Bluestar Platinum Owners - How is your Range

dzanerApril 23, 2014

How is it to use the grill and griddle? ie ease of use, quality of cooking.

How is the new oven. Is it faster? Does it cook evenly?
Have you broiled? How big is the broiler and how well does it work? How hot does the large oven door get?

That is to say, did Bluestar succeed with the improvements they made? Thank you.

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I would love to hear some feedback as well, looking to purchase next year. Another member commented that the griddle sits on two different power burners and this would cause heating issues.

    Bookmark   April 24, 2014 at 1:02AM
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not true-its a fantastic product ahving sold sold some already-the griddle grill should be placed on the insdie not the outside burners and the oven has a power module for reduced preheat time;your local AUTHORIZED dealer should have explained this to you unless he is not allowed to sell this series

    Bookmark   April 24, 2014 at 11:49AM
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It is true that the griddle and grill sit atop two burners of different power (25,000 and 15,000). I have no idea of the consequences of this set up.

Andy47, the range SOUNDS fantastic. Many things do. Sometimes there are unintended consequences both positive and negative. I have seen one of these. Looked great. BUT, I want to know how it is to use as a day to day range and if both the oven circulation AND heat up time are working well and how well it broils (Consumer Reports (I know they are not the end all be all BUT) they said the broiler in the old ranges was Poor). I do broil a lot and want this to work well. Other than needing a place to store the grill and griddle, (I'll happily store them if the resulting flexibility and functionality are worth it) is there any downside to the burner set up. Anything, first impressions, especially lasting impressions are welcome.

Thank you.

    Bookmark   April 24, 2014 at 2:14PM
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call steve crame the bluestar rep who knows the product
thru and thru 717 873 4162

    Bookmark   April 24, 2014 at 3:30PM
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I'm also interested in hearing from actual users. I have read dozens (or even hundreds) of posts on GardenWeb and Chowhound, and certain complaints have come up over and over and over again--the weak broiler, the fiery hot doors that won't open while the food is trapped inside, and the industrial noise levels.

All these problems seem to be with the ovens, not with the cooktop. Most of my cooking is cooktop, which is why BlueStar keeps catching my eye.

However, I do broil a lot, and I am absolutely sick of broilers that have no more power than a toaster oven. I also bake enough to want those oven problems resolved.

Any comments from personal experience would be a tremendous help. If the Platinum line has really tackled and resolved the well-known problems, I'll be buying a BlueStar this year.

    Bookmark   May 19, 2014 at 6:39PM
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Has anyone cooked bacon in a Blue Star Platinum oven?

Wouldn't the open flame of the PowR burner on the back wall of the oven ignite a grease fire?

Seems like that would be like cooking bacon on a gas grill or under a gas broiler, which is insane and dangerous.

    Bookmark   May 19, 2014 at 8:53PM
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Hi All -

I own the BS Platinum range and can answer a few questions. Mine was installed in end of March/April - so it's only been a couple months....I have had some problems, but am hoping that they all get solved while under warranty.

Re: Griddle/Grill feature - the grill is one of my absolute favorite features. At first I had the griddle piece on, but once I used that grill - I knew the griddle would collect dust. My friends have oohhed and ahhhed that we can actually grill - with flames licking a steak, in the middle of winter. I'm thankful I bought a good hood to deal with the smoke though from that kind of high-heat grilling.

Re: the broiler - so far have broiled fish a couple of times - it seems great to me - super hot and cooked my fish in about 3 minutes. The manual says it doesn't need to pre-heat, but I do think it needs a few minutes on to get cranking - though I haven't actually tested it.

Re: the doors - the doors get warm, not hot. So far no hinge problems yet, but I'm worried they are coming.

Re: Bacon in the PowR oven - I generally don't bake my bacon, so not sure. I can say though that my PowR Oven doesn't seem to be functioning properly. According the manual, there's never supposed to be more than the blue flame around the burner. When I have the oven on high heat (like 400 or more) I've noticed i get LOTS of orange flame. It's pretty scary looking, like there's a fire in the oven. I have yet another email out to my rep and their recommended repair service to come take a look. Seems to only happen when the oven is set to high heat (I also had convection on when this happened last).

