The only changes I see are:
Slide kitchen up to align with the pantry and shave off 1" for additional screened porch area.
Shave off 2" from side entry to create a larger porch.
Please share your thoughts.
For those not familiar with my plan the photo album is attached. We are adding to the back of our small, outgrown (groan:) log cabin to accommodate our family of 4. The existing home is the bottom portion of the drawing (36'x24'structure plus covered deck.
Here is a link that might be useful: Existing Cabin Album
I have a few thoughts:
1. How deep is your front entry? It looks very, very shallow. Also, your front door and closet door hit each other.
2. I would want to wall off the playroom because mine would always be a mess! :^)
3. If you are going to entertain guests in the kitchen/living room area, they will have to walk through your mudroom area to get back there. It just seems a little awkward.
I think it still has the sense of two separate houses because of the relative lack of connection between the house and addition. Is the house subject to setbacks? Is there any reason the addition can't be offset somewhere in the Girl's room to kitchen wall section of the house to get a more "connected" transition between the two parts?
Thanks for your time. 1. Front entry and closet are existing the addition portion starts at the end of the vaulted area, laundry(our current laundry and kitchen) and the boy's room. The playroom area-we may keep the wall and door but it's clean, cubbies, shelves,...my kids are 5 and 8 and play mostly with an ipad. Everyone who visits uses the back door unless we catch them on the way in via my barking dog;). I am trying to use the side room as the entry. The mud area will be a church pew bench and some schoolhouse coat hooks. I was trying to get a butlers pantry (mini fridge and coffee maker small sink) to better connect to the vaulted living room as I think it will still be my favorite spot and keep a dining table in there, Not sure if this changes any of your thoughts as I am trying to look at this in it's entirety too but some things we can't change.
3. Yes, it may be awkward. I was trying to keep a screened dining area off the kitchen but I don't know if eliminating it for a better back door entryway would be better.
Palimpsest, I had originally wanted more of a dog trot style but lack the sq ftage and funds to do this so yes, I'd like to find a happy space between disconnect and seamless. We can't add on to the left of the existing home due to septic and hvac but we can add on to the left of the addition. The driveway is on the right so we only have room to the rear left and back of our current cabin. I'm not sure what "offset somewhere in the Girl's room to kitchen wall section means but this portion is all new build so yes, anywhere you see the outside dimensions noted on the prelim are subject to change.
Do you think it would be more connected if I shaved off the entryway cabinets and closet and made it more linear (walk from kitchen to vaulted) as it he a small jog to accommodate the island (10'). Any thought on how to improve it given the circumstances? On a side note, I am treating the exteriors as separate entities, keeping the stockade style log exterior on the cabin and the new a white or grayish exterior in lap or hardieboard with a metal roof over the whole.
I think a straighter shot between kitchen and dining would be my preference. But I think that would be better suited to how our family lives. Somthing in the kitchen seems off, but I can't put my finger on it. The pantry with the narrow alley like entry seems strange but thats not a big deal, i.e. fixable.
What are the windows across from the island? 5' or 6' or shorter? Just curious. I love looking out my kitchen windows while doing dishes. My chickens are out there and our pasture so I have something fun to watch. New house will have sink at windows and prep sink in island.
Have you considered turning the island? May not be feasible but in our family we watch a game and entertain while eating at the counter. Similar layout but with it turned you can see the living area without leaving kitchen to eat.
I do like the master closet/bath orientation to each other.
Have you laid out furniture in the Living room? I only ask because the double doors at the end will take up... maybe 6' plus the 1-2' to the left of them creates a walkway of about 7-8 feet. If the couch is in front of that area is there wasted space behind it? Is there a chair in the middle of the rear wall angled toward the fireplace? Will the double door be opened frequently and will that be in the way? Where is the TV going? Over fireplace? The windows on either side of fireplace... does that face west?(I missed the orientation) if it does window treatments for late day sun might be needed... make sure there is enough room.
