Question about Miele canister vacuums

marianicoNovember 10, 2010

I posted a similar message on the Appliance forum. Not sure where the best place is to get help. Does anybody know how much difference it makes to get the "Sealed System" canister construction on a Miele canister vacuum as opposed to the "CleanAir" canister construction? We want a model with a power brush for carpets. The Delphi has this for $499, but it has the CleanAir construction. To get the Sealed System you have to move up to the Libra model at $849. Does anybody know if having one system rather than the other make that much difference in capturing and containing dust and those pesky dust mites? Thanks in advance for your help!

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Choosing between the two types of systems depends upon the level of allergic reactions you and your family members have. Not everyone will need the highest level of filtration. You will want to make sure the vacuum cleaner does filter adequately. The Miele S2 series does filter very well. They use high filtration bags to keep the dirt and allergens in the bag. Plus, they have filters after the bag. The final filter will trap remaining dust and allergens and motor carbon dust.

A "sealed system" will insure that nothing will get through the cracks and spaces before hitting the final filter.

Miele has designed their lines for people who have different levels of allergies. Some other companies have vacuum lines that use bags and filters for users with different levels of allergies like Miele. Others also have some models which have a "sealed system".

So, if you have very little allergies to what is in the vacuum cleaner bag, you should do fine with the S2 series. What are you using now and how is your allergic reaction when using it?

    Bookmark   November 10, 2010 at 2:10PM
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Thank you so much! That's really helpful. In the last ten years we've had a Eureka, a Hoover and now a Bissell bagless. We've never done too much research to find out what brands are the best. I definitely want to avoid bagless this time because I start to sneeze when I empty them and clean the filters. I guess, given that info, anything with a bag would be better! I'm just wondering if, as long as we're upgrading, we should spend even more and go for the highest level of dust-freeness. Thanks again!

    Bookmark   November 10, 2010 at 2:56PM
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It sounds like you did fine while using your Bissell. The problem came when it was time to empty the dirt bin. After knowing this, you should have no problem with the S2 series of Mieles. Their vac bags alone filter very well.

Visit some vac shops and take a "test drive" of the different Mieles. If you have the time, take a look at some different brands like Riccar and Simplicity. These two brands are from Tacony. If you find a canister model under one brand, you will find the identical canister under the other brand. Example-Riccar Immaculate=Simplicity Gusto.

    Bookmark   November 12, 2010 at 2:17PM
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I have a Particle counter at the store. When I take a reading of the ambient air in the store I get a number, then I take a reading from the air clean filter, it usually will remove more that half the contaminants. When I take a reading from a sealed system with the hepa it reads ZERO.

TIP- Buy the Libra in store and get not only a Demo but the better in-store pricing.

    Bookmark   November 12, 2010 at 4:43PM
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Thanks so much for the particle information! This is just exactly the kind of information I'm looking for! I will keep all these tips in mind when we get ready to buy. Thanks again!

    Bookmark   November 18, 2010 at 12:14AM
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For those interested, using a particle meter to sell a vacuum cleaner can be deceiving. What people will leave with is the idea that if there are particles leaving the vacuum cleaner, then the vacuum cleaner is bad.

Persons with serious allergies, or respiratory problems will benefit from a vacuum cleaner with the least amount of particles leaving the vacuum. A person with the least to no sensitivities will not notice the benefits. So this person would do fine with a filtering vacuum like the Miele S2 series.

I will give you an example for myself. I used vacuum cleaners for years that did not filter well. This was the days when "HEPA" was not popular. I have minimum allergic reactions. I later purchased a very good vacuum, that filtered very well. No more sneezing and great reduction in dust in my house. I later switched to a sealed system vacuum with HEPA. My allergic reactions did not change for the better. Why would they change if I was already using a vacuum cleaner that was filtering adequately. My house was not even cleaner than before.

If any particles escape, they are in minute amounts. These minute amounts are going to affect a person who is sensitive to the particles. You cannot even see these particles.

Sometimes, people think more is better. Look at the antibacterial soap craze. People thought that they needed to wash with antibacterial soap. Studies are showing that people can wash with regular soap just fine. Just wash your hands thoroughly with soap.

