertop material. Most people now either ignore this specification or at least don't post about it.

A far greater percentage of the BS burner heat goes straight up.

In a sealed burner a greater percentage goes to the side toward the countertop.

IMO the butcher block would be safer with the Bluestar than with the Thermador.

    Bookmark   July 12, 2013 at 10:06PM
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deeageaux

Double post

This post was edited by deeageaux on Fri, Jul 12, 13 at 22:25

    Bookmark   July 12, 2013 at 10:23PM
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cookncarpenter

If I'm not mistaken, the 6"clearance is BEHIND the range on the splash, not the countertops. I have an RNB and the heat goes straight up, not out.

    Bookmark   July 12, 2013 at 11:28PM
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jwvideo

And here's yet another link confirming the above. This one has some photos linked by akchicago which might be the ones deeageaux was thinking of.

To summarize: the "six-inch rule" is for combustible REAR wall surfaces that rise VERTICALLY ABOVE the level of the stove-top WHEN used with the ISLAND TRIM (i.e., no riser vent/backsplash.).

You will get confused if you think of this as a "perimeter rule" that includes flat surfaces. The rule is only about VERTICAL surfaces, It only applies to the right and left sides if (a) you want to have your stove boxed into a cabinet alcove or (b) sink it below the level of adjacent countertops.

On your island installation, you won't have those issues unless you have your stove recessed below the level of the countertops or if you have a raised breakfast bar whose vertical rise butts directly up to the back of the stove. NOTE: you do have to have the island trim installed at the back of the stove in order for the ovens to vent properly and not cause issues with countertops.

Sorry for seeming to shout (i.e., putting things in caps), but I can't figure ut how to get italics or underlines here to give emphasis, and we have been down this particular road before. This same rule applies for virtually every other gas slide-in and gas rangetop. If you don't want to trust us --- and, hey, this is the internet :>) --- then call or e-mail Bluestar and ask them. (They apparently answer the phone and respond to e-mails.) Be specific. If you don't understand or cannot accept that they can explain what they wrote down, then isn't that a good sign that you should not buy their stove?

Here is a link that might be useful: Bluestar positioning with hoods

This post was edited by JWVideo on Sat, Jul 13, 13 at 12:01

    Bookmark   July 13, 2013 at 11:37AM
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deeageaux

JWVideo

Italics
......

but without the space inside the parentheses

For Underline change the "I" to "u".

    Bookmark   July 13, 2013 at 1:25PM
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wayhop

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This post was edited by wayhop on Sun, Jul 14, 13 at 0:29

    Bookmark   July 13, 2013 at 3:30PM
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cookncarpenter

To try and help clarify, the 6" minimum on the side in the diagram you are referring to, is to a vertical wall, or cabinet above the counter, not the counter material itself. The countertop material can be wood, as long as it is below the range.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2013 at 4:15PM
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deeageaux

Both my husband who is an electrical engineer and I looked at the diagram in the BlueStar installation manual and there is clearly a line showing 6" to flammable surface to the left of the burners. It is possible that the diagram is only applicable to flammable cabinets, but it is somewhat ambiguous which is why I asked.

I just saw the diagram you are referring to. It is for tall cabinets that are next to range or that sit on the countertop next to range. The cabinets must must be at least 6" away. Like this.

This would be incorrect. Cabinet right next to range.

Again this is not about the countertops.

Again I think the Bluestar would be safer than Thermador for the butcher block.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2013 at 4:30PM
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cookncarpenter

...and I was not yelling when I capitalized behind in my first post, but now thanks to dee, I learned a new trick ;)

    Bookmark   July 13, 2013 at 4:31PM
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cookncarpenter

also, I might add we went from a Thermador that served us well for 26 years, to a Bluestar...night and day

    Bookmark   July 13, 2013 at 4:38PM
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jwvideo

[Edited July 14, 2013 to add that the OP has deleted the post to which this responds.]

Wayhop:

I'm sorry you took my post as angry. It was not meant that way. I certainly did not mean to suggest that your question was stupid. Sometimes, what we write here comes across with a tone that was not intended. So, if you took my response as angry or hostile, please accept my apology because it certainly was not meant that way.

I was concerned that using the caps in my post might make it sound angry which is why I put in the comment that I didn't know how to make italics here. Now, thanks to deeageaux, I do. Except that it isn't yet working for me. Oh well, I'll get this figured out.

Anyway, when I refferred to yet another post, I was referring to the fact that others have been confused by Blue Star's instructions and that you are not the only one to have this question.

Mainly, I was just trying to get you see that there is a distinction between horizontal surfaces around a stove --- which aren't going to be exposed to open flames --- and adjacent vertical surfaces which are higher than the stovetop burners which means those surfaces potentially could be exposed to flames and heat from the burners. (Flames and heat don't drop down from burners. They go up, right?) So, I tried to reassure you that this would not be a problem with your island installation unless you did something that put vertical surfacrs right next to the burner top and had them rising above the burner level.

