no tub spout in newly remodeled bath enclosure?

sltm9July 1, 2012

We just had our bathroom redone and noticed, in hindsight, that they didn't install a tub spout. we have a moen spa shower with waterfall head and hand shower, but no way to fill the tub. there is the standard up/down toggle in the tub, but it doesn't stop the water from draining. i'm not too concerned since i never take baths. i just don't know if we should have one installed or just get a plug and fill it with the shower head. any suggestions?

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The problem is that a shower's flow is not going to be the same as a tub spout's flow. For example I looked at one Moen shower and it said the flow was 2.5 gallons per minute. I looked a Moen tub and it said 17 gal/minute at 45 psi. I looked up a basic 5' Kohler tub and it holds 58 gallons. So, if you filled it with a shower head it would take 23 minutes to fill up vs a tub spout (with strong psi) would fill it up in under 4 minutes.

I'm not a plumbing expert -- I'm just thinking through the math. I think that's the reason that we don't fill tubs using shower heads. Good luck.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2012 at 1:17PM
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Though I only take showers now, I think there should be a tub spout. That might be a problem when you sell the house.

Was that on the proposal/estimate?

    Bookmark   July 1, 2012 at 1:54PM
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What's the point of having a tub at all if you can't use it as a tub? For taking a shower it's just an encumbrance. Get it taken care of.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2012 at 4:02PM
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Either way, shouldn't the drain toggle work? Maybe it got disconnected during install. I just switched my toggle our for one in the same finish as the fixtures and while it is not hard to install, it is also fairly easy to get the connection to come apart if you are pushing it in the wrong way or twist it to get better positioning.

I would add the spout. Nobody asked you during install? Seems odd.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2012 at 11:03PM
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Annie Deighnaugh

That is just weird...tub should work properly. So get a plumber, get a tub spout and a drain that stops.

    Bookmark   July 2, 2012 at 12:14PM
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still waiting for him to showup today. He said i approved the moen shower spa and never intended to add a spout. The system doesnt support it and will need separate plumbing. My husband argued the point that from the beginning we had to keep the tub for resale. Our mistake in putting so much trust in what seemed to be a competent contractor. And our naivety in not asking enough questions during the remodel. This was our first experience having something this big done to the house.

    Bookmark   July 2, 2012 at 4:01PM
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Sophie Wheeler

If you selected a shower only fixture for a tub/shower and contracted him to install it, then he's fulfilled the contract. That's the risk you take if you select the fixtures. You actually have to know what you're doing.

    Bookmark   July 2, 2012 at 8:05PM
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no need for the snarky comment, hollysprings. We went with this guy because he's an all-inclusive contractor that was well reviewed on angies list and we wanted some handholding. He emailed what he wanted to purchase for our approval. He also has a habit of getting our ok then saying it will be an upcharge. His men do great work and the bathroom is beautiful but ready for this ordeal to be over. We are leaning towards leaving it alone and not bothering with a spout

    Bookmark   July 2, 2012 at 8:54PM
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Sltm9 - you may need to add a diverter valve along with the tub spout, but so long a Moen makes a trim for the valve that looms good with the shower set, you will be fine.

Just yesterday my plumber finished a PITA tub/shower install at our house. We'd purchased Kohler fixtures, a 2 handled temperature and volume control plus a tub spout with diverter. Apparently we would need either an extra diverter or a volume control for the tub spout. Neither of us expected this, and he had even confirmed with Kohler that the system we had designed would work before ordering. So he added the volume control and then Kohler said, "now you need a tub spout without a diverter, and there isn't one available in this collection.". What!?

We were both irritated. But it turns out the tub spout we have works fine.

Moral of the story: sometimes the valve manufacturers don't even know when a valve is or is not compatible with a shower/tub situation, and even plumbers have a bit of trial and error some days.

I guess the other moral is don't try to use a kohler bancroft series double handled valve with a tub :)

I would add the tub spout now if it's a first floor bath. It's nice to be able to quickly fill a bucket of hot or warm water, and the tub is the best way to do that in many homes.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2012 at 7:33AM
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Omg, lol, engineerchic! I was thinking as I read your post that I had the same thing happen to me with Kohler, then read it was even the same line! I loved that stacked thermostatic valve set though. My very experienced plumber was completely confused by the diagrams in the instructions. Seems to install it for a normal arrangement of single handheld shower head and tub spout is not what they intended! After several days with no shower due to this stupid valve issue we returned it all and got a Price Pfister set locally that looks just as nice and was about $1,100 less. So much for splurging on good fixtures, we saved enough for all the "extras" that went in the room outside the fixtures!