More is not always better.

Now, if there were other features, besides filtration, then I could see the desire for a higher prices model.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2010 at 2:40PM
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Thanks! I really appreciate this perspective too. I can definitely see the analogy to anti-bacterial soap. This is why I keep going back and forth on this in my mind. The other feature that the Miele S5 series has that I prefer to the S2 is the storage for the attachments inside the machince (integrated) rather than on the Vario Clip. I really want a vacuum cleaner that will last for years. I don't like getting rid of things (my car is 10 years old and it's not going anywhere soon). I can see attachments getting broken or misplaced if they are just hanging out on a clip rather than stored safely inside the machine. I also like that the sides are softer, so less likely to mess up the furniture and baseboards. On the other hand the S2 series vacuums are slightly smaller and lighter, and since we have a small place this could make a difference with moving it around and storing it. I don't care about the extra electronic features. So this is how it breaks down for me:

Delphi - $499 - cheapest Miele that has the electric hose/brush for carpets.

Titan - $599 - electric hose/brush, and you also get the Hepa filter and the parquet floor brush (but we could upgrade the Delphi with those later if we found we wanted/needed them).

Libra - $849 - the lowest priced model that has the electric hose/brush AND the sealed system. Also has integrated storage for the attachments, and softer sides.

So. Still trying to decide if the extra $350 (Delphi vs Libra) or $250 (Titan vs. Libra) is worth it. Of course, my husband is not entirely convinced that we should even spend $499! So this is something we will just continue to think about for now.

Thanks again for everyone's help! And thanks for allowing me to think out loud here and try to figure this out!

    Bookmark   November 18, 2010 at 3:03PM
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geguymw, While I almost always agree with your posts, I think telling someone that "using a particle meter to sell a vacuum cleaner can be deceiving" is well, deceiving. It makes it seem that giving QUANTIFIABLE EVIDENCE as information is a deceptive tactic akin to a parlor trick. Demonstrating a vacuum with a particle meter and, in addition, a suction gauge offer valuable information that can help a consumer better decide what product is best for them. These tests are part of the service a vacuum store can provide that is no longer available in Box Stores and the Internet and is a more reliable method to evaluate a product than a Consumer Magazine or Internet Review might be. It's not like sucking up a bowling ball or offering a free Iron. It's not like buying a well respected company name and putting it on another lesser product.

    Bookmark   November 19, 2010 at 10:40AM
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Lucky51, I thought I had explained quite well. It is deceiving when someone uses the meter to sell their product, then tells them they must have this or that vacuum cleaner and nothing else will work, without finding out how much of a problem allergens are for that particular individual or household.

A particle meter is fine, but it is important how someone uses it and the information gathered from it. At what number is the meter going to tell everyone when they will react to allergens in the air?

It is always better to first understand the customer and their needs. This also means to understand their fears and limitations in regard to floorcare and cleaning. This means to ask questions. If you noticed, I did that. Then take all that info and give them some options that would better suite them. This may also mean telling them they do not need âÂÂmoreâÂÂ, if âÂÂlessâ will work for them.

If we all look through our lives, we could recollect people who have tried to sell us more than we need. Previously, I used the "antibacterial soap" as an example. What about going in to find a washing machine or refrigerator. The salesman tells us that we must have this model, because anything else is just junk. We want someone who will just say "No, you do not need all that and here is why". We do not want someone who will play on our fears or lack of knowledge.

As I have commented about through countless posts, Miele even knows that there are different levels of reactions to allergens. Miele has accommodated by selling different filters and filtering systems. I give Miele two thumbs up for this. If someone has minimal to no allergic reaction, when vacuuming, why not sell them a vacuum cleaner that will filter well and save some money.

Now onto the suction meter. This meter is going to detect how much suction the vacuum cleaner has, but that can be deceiving for the uninformed. You should know that suction is not the only way to tell if a vacuum cleaner is going to clean. There have been vacuum cleaners registering lower than another, but cleans better than the higher registering vacuum cleaning. I could go on about suction, but I will leave that for another time.