Re: customer service/problems: So when the unit arrived, there was all kinds of damage, warped metal supports on the cooktop, warped oven pieces, and door handles that were clearly not level. All was replaced by BlueStar after two visits out. However, the rep who sold me the thing has been dismally unresponsive. And I just sent them an actual video with the PowR burning flaming orange to try (again) to get someone out to adjust it. After reading other BlueStar reviews, I'm getting worried about the longevity of this thing.

Once all the warped items were replaced, I will say I do really enjoy cooking on it. My biggest worry is with the oven right now...but the cooktop is just awesome - there is so much control. If I can get the oven piece resolved then I'll be a lot happier.

    Bookmark   May 30, 2014 at 10:52AM
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"Jasmith," thanks for the report and, sigh ... So glad you got your issues (mostly so far) taken care of, but it just stinks that you had them to begin with on a range of this price and supposed quality. Unfortunately, it seems like Bluestar continues to have almost no quality control. It's really, really frustrating though, at the very least, it doest seem like they're at least responding to customers now. Back in the old days (mid-2007) when I got my range and reported many of the same things I was told such issues as bent metal, missing screws, warped/misaligned grates etc. were impossible and they wouldn't be doing anything about it. So, better, but wouldn't it still just be easier to put together the ranges correctly in the first place and package them properly for shipping? Sure, some small number will always get damaged in transit, but the myriad of problems with new units we continue to see reported here is really beyond the pale. Get it together, Bluestar!

    Bookmark   May 30, 2014 at 11:15AM
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If you have too much orange on your burner's flame there's an inadequate amount of air being supplied to the burner in relation to the amount of gas.

Please make sure you have a functioning carbon monoxide detector in the kitchen as the flame you are describing is definitely not burning properly and is unquestionably dangerous. Run your vent hood on high if you insist on using that oven.

This type of burner (air/gas pre-mix) is brand-new to residential ranges and industry insiders believe Bluestar took it to market before it was ready.

    Bookmark   June 4, 2014 at 11:19PM
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@Cassity - this is pretty alarming. I have a technician coming out to fix it tomorrow. Any more insider knowledge about if any of these are working? I'm wondering now if I need to try and just get a new range entirely. There's no way that I can just not use that oven long term - it's the main oven! What's the point of spending all the money if you can't actually use it! Yikes.

    Bookmark   June 5, 2014 at 12:49PM
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@jasmith: Was the bad combustion issue resolved with the service call?

I have no way to know how many Platinum ranges were sold but a burner like that should be set once (unlike an atmospheric burner which needs to be adjusted for elevation) at the factory and work fine forevermore.

Unfortunately, I think it can be safely said that the problem with your burner goes beyond an in-house adjustment: it's a design flaw with the entire burner system (imho).

Good luck.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2014 at 9:39PM
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jasmith writes:

So when the unit arrived, there was all kinds of damage, warped metal supports on the cooktop, warped oven pieces, and door handles that were clearly not level. All was replaced by BlueStar after two visits out. However, the rep who sold me the thing has been dismally unresponsive. And I just sent them an actual video with the PowR burning flaming orange to try (again) to get someone out to adjust it.


From your description of the warped parts, your stove must have gotten a good dose of shipping damage.

Does your Platinum use propane or natural gas? Could you please post a link to that video so that I could see how orange your flames are?

The reason I'm asking is that our RNB uses propane and it's normal for propane flames to not be entirely blue. We have a little orange and yellow in the flames, and the stove, oven, and broiler all work great.

If yours is natural gas, then obviously that would not apply. I was just curious as to exactly how much orange is in your stove's flames.


