High End Appliances Pricing

timwalker69July 8, 2007

LAst year I read about some of the internet sites that don't openly display pricing of SZ/WOlf etc, unless you colo in the page. Can anyone find that artile or know which websites may offer this pricing.

Thanks, TIm in Houston

PS Also looking for Bluestar 48" all gas pricing (6 burners and griddle)

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Here's a thread about that - but it sounds like it doesn't work anymore.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pricing Thread

    Bookmark   July 8, 2007 at 9:09AM
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I've read that the only place that displayed Wolf pricing no longer does, so I can't help you on the internet. You're not going to see published proces on a lot of the higher end equipment, but if you give a shop a list of what you are looking at, they will generally be pretty good about giving you the pricing -- even by phone, fax or email. If you're just trying to figure out if something is in your range, they will understand. You might also be able to search here and find some pricing discussion.

I found that, other than one or two places that might offer builder pricing on package deals, you're going to see pretty much the same prices. One exception is something totally new nd different. The example I have in mind was the Subzero Pro 48. We weren't looking at is as a choice so much as out of curiosity. I'm straining my memory here, but I think we heard $11-12,000. Some folks were posting here that they were seeing as high as $15,000. Like a new car model, when people stand in line to get the latest, they may pay a premium.

The Bluestar distributor here is Texas Sales & Marketing. Chuck Jr. is the guy I talked to. They are also the distrbutor for Perlick and were the only place we could see them. I saw several Bluestars at a show, and I believe thay have a 48" floor model you can look at.

I don't know who is retailing Bluestar here, but I know TSM was talking to K&N Builder Supply, among others. K&N has the full Subzero/Wolf line and most of you other players too. They are a builder supply and you may be able to get a bit of a break if you are doing a whole package. Doesn't hurt to ask. You can call for pricing, but they are only open M-F. They met or beat any appliance price I was quoted (they came back higher only on one item, and it was something they didn't normally carry at the time. They adjusted that price to match the other quote I had on it.)

Factory Builder also carries the SZ/Wolf line, but I found them more difficult to deal with. We got the sense that our cabinet bid was influenced by our mailing address, they played games and were not forth coming about builder discounts, and the level on information we got on appliances varied quite a bit with the person we talked to. If you are dealing with a builder or contractor they do a lot of work with, your experience might be different.

KIVA/AABC Appliance was another good place to look. I liked them, and if I hadn't been getting cabinets through K&N, I probably would have ordered appliances through them. They were knowledgable and very down to earth, no pressure. I was looking at their Conroe location.

Hope that helps.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2007 at 1:31PM
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I know Wolf sets a minimum price that the retailers can sell a Wolf range for. Has anyone got the retailer to throw in a Kitchen Aid, Bosch, or Frigidaire, or some other brand, dishwasher, or refrigerator if they buy a Wolf range?

    Bookmark   July 8, 2007 at 2:15PM
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Uhm... I threw in a bake stone I had laying around once.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2007 at 3:08PM
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Bob411 - I have never heard of any store "throwing in" a dishwasher or refrigerator if you buy a Wolf range. That's a thousand-to-two-thousand dollar freebie you are asking about. Wolf is not hurting for sales. The freebies you might possibly get, depending on your region, are free installation, or another year added to your warranty, perhaps professional-style cookie sheets, or maybe a disposal if the store is being generous. But a free Bosch dishwasher or free Kitchenaid fridge? Uh, no.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2007 at 3:25PM
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Maybe a $200 disposal? Or free delivery, or no sales tax?

    Bookmark   July 8, 2007 at 5:06PM
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FG - I cannot imagine any dealer that has a customer good enough to risk the ire of the state and federal tax authorities by not charging what's due.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2007 at 9:10PM
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Believe it or not, we faxed our list to Home Expo (if in your area), and their prices were the best of anyone's when they have their 10% off appliance sale. It might be worth a try.


    Bookmark   July 8, 2007 at 9:41PM
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Antss, retailers do the "no sales tax" sales events all the time. They just consider the sales tax percentage as a discount or advertising or cost of sales. Of course, they pay the taxes. Duh.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2007 at 10:07PM
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OK...I'm going to put this out there, and I'd ask that none of you flames me back...I know this is a rather unorthodox way to get a good price on stuff. That said, it's an approach I used, mainly because I wanted to be sure I wasn't going to miss an opportunity. Some readers here may find this beneficial, and others may already know it.

Well, here goes, I'm going to lay this out in a step-by-step fashion...