Here's another way to think about it. If you had to have non-combustible horizontal surfaces for six-inches around the stove, you would not be able to put it next to base cabinets, would you? That is certainly the case with commercial (restaurant) stoves. So, it is not a stupid question to think that this might be the case with Blue Star ranges because they do look like commercial stoves, after all. But they are, in fact, residential stoves. That means you can put the BS ranges right up against base cabinets just like you see in all the pictures. That is because it is a residential stove and is designed for that. If the base cabinets can butt-up against a BS stove, then doesn't it make sense that the countertops can do the same thing?

And, by the way, I hope you don't take my use of the abbrevation BS as signifying that I'm somehow accusing you of b***sh** because I am not. "BS" is a commony used abbreviation here for Blue Star. If we mean the other, its usually done with a lowercase "bs." Okay?

I mentioned that there are other sources where you can get confirmation of this. The post I linked to has quotations from the Blue Star manual about the specific issue that you raised here. Those might be be helpful to you in figuring out what we've been talking about and figuring out what Blue Star means by its arrows. I mainly gave you the link because I thought the photos in it might be the ones that deeageaux mentioned but could not find. No anger or insult was intended or directed at you or anybody else. Again, I'm sorry you took it that way.

And to respond directly to your question about the line on the install diagram, I don't disagree that it can be confusing. You are not the first to get confused by BS's instructions. That's why we've had other threads on this topic.

Now, I certainly do agree with what deeageaux and others have been saying --- that the line on that diagram is supposed to represent a measurement to an adjacent vertical object. It is supposed to be pointing to the wall/cabinet and not to the horizontal countertops below the line.

The difference between a "wood wall" and a "butcher-block" countertop is that the top of countertop is at or below the stove stop where the flames don't flare at it (at least they don't if the stove is working as they normally do.) The wood wall or cabinet sides are above it and therefore potentially exposed to flames and heat if they are too close to the stove. As shown in Deeageaux's photos, you avoid the problem with the vertical surfaces by either putting those surfaces 6" out from the stove --- and again, please don't think I'm trying to confuse you here, because I'm still talking about the walls and cabinets that are above the counter, not the counter itself --- or else you sheath the vertical surfaces with a non-combustible covering like tile, metal, etc. Do you see the difference?

In answer to you next question, the "6-inch to wall" rule is "not necessary" when you are putting the stove in an island --- because, as you say, there are no walls. Just so nobdy who reads this later gets confused by what I just said, the "6-inch to wall" rule is necessary if you want to put a stove with island trim or or a cooktop with island trim close to a wall or other cabinets, such as is shown in the photos that Deeageaux posted above. The rule is "not necessary" when you you replace the "island trim" with one of Blue Star's riser/vent/backguards. But, again, Blue Star is only talking about vertical surfaces that are above the level of thee countertop adjacent to the stove. It is not requiring 6" sheathing on the countertop.

Have the photos that Deeageaux provided cleared this up for you?

If not, I'm going to again suggest you call or e-mail Blue Star and asking them this directly. My comment about this was serious. The point is this: if they can't communicate with you in a way you understand and find credible, that is a good reason to not buy their products. I'm not limiting this to Blue Star, either, but the company does respond to inquiries, at least according to other posts, here. So, if you really like their stove, then I think it is worth your while to do this.

Is that clear enough?

This post was edited by JWVideo on Sun, Jul 14, 13 at 13:17

    Bookmark   July 13, 2013 at 8:53PM
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ak0402

JWVideo - FWIW, I didn't think your post sounded angry whatsoever. You've taken a lot of time to write two lengthy posts and supplied a link, in response to the OP's question. You answered the OP's question, but unfortunately the OP, instead of thanking you for your wise advice and tons of info and amount of time you took to help her, chastised you for an entirely imagined slight.

You are very knowledgable and generous; I always learn something from your posts.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2013 at 11:52PM
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jwvideo

Thanks for the compliments.

Also, I see the "angry" post has been deleted. Hopefully she now understands that she wasn't beng flamed.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2013 at 5:10AM
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deeageaux

Why delete the original post?

    Bookmark   July 14, 2013 at 5:13AM
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jwvideo

Dunno, Seems like an over-reaction. I thought it was helpful to see where she was getting led astray by the BS instructions..

    Bookmark   July 14, 2013 at 1:14PM
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deeageaux

I feel like a neighbor asked me to come over and help her assemble an Ikea coffee table.

And when I show up she slams the door in my face. LOL

    Bookmark   July 14, 2013 at 6:14PM
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ak0402

Deeageaux - you asked, why delete the original post? I guess it was easier for her to do that than to be polite and follow up. To use your analogy: she asked you to come over, you showed up, but instead of slamming the door in your face, she pretended not to be home.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2013 at 1:18AM
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