    Bookmark   June 8, 2014 at 3:36AM
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Cassity, do you have any hard information (articles, third-party reviews, anything, etc.) to support your post that "industry insiders believe Bluestar took it to market before it was ready"? And your follow-up remark that it can "be safely said that the problem with your burner goes beyond an in-house adjustment: it's a design flaw with the entire burner system".

It's easy to say anything on the Internet, and I'm sure that many people on this forum that are considering this unit (myself included) would love to hear any facts you can provide.

    Bookmark   June 8, 2014 at 6:43PM
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@cassity - I'd like to second @jormy's request...those are some pretty big allegations that, if true, would mean way more trouble and expense for someone like me who would likely have to return my range and buy a different model or new brand. The adjustment that was made has seemed to help during the tests the technician ran - although I didn't cook this weekend to put it to the test once he left. More on that soon.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2014 at 1:01PM
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@jasmith, @jormy: As in any field, introducing new/crossover technology into a product can pose certain difficulties.

This type of burner, one that mixes gas and air with a blower, is mainly used in boilers and furnaces. It’s also is used in the commercial cooking world: but it's not located inside the oven cavity, openly exposed to the food.

I stated that this type of burner should be set at the factory as it does not rely on elevation adjustments that are necessary in an atmospheric style burner, that's the reason I believe it's more than an in-house adjustment. As it costs money to pay for service calls, why wasn’t it set right to begin with? It should be simple if the design is sound.

The statement regarding industry insiders was based on opinions of appliance industry workers. Jormy, unfortunately, there are no published results, third-party information or customer reviews (save jasmith’s) at this time. I couldn’t find one article regarding a power burner which is located in an oven cavity that was tested with proven success in a residential application. Lastly, the fact that industry giants, with hundreds of thousands to spend in R&D (Viking, Wolf), do not offer this type of burner in a residential range leads me to believe it’s not ready/applicable in this setting.

@jasmith: keep us updated.

    Bookmark   June 10, 2014 at 7:49PM
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@jasmith: did you see any improvement to your oven's poor performance (the "orange flames" you stated) since the technician made adjustments?

You wrote "the rep who sold me the thing has been dismally unresponsive." Has that person stepped up to help you with the problems you are having with the "PowR" burner?

    Bookmark   June 17, 2014 at 11:02PM
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@jasmith--any update to your oven's problems?

@jormy--have you found any information to verify/contradict my statements?

    Bookmark   June 25, 2014 at 8:27PM
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@jasmith--any updates?

Does the oven burner warp and/or discolor the oven racks as they are so close to the flames?

    Bookmark   July 11, 2014 at 9:28AM
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@jasmith I join the inquiries of others - any updates? Your input at this point would be of great help to those of us currently trying to decide between the Platinum and standard RNB Bluestar 48". I also welcome an answer to the question of propane vs. nat. gas.


    Bookmark   July 20, 2014 at 5:54PM
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HI All - I do have an update. The range is in the process of being exchanged by the store I bought it from. I had 6 service calls in 5 months. During the last one they actually replaced the valve to the PowR burner - and then the small oven stopped working completely (it's possible something just didn't get reconnected when they did the valve replacement). I really want to keep this range - and am hopeful that I perhaps just had a lemon and the new range will function properly. Again, it seems impossible to find anyone else who actually has this range to see if they are having similar issues. Everything so far has been covered under warranty and BlueStar is saying that they are not having these types of issues with other Platinums they've sold, but obviously there's no way to verify that. I will keep you posted on how things go with the new range once it's exchanged. If I end up having the same issues, I'll be looking at another brand or even the RNB - which everyone seems to like just fine.

Re: questions - we have natural gas (not propane); the over burner does not warp the oven racks, but the bottom rack does turn bright red from the heat at the area closest to the burner.

Re: @Cassity - again, it would be helpful if you identified your connection to the industry and source of your information in terms of your comments/concerns about the Platinum. It's hard to go into a conversation with a rep saying "This person on the internet says industry insiders think the technology was not ready for market."