So, using a meter to sell a vacuum cleaner can be deceiving. Do not expect every person, who walks into your store, to understand the particle meter. I explained filters, filtration, etc. You gave the poster your three readings, then told them what to get.

    Bookmark   November 23, 2010 at 2:45PM
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I'm totally confused by your post? You seem to assume that selling a vacuum using a particle counter and a suction gauge as part of the demonstration, does not come with an explanation of them to the customer. Why would you think that? I also get the assumption from you that a dealer doesn't try to match the customer to the proper vacuum.

I don't have a lot of time to explain in every detail on line to a poster about what specific vacuum is best for them. Like anyone who works for a living I also get paid for my knowledge. Personally I think that if someone buys a vacuum because of what is said on a web board they risk the chance of buying the wrong machine. The vacuum is one of the last products they can try before they buy it. Why they would buy from a web site rather than take advantage of an in store demo is short sighted in my opinion.

I just gave the poster some QUICK info to go on... just as they asked... and I did not tell them which vacuum to buy. I merely suggested if they chose the Libra (as they had indicated), to buy it in store because it is cheaper AND they can get more information through a demo.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2010 at 3:35PM
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Hi There,

As the OP, I just want to say to geguymw and lucky51 that I appreciate the advice and perspective from both of you, and don't want to cause any arguments. I have done a lot of research, including asking questions here, and I'm still not sure which way we'll go. If this were a vacuum for my brother, who, sadly, passed away last year, it would be a no brainer. He had terrible allergies and I think a sealed system would have been the obvious choice for him. Our allergies are not nearly so severe, yet I am still drawn to a completely sealed system, even though it may be overkill for our needs. One other factor in my mind (besides the obvious one of price) is that the S2s are a little smaller and lighter, and that would be a good thing in our small place. I have looked at a couple of Mieles at a local vacuum shop. I liked them, although I wish they swiveled where the hose attached to the machine. Also, the handle seemed a bit bulky to me, but everything else looks great. I like the idea of buying locally, but the free shipping/no tax of the various internet sites is very tempting. When the time comes for us to buy (probably in the spring) I will see what we can work out with the local shop.

Thanks again for everyone's help, and I wouldn't mind hearing even more advice and opinions.

Happy Thanksgiving!

    Bookmark   November 24, 2010 at 6:28PM
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Have you looked at other brands? I have allergies and chose a Miele Silver Moon a few years ago and it started needing repairs almost immediately. A replacement hose was not covered by the warranty. After paying $1200 for the thing, that hurt. I had looked at a Sebo as well, and wish I had chosen that. They're not pretty but I think they're better made.

    Bookmark   November 29, 2010 at 9:21AM
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Thanks so much for the input, msbumble. Wow! I hadn't heard about a Miele needing repairs so soon. Mostly I hear about them lasting 10-15 years or longer. That's part of the appeal for me. I have been hearing "Miele for canisters, Sebo for uprights" so much. I tried a Sebo upright and really liked it. But we are pretty set on getting a canister this time around. I will take another look at the Sebo canisters. I was also looking at the Simplicity/Riccars. I like the fact that they swivel where the hose connects to the machine, but I haven't actually been able to see those in person yet. I'm still leaning toward a Miele (that's just me - husband still has a say too, hee hee!), but I can see we should continue with our research.

Thanks, again!

    Bookmark   November 30, 2010 at 10:38PM
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I started a Cleaning Business two years ago and purchased two Miele Canister Vacuums. My brother and I clean one to two houses per day, and I have been very pleased with my Miele Vacuums. I was impressed with the Sealed Hepa filter, not only because of my own allergies, but the allergies of my clients. I too did a lot of investigating, before I decided on Miele. I love my Miele Vacuums and take good care of them, making sure to change the Hepa Filters when needed and not to let the bags get too full. I find they are also great on stairs. We use the Neptune for carpeted stairs, as it is smaller and lighter in weight. The vacuums are also great on Hardwood floors, when you use the hardwood floor brush.
Miele Vacuums are very quiet, and the pets do not run and hide, when we vacuum in client's homes.


    Bookmark   December 4, 2010 at 9:18AM
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