Will there be any more windows in the master? I know it will make it hard for furniture placement but what about two on left wall (across from door) Placed on either side to span the bed. Over the nightstands? Would allow for more light. (I'm a sucker for light). Also will you use doors in your master? There was a debate the other day if it was necessary. Seemed to be if there was a hot tub or pool it was used regularly if not... early trips to kitchen for coffee made sitting on porch utilize different doors. Just something to think about.
This started as one thought... but somehow snowballed.
I love that you are adding on and keeping the existing structure true to itself.
Who will be coming in the house through which entrance? Who will be using the front door?
Jennybc, Thank you! For orientation the windows on the kitchen side will be long/tall windows ceiling height is 10' there, while probably 9' in bedrooms/bath side. They will be similar to my front porch windows in scale. Unfortunately, view of the driveway but we really want to let light in here, 6'-8' window length. No cabinets on range side. Full antique doors for pantry cabinets on pantry wall. Yes, the island works better for me turned but my husband is dead set on the parallel set-up (combined with my 10' island requirement this is more of a choose your battles rather than asking the other to compromise. We found out from our previous home renovations that we'd prefer to have elements we love rather tan the constant reminder of "I wish...." ). I will have him read your take on it:). We have not gotten to furniture layout yet. I'm inclined to do 2 sets of doors so we have some flexibility as to which we use. On the bedroom the bed wall will have high windows but I am trying to see if I can move the bath door so we can move the bed too (king size). On the doors for the master, we are hoping to have a pool but with the high costs of materials now we may have to wait on it so it maybe just a hot tub. I also want 14' of screened patio off the back, not porch. Thank you for your time and thoughts.
Palimpsest, we only have friends visit or pick ups for kids rides so friends will use the side, as they use the back now. Pick ups will use the front porch as we have plenty of driveway to see them coming:).
I would want the side entry to be a bit more formalized then even though it's the family entrance.
Right now its a mudroom and an adjacent laundry room, and I dunno, but I would not always want to walk into what could turn into a giant close, and then proceed into the rest of the house.
I think the best mudrooms are areas you can bypass sometimes. It's there but off to the side.
What if the girls room and the boys room occupied the old house and the laundry/mudroom/larger pantry occupied the area that is labeled the girl's room. Then the entry could be more of an entry. And, you would be able to get a straighter access to between parts of the house.
It would probably require reworking the existing bath down by the boys room too.
I'm good with the lack of formality, my home is more rustic and honestly I was trying to get it close to the mudroom and laundry. The room labeled playroom is my daughter's room now and it's too small (9 1/2'x11' tiny closet with hvac chase in it). For the mudroom/laundry yes this will be a closet area on the right for us. The guests will use the hooks and bench/pew as I think hanging stuff will drive me crazy as I pass through. The beverage station would be turned 90 degrees to run parallel with the bench and door open to the hall. I want kids to be able to come in and grab drinks without tracking through the house. Do you think having the beverage function in it makes it seem too utilitarian. I could do just an empty area or hutch for my dishes. I think the disconnect for me is having my dining area in the vaulted living space but not sure if we'll use it much. It's mostly for crafting activities.
I totally understand your perspective but I think I'll be good on the entryway once I shave off the closet, 2' converts to screened porch and we can craft and eat out there. I also do more than normal share of laundry as my crafting is working with fabrics. (Crocheting baskets from washed sheets). So, I want it very close but in a dedicated room I can close off (it's currently in he kitchen) and requires me to move my giant leaf and yard containers of sheets and clothing upstairs when we have guests or it'd be in the kitchen.
Okay. I do like how this is coming, but I am in agreement that right now, the mudroom is the center of your house. That seems strange.
What if you took the cubbies and closet that makes up the mudroom square and ...
Well, I need a few more answers first...
Is the girls'/hall bath a current bath? If I recall, the laundry is your current kitchen? Trying to remember...
What I am thinking... is to put the hall bath in the location of the girl's closet and move the closet to the pantry/bath area, and have a full wall of pantry/built in cabinets facing the kitchen there (or have a pantry with door, if you prefer). Then, take the cubbies or what would be occupying the cubbies and move that to the laundry area.