1 - Determine whether you are doing your remodel full tilt upscale or just upscale appliances with low-end to upper low end-range cabinets and floors.

2 - If upper middle to upscale, meaning especially the cabinets and/or flooring, read on no further.

3 - Do your research on the web and via the telephone to figure out just what appliances, cabinetry, floors/flooring, counter tops, faucets, sinks, small appliances and so on that you want to get. Be sure to have model numbers, brand names and manufacturer names (which may not be the same as the brand name in some cases) and prices. Also collect this information for your second and third choice options because if you are like me, at the right price, even the third choice option will be just fine. (If you are buying cabinets, be sure to really know the construction methods that are used and what your desired cabinets will and won't have in that regard -- materials, assembly methods, reinforcing techniques, etc.)

4 - Determine your cost for delivery, installation and whatever else it'll take to get your kitchen stuff installed and operating.

5 - Call DirectBuy and make an appointment for the earliest session they offer on any given day. You'll want this early slot so you'll have time to perform step 8 below.

6 - Go to the session and sit through the dog-and-pony show. Take your notes and figures with you. Hopefully you have this stuff arranged in a printed spreadsheet.

7 - After the "spiel," go to the catalogs there and compare the prices they offer with those you found. Write it down on your spreadsheet, add it all up and see what you will save.

8 - Add in the cost of DirectBuy's handling fee. (8% on most items but not on major appliances)

9 - Join if you'll save more than you'll pay. Don't join if you won't. For those who don't know, the membership at DirectBuy is currently $6,200.

I did this to check whether I'd save anything on my kitchen appliances, counters, and cabinets. In my case, I found that Blue Star is not available through Direct Buy. Wolf, Gaggenau, Thermador and several other nice brands are available through them and the pricing is shown in the catalog, but you have to ask for the catalog that covers the high-end appliances. Because I'm doing upper end cabinets, however, DirectBuy was not a good deal for me in the end. That is in large part because I want cabinets, flooring, and appliances and accessories that all are what might be called high-end. At DirectBuy, I could only get the appliances (not including the range) and the accessories. (I'd have gone with Wolf rather than Blue Star were I to have joined DirectBuy.)

The cabinet lines they offered don't have the construction features I wanted and they weren't quite as high style (SieMatic/Poggenpohl) as I prefer, but were the construction quality there, I could have modified my choices a bit and done something Mission or Shaker styled, those styles being my alternative choices IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT ENOUGH. (If I could find all wood construction with high quality construction in a say Shaker style for half the price of the SieMatics, I'd have gone that way.)

Notwithstanding that most of stuff they have is geared toward the lower end to mid-range, they nonetheless have very decent prices on some desirable stuff: GE Monogram, Kohler and Franke, their own line of granite countertops and some others. Also, I found that were I to have bought the applicances through DirectBuy, I'd have definitely saved a meaningful sum ($1,500 for range, faucets and sinks and $20 per sq. ft for counters) by doing so, but the appliances alone won't justify the membership fee unless you have a lot of kitchens and baths to outfit.

I helped a friend do the research for his kitchen and when he went, it turned out that even after paying the membership fee and the handling fees and the sales taxes, he was still saving over $12,000. Then again, he'd dropped the bulk of his funds into buying the home (a fixer upper in a very chic location), so he was just looking for functional stuff to replace the barely working crap that came with the house rather than top of the line stuff. Also, he has to redo floors, ceilings, walls, light fixtures, just about everything...the only thing good about the building really was the actual structure itself.

Broadly speaking, if you are already able to afford, and already do buy high-end stuff, you probably won't want to bother with DirectBuy as the variety of things they have that you want (unless you just really shop a hell of a lot for more basic things) is somewhat limited once you start looking at flooring and cabinetry options. Since that's where the majority of a remodel's cost sits, there's little point.

I live in D.C. and when I went to DirectBuy, they spiel they gave used a sample family having a household income of $80,000. I assume therefore that that is about the income of their target customers in my area. Well, let me tell you, any family living in the D.C. area and having kids is just getting buy. They aren't starving and have enough to begin some home improvement projects, but they aren't in any position to be lavish. I just offer this to provide a gauge of who may have some potential benefit from this approach to saving on their projects were they to go with DirectBuy.

The one benefit from going to DirectBuy for me, however, was that I was armed with the manufacturers pricing for the stuff I wanted to buy which has helped my negotiating power a bit with the various dealers.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2007 at 11:53PM
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Thanks, Tony. People who want to lo0ok into Direct Buy might also want to check into this thread on the Building forum. Did you also add in delivery costs?