And looking back, the most entertaining part was the confused look on the plumbing guys at HD when I insisted they reassure me all the valves that are needed for the rough in are included in the box. That was all separate, and very expensive, with the Bancroft line. They were completely taken aback that you can even buy a trim kit without a rough in valve, but I assured them that yes, that was absolutely possible, and I had done just that. They thought I was nuts.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2012 at 3:41PM
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Yes! That's the one!

And, for everyone who is playing along at home ...

This is the faucet for the sink. I love this faucet.

This is the double handled valve in a shower. It likes being in a shower.

And this is it in a tub. It hates tubs, hence the separate shut off for the tub (note the useless diverter button on the tub spout).

I kept the Set up in the tub because I really do love the sink faucet. We are doing two baths at the same time, and I have the same stuff in both. So in the master bath that only has a shower, it works great. In the hall bath it looks a bit odd but that will have a curtain to hide it :)

Oh, and the blue tape was/is marking places where the tile setter needed to fix things. We aren't quite done with the spaces yet.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2012 at 8:44PM
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We came to the conclusion that the stacked valves were meant to be part of one of those fancy whole room shower things with the body jets and the rain head, and a shower head on each wall (or some similar such configuration). It ain't for us regular folk.

Still not sure why the spout has a diverter. We couldn't figure any way to use the spout without a separate diverter based on those complicated diagrams. Made my GC go cross-eyed trying to trace all those supply lines they pictured!

    Bookmark   July 3, 2012 at 9:14PM
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For anyone looking to outfit one of them there fancy whole room getups, I saved a few hundred dollars buying from Amazon. Plus free shipping, and I have an Amazon credit card so it would have been triple points AND I could have used some of my existing points to pay with. It would have been a bargain shoppers holy grail of a purchase.

And remember to purchase a rough in valve, sold separately. They are very expensive, very heavy, and very large. With my almost nonexistent plumbing knowledge that really caused issues too. I kept telling the CG he needed to figure out what type of valve he needed to go in the wall, and since almost everything else comes with the rough in valve, it never even crossed his mind that was what I meant, he thought I was talking about the shut off valves, also in the wall, and an obvious part of the project so he was wondering about my unusual level of concern about the valve that he thought was a given.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2012 at 9:22PM
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Well, kohler does make a pressure balanced temperature valve in this collection. I guess the thinking is ...

(begin snobby tone)
If you are so low class that you have a tub/shower combo (gag! Retch!) then you don't deserve a thermostatic valve with separate volume control. And if you insist on using our precious valve for that horrible combination, we'll make it really difficult to install as punishment. (end snobby tone)

In a previous house we put in a "car wash" shower with 3 body jets, a fixed shower head, and a hand held shower. Guess what? I almost never used the body jets and only used the handheld to clean the shower. Those kind of showers are lovely, but just more fuss than I want in the morning.

But the Bancroft sink faucet is a thing of beauty. I've never wanted to pet a faucet before now, LOL.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2012 at 9:32PM
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Oh, how I love this forum! Did you get the Bancroft toilet handle?

I feel a little bad hijacking this thread, I hope the OP got the answers needed.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2012 at 11:52AM
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I did not, we used the toilet handles that came with the toilets. But who knows, we might upgrade in the future :)

    Bookmark   July 4, 2012 at 7:14PM
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Everything is done! They had to take out a cabinet to get to the plumbing thru the wall instead of messing with the tile, but now have a fully functioning tub spout. It was on the contract to be installed. We pointed that out to the contractor and he kind of chuckled. All in all we are very pleased with the work/outcome, but not ready to do any more renovations for a while.

    Bookmark   July 12, 2012 at 4:23PM
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So glad it worked out for you!

    Bookmark   July 12, 2012 at 9:30PM
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I would like to see a picture:)

    Bookmark   July 13, 2012 at 8:10AM
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