I think in one way or another, you need to tuck your mudroom out of sight. Even if it isn't out of sight, it really should be out of the very center of the house. You won't want the mud, pine needles, etc to be tracked into the kitchen everytime one of your kids comes from the old section of the house to the new section.
So, to me, that mid-section is where we need to focus some changes to.
I need to study your previous layouts a bit more, and get back to you. But, can you let me know if moving the hall bath to the closet area is out of the question? (would also allow a window).
And... remind me why we nixed having your son's room in "front" with the playroom between the 2 kids' rooms?
I am envisioning naked boy running from shower to room... I know you are in the country, but I think putting the more open playroom between the 2 makes a little more sense (for supervision too...) So, I am thinking there was a reason...
Thank you so. Yes, the front playroom is currently my daughter's room and is too small at 9ish x 11. I asked my husband if we could just give my son that room and have the middle the play/walk thru room, he doesn't think it's fair.
The laundry is the current kitchen and that is our exterior wall currently so the bathroom could be moved, also the closet or anything above the boys/laundry/vaulted line. The dimensions on the drawing are the to-be built areas. (Hope that makes sense).
The entryway is just a bench and hooks but I want that aesthetic or a butler pantry type area to make a better connection to the screened deck(side).
I'm wanting to shave off 2' from the entry, 86 the closet at the entry and move th pew/bench to the exterior wall. I think with my kitchen size and the fact that we cannot build out into the driveway we will have to have either the jog as shown or take space from the laundry to align but then turn into the vaulted area.
On the bedroom, I need to move the door to the closet area. I'd like it to align with the seating allowance at the counter height island for optimal living room wall space.
I greatly appreciate your assistance, I wanted to start ASAP but feel like I need this weekend to improve it and try to reduce sqftage.
I also want to shave 1' from the kitchen to add to the changes so the cooks walkway aligns with the pantry.
Thank you all again!
Yes, we are wooded...so much so we are bearly visible from the road and even though it's only 11/2 acres we cannot see any neighbors.
Need to add windows on the MB left wall, not sure why they're not there. I'll try to work on these changes and play some more with the areas you mentioned.
Okay, I get that the bedroom is currently 99sq ft (not too small, just small.) But, that is without the hall, right? What if you let that be a bedroom suite? (then, it won't be "fair" because one has an attached bath and the other doesn't)... I don't know, life isn't fair.
It would open up more options and better flow to consider that as a realistic possibility.
I will try to draw something up today or tomorrow and scan and post, but see if your DH can entertain the idea of "unfair" space for a better overall flow. 9x11 is still a very good size, but 11x12 (hallway inclusive) is more comparable and gets rid of the 2 door scenario which makes a room effectively smaller than a footprint would indicate...
Move. Or redo the driveway to open up the possibilities more on that side of the house. There are too many constraints in trying to make this look like an addition actually belongs to it. You might as well make it over into a casita and build a whole other house behind it as to try to make it match up in spirit to the space and style of the original home. It will always look like an addition. And two separate houses.
Hollysprings, thanks for your honesty , you are consistent. I would love to be able to afford to have done a dogtrot, not in the budget. I know, it doesn't make sense to you but 11/2 secluded acres with no visible neighbors in this elementary, middle and high school is simply not available. We *want* it to look like an addition. I hope you could add something to make it a better flowing (terms of floorplan) addition. We love our modest front elevation and cabin but we simply need more space and in order to afford quality materials we need to work with some constraints.
Sadly, I have talked to my husband, even thought about adding another "too small" room to mirror. HVAC is located there too in the small hallway across from the bedroom. Not sure what It would take/cost to have it moved, just figured it was an obstacle. We will probably keep the wall for structural integrity. Same reason the boy's room door is where the window is, along with the laundry room winow/door and vaulted living room door/backdoor. On a side note I might use the too small space if we need to care for an elderly relative. We do have a master upstairs that could serve as a playroom too with additional beds but at this age, 5 &8 thu prefer to be near us. Like all things tht will change sadly. We did consider doing the whole left as MB then adding only the kids rooms but feel like we are missing an opportunity. We did have one rendition that was done on one of our prelim postings here by a webber favorite who should really publish their software package that did something similar but incorporated the front porch too-we just didn't like the unknown factors for required headers on an already low ceiling (7'8" height in left starting just after the stairs and the current kitchen/new laundry. I'll try to rework those areas you mentioned earlier and repost along with the mentioned space shaving changes.