    Bookmark   July 25, 2014 at 4:54PM
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I am happy to see that we have had a reply from jasmith. In the interim, this past Friday I undertook my own inquiry and visited the Bluestar cooking demonstration center/showroom in Reading where a platinum is on display. What follows represents the first hand observations of my wife and myself regarding the stove and its operation.
The stove is beautiful! The light and fan buttons have lighted diodes; the knobs are larger and available in any color you choose; the trim piece between the stove top and the knobs has been totally redesigned such that the former bottom lip that was a dirt and grease trap has been eliminated totally; the grooves in the kick panel have been eliminated once again reducing locations the collect grease and dirt; the shelves in the oven truly glide out; and the convertible griddle/grill is absolutely amazing despite being (since it is cast iron) fairly heavy. The only drawback I saw was that you need a drawer where you can store either the complete grill/griddle assembly leaving you eight burners on the 48 inch or you need a drawer to store the burners themselves when the grill/griddle assembly is on the stove. Personally, I was so impressed with its operation I can't imagine not having it on the stove. So what about the stove’s operation?
Concerned about the problems that jasmith had with her oven, I turned on the oven (running on LP), turned it up to 400° and even when it came to temperature saw no yellow flames whatsoever. We ran the oven in our presence for more than 40 minutes increasing the temperature in excess of 500° and it operated perfectly. I should also note that the doors did not become too hot to touch. I’m not going to comment on the operation of the burners as, except for the increased BTU capacity of two of them, they operate similarly to the RNB.
All I can tell you in summary is that my wife was so impressed that on Saturday we ordered the platinum for our new kitchen with a mid-September delivery. I should also note that I talked to our appliance salesman and he told me that since they’ve had the platinum on the floor it has engendered significant sales so there are apparently a lot of people out there using the platinum without problem or complaint.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2014 at 5:50PM
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Looking forward to updates from jasmith and avvocot as we plan on getting a 48" next year.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 1:48AM
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@jasmith: 6 service calls in 5 months without resolution!? Was your range on a recall?

I think Bluestar is going to have a major service problem with the Platinum range.

What appliance technician is going to be able to troubleshoot a power burner when it’s the first time they have seen it in a range setting?

    Bookmark   July 30, 2014 at 10:31PM
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i've read thru these posts and it seems alot of these problems are due mostly to problems with whomever is doing the shipping and not properly installing the range
in additon to adjusting the air shutter;thne ones i have sold in the past couple of months have not had any problems so far and alot of my clients seem thrilled with its features
to those who have written negative posts re this product
probably have no ideas that occur with other mfrs and their defaults;i can rightly say that bluestar stands behind their product

    Bookmark   July 31, 2014 at 11:32AM
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BlueStar stood behind ours...
The single initial issue at startup was promptly resolved with a factory replacement part. Since then, the stove has performed flawlessly. Zero issues with the igniters (it even came with two spares included). The oven door does not get excessively hot, and it opens and closes as smooth and solid as a Cadillac.

Rough shipping can wreck even the finest products ever made, and inept installers can do the same. Both of these occur ~after~ an inspected and passed product leaves the factory.

This post was edited by tinyhomebuilder on Thu, Jul 31, 14 at 18:30

    Bookmark   July 31, 2014 at 6:23PM
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But you have an RNB...

The real question is how the PowR burner, which is quite an unproven design, holds up in the field.

    Bookmark   July 31, 2014 at 9:42PM
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@jasmith: I assumed your delayed response was due to Bluestar exchanging (recalling?) your range.

Bottom line, in my opinion (I have worked on commercial and residential ranges for many years, as have the people that I am getting opinions from): it does not work in the setting in which Bluestar is trying to implement it.

Power burners are systems which require balance--having food on roasting pans and baking sheets along with oil/ grease-laden air and oven racks and a convection fan situated inside the burner’s ring accompanied with opening and closing the door (which affects the burner’s pressure) will all have ill-effects on a power burner situated inside the cooking area. Again, that’s why I believe that it’s a poor, unproven design.