Here is a link that might be useful: thread on Direct Buy

    Bookmark   July 8, 2007 at 11:59PM
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FG - appliance retailers carring lines that have minimum selling prices cannot have a sale like this and remain in business very long. I can figure out the used car huckery that goes on with retail sales. I was simply wondering if you knew of a place that sold highend appliances at a "true" 5-10% lower than anyone else.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2007 at 1:05AM
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Our "big" purchase is the range. 60" Wolf all gas is $10,099. The Frigidaire all refrigerator, and Frigidaire all freezer run about $1,000 each, as do the dishwashers we have looked at. Here's my thinking, and tell me if I'm wrong, but I assume normal retail mark up would mean that 30% of the retail price is the appliance store's profit. If they had a 10% off sale on Wolf ranges, which they can't do, because of the minimum retail price agreement, I would save $1,000 on the range, and they would still make $2,000 on it. Is the profit margin slimmer than that? If my assumption of how much wiggle room the have on the range is correct, can they just give me a refrigerator, or dishwasher, or does every company have these minimum price agreements?

    Bookmark   July 9, 2007 at 7:49AM
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Antss, when a customer is considering a large purchase, and I mean buying a number of appliances, not one or two Frigidaire units, but a total price tag of $10K and up, it does not hurt at all to ask the store to do something to make the sale. Especially since the other retailers of these products have the price at the same. So if store A and store B have the exact same prices, the the consumer needs to start asking each store what they will do for his business. Why should I buy from you? And "quality of service" means nothing anymore, especially when consumer must contact the manufacturer to arrange for service.

So ask for delivery, a free disposal, free warranties (altho i would never buy one), free installation, etc.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2007 at 9:14AM
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Bob, based simply off of invoice price, dealers do not make close to 30% on Wolf/Sub-Zero appliances. Granted, there are vendor rebate programs, but that entails information I was never privy to, but have heard it amounted to less than 1% of total revenue (depending on brand/distributor).

I would not say "quality of service" means nothing anymore. I took a lot of pride in the level of service I provided my customers, and took extraordinary steps to ensure their happiness. I would even say there were plenty of times I went too far.

It simply depends on the dealer.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2007 at 5:45PM
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Price I've found for Bluestar 48 W/griddle is $7098 at Universal. There may be others out there. I've found it useful to go to www.froogle.com & enter the brand/model number. Works for some things not others.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to 48 Bluestar at universal

    Bookmark   July 9, 2007 at 6:23PM
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Moe, I am sorry that I wasn't clear. I mean service as in repairs. Both locally owned dealers here who sell Wolf/SZ do not offer delivery, installation or repair service at all.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2007 at 7:50PM
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If you are looking for that Bluestar, I was quoted $6,948 at Eurostoves. That includes shipping.


    Bookmark   July 9, 2007 at 7:59PM
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I don't understand why a Wolf/Sub-Z distributor would even sign up a dealer that does not offer such services. That makes no sense, especially for high-end brands.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2007 at 8:17PM
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Yup, and we are in a very high-end market, as well, in the Monterey/Carmel/Pebble Beach area.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2007 at 8:35PM
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I note that the website says that they deliver to the local areas, but in reality, they will give you the name of several sub-contractors who you can hire for delivery. At least that was the case in January.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2007 at 8:42PM
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I think some manufacturers sign up dealers that aren't "full service" because it still reduces the distributor's need to ship to myriad addresses and deal with untold quantities of final customers. I found in my area that there are three other dealers that sell Blue Star, but when I called Prizer-Painter, they didn't even share with me the names of those folks. I just happened upon them when I was searching for a range hood and they offered that they could sell me the Blue Star range I wanted as well. These dealers were in fairly remote locations (relatively speaking) for the general area in which I live, and they did not offer service and installation using their own staff. All the same, the dealer was in a suitable location for folks living from Annapolis to the near-side Eastern shore of the Chesapeake Bay.

As goes getting a good price of stuff, notwithstanding the minimum price agreements with the distributors/manufacturers, no dealer is going to offer you a great deal on a single item purchase. On the other hand, if you are outfitting your whole house, no dealer is going to be unwilling to sell below that price to get your business on the purchase of a range, oven, cooktop, washer, dryer, faucets, sinks, hoods, etc. when they know darn well that you can get the minimum price from any other dealer.