This post was edited by houseofsticks on Fri, Jun 14, 13 at 19:55
So, you think that wall separating that room and the hallway is a structural wall? Is it a shear wall? I'd think, with the direction of your roofline, that it'd be free of structural limitations.
How will you heat/cool the addition? Maybe you'll want your central hvac location changed a bit... Surely you'll either need a second system or a larger system either way (you'll be buying something new).
I feel like most of what we have is structural but that may not be the case. The structural engineer said we had to support anything we removed. He may have just been paying it safe. I think I'm nervous to even do the cuts from window to door entry. Also, we are trying to live in it while we add. I think it's just so much unknown. I do know we are on 2x4's upstairs and the creaking and cracking make me nervous now. I can move the laundry room wall over to the left to line up but that's where the vaulted ends and the low ceiling begins so we are adding a pole to support the loft (and pier w/tiger paw). So unless we did a walkway of 3' it would look wonky too.
We will use a new and separate HVAC unit on a different zone for the new portion. We are keeping the old, same with our electrical.
This post was edited by houseofsticks on Fri, Jun 14, 13 at 23:39
I don't mean that the entry has to be "formal" in the strict sense of the word. But essentially every person who walks into this house is going to be entering through a utility area. It's like having to enter a nice house through a basement. Whatever the rest of the house is, coming in through the basement has already set the mood. There are studies and discussions in architecture and design on the psychological aspects of the "sense of entry" into a house, and the way yours is set up has the potential to be crowded and cluttered and that isn't setting up any sort of welcome into the house at all --either for you on a daily basis or anyone else. I really think that area needs to be rethought. It can all be in proximity without being thrust in everyone's face.
Palimpsest, I understand. I really want to keep a bench, hooks and I bought some old windows to refinish and mount above, along with a hanging lantern light. Is it these items that make it seem mudroom. I am removing the closet there. If I 86ed the beverage/coffee station and just had it open or is it the architecture that does it for you? My alignment from vaulted to kitchen is less than ideal but I really want the larger kitchen. I also do not have anyone other than great friends and neighbors over. Maybe that will change with a "nicer" larger space for guests. I dislike my front entry because it is tight. I am a big coffee fan too and just wanted it closer to the vaulted and off the countertop in the kitchen. We would use the laundry rack and shelves for daily use. Please let me know if you can think of a way to improve any of this. It's difficult for me as it's so much better than what I have now.
I am stuck. I hoped to have a well written, concise plan and changes, but I can't seem to rework this properly. On a side note the ipad is not doing wonders for my grammar.
Here's what I like about this:
Pantry-can be enlarged.
Side porch- once enlarged to 9'x10' I *think* it will be large enough for a table and chairs as well as pathway to the side entry.
Kids rooms proximity of living.
Side entry for friends entrance.
Orientation of the girls/common area bathroom. I'd prefer a long wall entry door, so I might need more space to turn it 90 degrees.
Master Bedroom door location, I 'd like it in between the island and start of living area wall. As is it seems to divide the space in appropriate furniture location.
Master bedroom bath still seems too large althought we want a two person shower. I am willing to sacrifice closet for both pantry and possibly a booth or recessed fridge on the left side wall.
I feel like I have incorporated most of the problem/solutions we found with my other plans like keeping private spaces on the left and public on the right for better separation.
Eliminating the utility area of the side entry for a cleaner approach to the home.
Anyone else have ideas/room for improvements or a better layout option for the problem areas without altering the original structure? Thank you for your time.