Replacing a valve is a sleight of hand and/or poor troubleshooting. A valve opens and closes. If it does that simple task it’s functioning. “Shipping damage” as some members posted is complete nonsense.

Personally, I would run away from that range as fast as I could as I believe the replacement will behave exactly the same as the first.

Why not ask Bluestar to put you in touch with other customers who are happy with the range? Were other people’s Platinum ranges also recalled? I’d also ask what, exactly, is going to be different about the replacement range.

Seems to me they’re just buying time.

As far as others who own the range, @andy47, a dealer on this thread, has claimed to “have sold some already.” Perhaps there will be some input there from other Platinum owners.

@beefstew01: Good comment--you are correct about a serviceperson having a hard time troubleshooting a burner they have never seen before.

@avvocot: you stated “…there are apparently a lot of people out there using the platinum without problem or complaint.”

If there are, @avvocot, they are noticeably silent. Or perhaps, they too, are riding on marketing promises and a replacement range.

    Bookmark   July 31, 2014 at 10:59PM
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hvtech writes:

But you have an RNB...
The real question is how the PowR burner, which is quite an unproven design, holds up in the field.

Of course. My comment solely concerned BlueStar's customer service which was attentive, courteous, and competent.

    Bookmark   August 1, 2014 at 12:11AM
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Just to clarify...the range was not recalled by BlueStar. BlueStar wanted to send a tech out for the 7th time. The appliance store I bought it from processed the exchange.

I really hope Cassity is not correct. I will have a replacement Platinum in the next week or so and we'll see how it works then. If I have the same problems, I'll be getting another range entirely. It's just too much money to have this not work perfectly.

While it took longer than I wanted, BlueStar was ultimately responsive and tried to fix the issue. The appliance store I bought it from has been great. I too would love to hear from other platinum owners - I'm thinking if this doesn't work out, I'd go for the RNB. I still like BlueStar better than other brands out there.

    Bookmark   August 1, 2014 at 9:41AM
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Thanks for the update. If it doesn't work out with the platinum, you can't go wrong with the RNB. As far as the burners go, they're nearly identical to the platinum. I've even heard that bluestar will make the interchangeable grill/griddle available on the RNB.

But hopefully, your replacement platinum will work out, making all of this moot!

    Bookmark   August 1, 2014 at 3:10PM
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I still would like to understand how the grille/griddle heats evenly. Looking at the Bluestar site, the 25k burners are the front middle two. The grille/griddle goes from front to back, over two different temp burners?? What am I missing here?

    Bookmark   August 1, 2014 at 7:23PM
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@jormy: You’re not missing anything about the grill/griddle, common sense dictates it’s impossible to cook evenly across burners with different outputs.

The grill/griddle goes front to back, over two burners on the range. So on the far left setting you’re trying to grill/griddle over a 22k burner in the front and a Simmer (9k) burner in the back? Ridiculous.

The interchangeable grill/griddle is yet another major design flaw/misstep (along with the PowR Burner) with the Bluestar Platinum Range.

There’s not a thermostat on the grill/griddle so you have to fiddle with two knobs as you’re trying to cook over two burners that have different outputs! You could get close with the 22k in the front and an 18k in the back but it’s still far from ideal.

I’ve cooked on it, and let me tell you, it’s impossible to keep an even temperature. Exceedingly difficult when the front burner is 22k and the rear a Simmer burner.

In addition to the grill/griddle combination, Bluestar also sells a flat griddle, which is a Lodge imitation. This can go side to side across the front zone on the range. I’ve cooked on that as well, I would not recommend putting that across a 22k and a 25k burner as it gets dangerously overheated and out of control.

@jasmith: Any news regarding the replacement range following 7 failed field fixes? I hope you’ll be satisfied but I think the likelihood is low unless you really lower your expectations about the Bluestar Platinum range. I don’t understand why’d you would even consider giving them any business by getting a RNB or any other product that they’re offering after the debacle you’ve been through. If anyone else is having half the troubles as you it's likely to be recalled.