Now it may be that we are especially fortunate here in D.C. in that there are dealers in Northern VA, DC, Annapolis, and Baltimore that we can go to for the same items and we don't have to pay sales tax if we choose the dealer not in DC itself. In my case, I chose the dealer in Balto because they have a full installation capabilities -- they can do the basic plumbing for the gas pipe, carpentry and duct work to get my hood installed, and even drop electricity to the needed location from my circuit breaker. All that and they didn't charge delivery, they'll remove the old appliances, and they had the lowest prices on the accessories I purchased for my range. The DC dealer, in contrast, outsources their installation, which in itself isn't an issue, but it meant that additional coordination was needed to get the installer there at the same time as the appliances. I had to arrange to be home on two occasions -- one for the installer to see what work s/he would have to do and one for them to do the work -- besides the delivery date of the appliance. I'd have to buy the ducting, perform the carpentry and plumbing on my own (or engage some other trade person to do it), and so on...I could do those things, but it was still more of a nuisance than I really wanted.

    Bookmark   July 10, 2007 at 6:49AM
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Teresa - Thanks for the price from Eurostoves. I will definitely be calling them before we order.

    Bookmark   July 10, 2007 at 10:44AM
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Can anyone give me aprox pricing on appliance installation for :
subzero frig
trash compactor
electric cooktop
double oven

I live in San Francisco area.


    Bookmark   October 25, 2007 at 1:41AM
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where did you find the best deals in houston? thx

    Bookmark   March 6, 2008 at 3:26AM
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Direct buy is just another, JGE whats the story, crazy eddy scam where you pay membership fees up front. They then send you to co-operating dealers where you get supposed discounts. They take no responsibility for what you buy and back nothing that you buy, you have a problem take it up with the selling dealer, Direct Buy wants nothing to do with it or your problem.
Send me a membership fee and I'll shop for you.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2008 at 8:05AM
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We are direct buy members. If you are not building new or doing a major remodel, it is not worth the cost of membership. HOWEVER, we saved over $13k on Pella windows vs a competitors and save about $7k over a previous pella quote. To date we have saved approximately $25k and still have our lighting to go. I can't quote prices, but here in Houston a local lighting store has a fixture marked MSRP $2100 and our price $1150. Great deal right. DB was significantly cheaper.

Alos someone above quoted a membership price of $6200. MAybe it is region dependent, but hearing the sales pitches around us while visiting it is a lot less expensive here in Houston.

I also agree with your statement that DB wants nothing to do with service. Keep in mind they are a distributor, not a manufacturer or retailer. Would you go to the distribution center to resolve appliances you bought at best buy? Most likely not. And most likely BB will refer you to the manufacturer as well.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2008 at 11:26AM
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Tim, you may not be getting discounts that are really any better than you can get shopping around yourself. On the lighting fixture, I have seen stores that mark the MSRP but discount 30-40% without even asking. The fixture we bought for our front hall and the one over our kitchen island are perfect examples.

I suspect the discounting on Wolf/Subzero and Thermador is the builder pricing that is available elsewhere. All but my micro and warming drawer came from the Bosch/Thermador and Wolf/Subzero familes, and I got builder pricing.

dt1234, I got both cabinets and appliances from K&N Builder Supply near The Heights (Shepard near I-10). I got builder pricing on them and as I said above, their prices were the same or better on everything except one item that they did a price match on. I would not expect builder pricing on a single item, but you never know.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2008 at 12:53PM
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Kiva has a nice showroom & a lot of SZ/Wolf appliances. They have all the new Thermador, as well as many others. They also have full faucet/sinks, cabinets and pulls/knobs. Gulf & Basco also sells SZ/Wolf, our last SZ quote came from them (they're off the Gulf Freeway). We're due a quote from Kiva now on an SZ650.

I found Factory Builders have always been easy to get along with. If you walk-in they'll readily give you pricing, unless they're waiting on someone.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2008 at 3:21PM
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Kiva is good, and they have a location in Conroe for those who are not in the central part or south side of town. Their pricing was good too.

I went to Gulf & Basco once -- was looking at cabinets then. If you are on that side of town or out towards the bay, they are probably worth looking into, but they weren't worth driving back to from my area.

I have probably been in Factory Builders more times than any other location -- we looked there before we got started, again when we got started, getting a bid on cabinets and looking for certain appliances -- maybe a dozen times in all, maybe more. I found very helpful folks there as well as inattentive ones who were more interested in talking to co-workers than helping a customer. Some of the folks knew a lot about the appliances and others couldn't answer my questions. I found more mixed experiences in the later stages of our planning. They didn't respond to my request for a quote on our selected appliances and the bid for Medallion cabinets was about what I would have paid to do my kitchen in all Woodmode istead of the Brookhaven/Woodmode split -- and the Medallion bid was for fewer features. I didn't press them for an appliance bid -- but they got a shot at it.