What about making the original structure the master suite and just constructing a whole other building for the rest of the space, maybe at a cross gable to the original. It's not going to be integrated into the whole anyway, so emphasize that by having the connection area between the two be a "breezeway" or even a laundry/utility area. The new structure can have a prominent enough designed entry to lead people to coming into it, and can be structured as a two story so again, it's more prominent as the main residence.
GD has a good idea. Right now your LR is really disconnected and really probably won't be used. It is already to the side of things, so if you made it the master, it wouldn't feel out of place... Masters are supposed to be to the side. You can utilize your kitchen plumbing for your master bath plumbing. The front bathroom that you are trying to salvage in place (is really throwing you off, but) can be kept as a suite bathroom for the bedroom that you keep in that corner.
Start with that basis and work the back as your new space, with a real entry that is treated as an entry.
Using the current LR as Master means you don't need all that room in the back as master, and you can probably have larger better public spaces by the time you are done for the same cost.
That's what I was thinking too, master suite and maybe boy's bedroom occupying the old house and the new house mostly living spaces. That way the disconnect between the two buildings would be more functional.
I know it's not on the plan but it's a story and a half. The current MB is upstairs. If I'm reading it right I have 3 votes for using it all as bedroom(s). I will ask my husband but, I can't imagine a guest staying and walking thru the MB to get upstairs. It would eliminate the playroom, but we'd still need 2 living rooms, a guest bedroom, 2 baths, kitchen and dining. My first reaction is disappointment that I couldn't/wouldn't still sit with my friends in the vaulted as it's my most favorite spot ever. That and being mortified that someone may come to the front, my bedroom an knock. We also would miss the opportunity to do an outdoor shower and screened patio off the master if it were in front. I'll talk to my husband and think on this, but with 3 votes I may be just missing something because I love the vaulted so much for visitors.
Maybe you should put this particular solution aside and start with a blank page again and see what else presents itself
What if the kitchen was put on the opposite side of the vaulted LR/DR in the existing house and there was a large living dining space in the new section with the bedrooms beyond that? Does that eliminate the possibility of a porch?
Why are you keeping the kid's bedrooms downstairs? Why can't there be a second floor on the addition? I think part of the problem is that the footprint is getting so big because of it all being on one floor except for the existing bedrooms in the old part upstairs.
True for that too.
We added on a 2 story addition to our story and a 1/2 house, in a perpendicular direction to the main house. What this did for us was cut down on the costly foundation work (and roof trusses). Because our house has a steep roof pitch (12/12) the 2 story addition was able to meet the roof peak and not be higher, but then had a lesser pitched roof...
I am not sure I am describing it well.
Anyway, from the front of the house you still see the charm of our cape cod style house, while giving us much more room on the upper floor compared to the lower floor since we gained all the additional eave space...
Also, can you turn your stairs? Can they be made into a U shape so they originate near where your kitchen was and you won't have to have people "walk through the master to get upstairs"? I guess I was thinking, if it was going to be vaulted space, you wouldn't have anything over the "new master". Where is your current master?
Let's all start over. Repost your graphs of your current house (1) and your driveway layout (2). Maybe we can get Nick or Bevangel to throw something out there that is outside your box...
I will post the pics again when I get home. Thank you for your time, efforts and response.
Palimpsest, we only have 7'8" ceiling height on the left 1/2 of the house, underwhelming for a public space.
Why not 2nd story for the addition? We did plans had a structural engineer,...
It is much more expensive, this surprised me. My contractor is not as comfortable doing a 2 story as a one story but I am sure it is not just a PITA fee since we are on good terms, I am so pleasant to deal with, lol, and well the one time fee structural engineer said this as well. It requires temp and permanent support. Also, you'd see roof and peak from the front, the front fireplace could no longer be used as the new roof would be higher. We could switch it out for gas but we are frugal and have an abundance of free wood. I'd rather not alter the stairs or much of the original home since we will be living in it and we are trying to get as much bang for our buck in use, I realize it might not be necessarily square footage.