    Bookmark   September 12, 2014 at 9:35PM
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I am on the verge of ordering the BS Platinum -- any updates from owners? @jasmith, how is it going? I have to say, your situation makes me nervous . . .

    Bookmark   September 16, 2014 at 10:24PM
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@jasmith: Any news regarding your replacement range?

    Bookmark   October 8, 2014 at 8:53PM
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HI all -

Happy to report that the replacement range is running great! The ovens keep temp perfectly and most importantly no flare-ups with the POWR oven. I do have a mega-extended warranty that my appliance store offered considering the troubles I had with the first one, so if something were to happen with this range, I would be covered.

Now that the issues are fixed, I'm really happy with the range. Baked batches of cookies perfectly in both ovens, roasted all kinds of meats and vegetables, and had good success all around.

And I have to say the two different burner powers for the grill/griddle is absolutely not a problem. I let both get very hot and then turn the burners down to a medium low to maintain even cooking after fully heating the cast iron. It's worked great for me. Has anyone else bought a platinum? Would still love to hear from other owners about their experiences.

    Bookmark   October 9, 2014 at 3:29PM
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@jasmith: Wish you the best.

Keep your receipt!

    Bookmark   October 10, 2014 at 11:20AM
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Sheila Hanlon

Been lurking here waiting to hear how Aavocot likes the range. Did you receive it yet? We ordered one this weekend, 36" Platinum that is.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2014 at 4:54PM
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We have just moved in to our brand new home where I have had installed a 48" Bluster Platinum range in standard configuration. My appliance representative informed us that we couldn't use the oven because something was wrong with either the burner arrangement or the oven racks. I have just spoken to her today, and according to what the company has told her, their design for the oven racks for this range means that the lowest rack position CAN'T BE USED and shouldn't be used, as it will warp and burn from contact with the open flame system. They do not have a fix at this time, according to the information given me. The appliance store has offered to take back the range and let me choose another product if I am not satisfied with this solution. This is heartbreaking to me after all the research I did and I love the cooktop and the range looks great in general. However, having an oven that might not be of sufficient size in the vertical direction for large roasts/turkeys, etc. is obviously not acceptable in a range of this cost. I am not sure what we are going to do at this point. The company is sending a replacement rack as the one that was tested in the bottom position warped and burned at the back. So, this problems does not appear to have been solved satisfactorily! Propane, by the way.

    Bookmark   November 7, 2014 at 12:00PM
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Yikes, that is pretty scary. Is this an isolated issue? I haven't read about this problem before with BS range ovens.

    Bookmark   November 7, 2014 at 2:56PM
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More information: I do not believe this is an isolated issue, no, as there are postings on this thread that indicate a similar problem, some of which have been fixed. Also, I called the corporate offices of Bluestar in Pennsylvania and spoke with a supervisor who was very nice, and confirmed the information I have received. At this time, the lowest rack position should NOT be used or the rack will warm and discolor because of contact with the open flame system. He did say the company was working on a newly designed rack system for this oven and that it would be available as a warranty repair when available. He stated that the lowest rack position was one almost on the oven floor and encouraged me to try the stove utilizing the other 4 rack positions before deciding to give up and replace the range. He provided me contact information and said he was available to help solve problems. I was impressed at his rapid telephone response and openness. Now I have to get back to my new house in a couple of weeks after we move across country and see if there is enough vertical room in the oven to be what I want it to be.

    Bookmark   November 7, 2014 at 3:11PM
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Ouch on the rack issue. I had been pleased to read that another report said oven working well and heating evenly but now the rack position report is a bit disappointing. It likely will not affect us, as we don't often cook big turkeys so we probably can avoid the lowest oven position. We have a 48" a Bluestar platinum waiting at the dealer to be installed a November 18 in our complete kitchen redo. Hope our BS Platinum arrives trouble free! Not sure what else we would get after all the research. We will have a Wolf Combi steam oven as well but don't lije the thought of a design defect in the BS Platinum. Hope they get it sorted out soon! Please post any info about potential fixes for the problem!