Norwest is another appliance dealer that carries some of these brands, but I cannot recommend them.

I think Bayne's has become Built-in Appliance Center -- that's another one to look into. I haven't been in there since the change -- I was told they had closed and later found out it was a change, so I didn't look there when we were ordering our appliances.

Expo also has some of these brands and others. Probably not negotiable pricing, but you might find all appliance sales.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2008 at 4:45PM
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Have been to Kiva and KnB. Got a quote form both for a 48" BlueStar with griddle, 900 cfm VAH, GE Monogram All refrigerator, and GE Mongram MW. We are getting a Miele Optima DW. The Bs is coming from Ca at a cost of $6800 including island trim and shipping. VAH also from same company. AND NO TAX. Cheapest here was $7200 plus 8.25% tax.

I hae a friend who works for GE and I am getting all refrigerator for $3400 after his employee discount. online is $3800 and local at above stores was $4100. Kiva was the same price for the miele but AJ Madison had free shipping and no sales tax.

As far as cabinets, we had Omega quoted for entire house thru Direct Buy. They were approximately $60,000 cheaper than BMC Lonestar.

As far as lighting and plumbing, I have compared prices around after discounts, then searched internet sources for same same and DB beats them hands down. We have six bathrooms and went all TOTO toilets. Westheimer and Furgeson offered a 25% "builder" discount. DB saved us about $600 on six toilets. Our surround speakers offered by our AV installer are 75% less than what he quoted to us.

Not promoting DB at all and not all things are cost effective such as electronics and most appliances. We anticipate saving over $25k by the time all is said and done. The cabs were too expensive even after the discount so we are going with a local custom builder.

lascatex and pugger, where are you building/remodeling. We are in Spring area.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2008 at 11:40PM
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So what can be expected off MSRP? 10,15 or 20% off?

Miele, Sub, etc?

    Bookmark   March 7, 2008 at 8:13PM
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Northwest Houston/290.

BTW, if what Bayne has become still has the same employees I would avoid them. In a misguided effort 5 years back, we bought a Neptune washer & dryer from them. They delivered, the guy pushed the washer over the door edge instead of pulling it over, shattering brick in the process. No apology or acknowledgement even though we pointed it out at the time - brick crumbs/dust/pieces were all over our breakfast room floor! I emailed & left Bayne himself messages at the time, only a delivery manager was embarassed enough to apologize & send a mason out to repair it. Long story short - customers were important, but not that important to Bayne appliance. Maybe it's only just that they sold out/were acquired.

    Bookmark   March 8, 2008 at 10:59PM
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Houston ppl: the best quote i got is from Kiva thru my builder's discount. Gulf and Basco, Metro, came out high. Waiting on factory builders. There is an appliance store called Sara Intl. at 1-10 and beltway, seems good.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2008 at 12:47PM
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Very late to the party on this one, but...

I have a kitchen full of Miele products (induction stove, oven, steam oven and dishwasher)...all great except the induction stove (KM5773). Since installation we have had the issue of the stove shutting off during operation. At first it happened only occasionally (every month or so) and was of course inconvenient when cooking dinner.
However, the frequency of this issue has increased dramatically; happening every few days a few months back and now happening every. "Resetting the touch controls" as outlined on page 18 of the User Guide usually worked (~70%) with a trip to the basement to flip the breaker usually working the rest of the time, so this was more of a nuisance than anything. And my general thoughts at the time were that it's embarrassing for Miele to have designed such a high end stove top that costs $3000 be prone to a ridiculous DESIGN AND ENGINEERING FLAW.
However, over the past several months we have had instances in which we could not even reset the stove...ruining meals, plans, experiences, etc. The capper was when my wife hired some chefs to come and cook for eight of us for a birthday celebration. A night half ruined when only some of the dishes were already finished.
I'm appalled by the reliability of this unit. From the posts online, I'm of the mind that this is NOT isolated to just me and that Miele should consider a product recall...or at least a solution.
I'm at wit's end with more ruinous experiences when I should be enjoying the not inexpensive equipment.

Note -- Miele has a website with very positive reviews of their products...all suspiciously submitted on either September 5th or 6th of 2012. I've submitted the above review twice to no avail.

You've been warned...caveat emptor

    Bookmark   August 26, 2013 at 2:40PM
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What on earth does MoxieNYC's post have to do with this 5-year-old thread? Scratchin' my head here.

    Bookmark   August 26, 2013 at 6:30PM
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