We could do a step up or down but I really wanted all of us on the same level. My MB and small bath are upstairs but, I sleep in the Boy's room with my son (5 yrs....oi vey). Daughter also has night terrors which are harmless as she doesn't remember them in the morning, but with out me close by or video cam could be down the street while sleep walking. I was told she'd probably out grow and is fine, well fantastic, otherwise.
I do see where we have some possibly wasted space. The playroom could go but I'd rather the friends not hang out in the bedrooms if they aren't boy/boy, girl/girl.
The cabin sits up on a hill with the driveway to the right and HVAC, septic and gas lines on the left. We are able to add on to the back left, straight back and just slightly to the right (approx 2ish') before we hit concrete driveway.
Here's the layout of the first floor:
The upper level houses the small public loft, and doored entry to the bath (tub no shower due to roof slope), closet, and Master Bedroom (131/2' x 16' of usable walking space then just storage knee walled area.
Ceiling height of the vaulted is 21' this is our dining and living room.
Ceiling height of the rest of the lower level is 7'8" includes: bedrooms downstairs, halls, bath, and kitchen/laundry room.
Here's some visuals:
Front from side driveway area:
Here is a link that might be useful: interior slideshow
So, would you be surprised to hear, we have almost the exact same exterior dimensions (well, before we added on)?
I'll play with this some, but it will take me a while. Tomorrow is our last day of school--1/2 day and then a birthday party for my daughter...
Thanks Kirkhall, yes, your home seemed bigger, everyone's home seems bigger;). Yeah, last day of school, the end of an era. Have a fantastic birthday party! I look forward to one day having them in my home.
Sorry, deleted my last rendition, didn't intend to bump my own post.
This post was edited by houseofsticks on Thu, Jun 20, 13 at 1:52
(Actually, your dimensions make your house larger than mine started out... Though, your ceiling heights might be lower. I have to measure my ceilings.)
I'm fine with them being bedrooms where they are low (and bath and laundry). But it makes it so we have to have all new rooms, rather than straddle between roofs and not sure on header sizes so that's why we are trying to use the window locations for openings to the new. Ouch, smaller? That is tough with kids and all the stuff that comes with them.
Your cabin is charming! I wouldn't change a thing in the original living/dining room and loft. I would take out the kitchen and square off the space...or add french doors and make that the play room.
Since the driveway is on the right side of the house...have you considered 'flipping' the kitchen/family area and master bedroom? I'd rather have the driveway off the closet/bath and the view off the kitchen/family room.
Then, you could put the screened porch on the left side and have easy access to the kitchen...and great views out the back of the house.
As for the kids' rooms, I think they work well as is, but if you need a bedroom closer to the master...then I'd put it in between the living/dining and master area (as you have it now) but eventually turn that into a guest room/study.
Can the kids go upstairs, eventually? That loft would make a great bedroom or playroom area :)
Thanks Lavender! Where would you put the laundry if I use the 8x9' area as playroom and what would you use the one currently labeled as playroom as in your split bedroom plan? I have one rendition (my own that is what you described) but I'll look at it again. I think it put the kitchen in a different orientation ( not facing the living room) but I'll look it over again as I like the idea of same level but separate. The patio would then face the smallest space of yard, yes it's best now but I'd like a pool...somewhere, so I'll look at it again.
This post was edited by houseofsticks on Thu, Jun 20, 13 at 22:01
Kept seeing the posts in my email about the current size and had to go back and look. It's about the size we are in now (the old farmhouse)!! Except no upstairs area. About 860 sq ft for a family of 4 with two being 2 and 5.
The toys are choking me out...
At least the new house is in progress.... The light at the end of the tunnel.
Ok Hollysprings, if we cut into the driveway,.....? Any suggestions, other than a total saddle roof on the side?
Lavender, I tried the plan with MB on the right. I think I'm too used to living on the right during the day. It just doesn't feel right. The kids can go upstairs I may use it as toy space and keep a twin or two for guests and my husband when he has to work nights. The one railing is too scary for me to have them sleeping without one of us up there.
Jennybc, love your plan! Yes, I'm familiar with stifling toys;) you will really appreciate your new space.