    Bookmark   November 8, 2014 at 2:00PM
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From the testing I've witnessed the oven racks (which are heavy stainless steel) warp and discolor regardless of what position they are in.

I've seen an oven rack in the position second down from top get red hot and distort.

@jasmith: can you speak toward this topic?

    Bookmark   November 9, 2014 at 7:47PM
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I really really want to like the bluestar. I've read a ton of stuff about the hot door issue. Since I have 2 young kids (one who is on the verge of walking). I decided that before I commit to one for our new construction I had to experience it first hand. Due diligence etc. etc.

Yesterday I drove two hours to the Bluestar factory showroom. They were doing testing on RCS and RNB. The ovens had been set to 375 for 2 hours. On both there are portions of the door that got too hot in opinion. Specifically along the center front behind the handle and along the side of the door along the top. Not burn you instantly hot but definitely I could not keep my hand on it for more than a second or two. I left feeling very weary about the BS.

I then drove down near Lancaster to Martin appliances. They have a platinum set up for demo. I fired up the oven to 425 and let it heat up for 20 minutes. The sides were recessed so I couldn't test the sides of the door. At first it seemed that the platinum door was much cooler. However, after 30-40 minutes the front of the door behind the handle was once again really hot. Unacceptably so to me.

I'm of very two minds about the BS. I really want one for the combination of powerful open burners and stripped down electronics. However, IMHO the concerns about the hot doors are legitimate. I think each person needs to test for themselves and decide their tolerance of this issue.

I haven't necessarily written the BS off my list but it has given me real pause.

This post was edited by HerrDoktorProfessor on Fri, Nov 21, 14 at 10:14

    Bookmark   November 20, 2014 at 9:09PM
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It seems a couple of y'all are in the boston area- I was wondering where you bought your bluestar?

    Bookmark   November 20, 2014 at 10:50PM
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@herrdoktorprofessor: did you touch the door under the star logo or on the panel below the door (rcs and rnb)?

Extremely hot.

Especially when the oven burner is on. I bet around 190* F.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2014 at 1:10PM
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I'm sure I did though I don't recall it being particularly hot on the RCS or RNB. The places where it struck me as potentially problematic were on the upper part of the door behind the handle and on the upper sides of the door. On the Platinum the place it was pretty hot was again on the upper part of the door behind the handle.

Again those were my personal perceptions touching these ovens at the Bluestar showroom in Reading and at Martin Appliances in Brownstown, PA (outside of Lancaster).

I also did some research on UL standards for what it's worth.
For metal surfaces below 36" high the maximum temp allowed is 152 degrees.
By comparison
140 will cause 1st degree burns with prolonged exposure (40-60 seconds)
160 will cause 2nd degree burns at 60 seconds of exposure

There was a BS RNB owner here who posted a video taking readings with a laser thermometer with his oven set at 350 for a prolonged period of time with readings on the front ranging from 90-141 degrees with much of surface in the 120-135 range.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2014 at 4:42PM
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@herrdoktorprofessor: you are correct about the temperature of bare steel being a maximum of 152*; however, a laser thermometer will not give an accurate reading on bare metal.

You need a surface probe (like a hockey puck) thermometer.

I bet the areas you describe are over 170* F.

Even higher if the oven is set to 500*,

    Bookmark   November 21, 2014 at 6:53PM
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@cassity. I ask you have a bluestar. You never mention having one in any of your multiple posts, yet you continue to speak about it as if you're an authority.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2014 at 9:08PM
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So, I've had my Platinum completely rechecked by the service technician from our appliance company and here's what I've experienced so far with use of this range.

After a few hours of work and complete investigation by the technician, his conclusion is that there is no way to avoid the power open flame in the back of the big oven (this is a 48" model) from direct contact with the back of one or more of the grates. The information the company has provided them is that they are working on various possible fixes for this, including using a baffle to shield the back of the racks from the direct flame contact, or redesigning the racks so that they deviate around the flame in the back of the oven. I have been promised that as soon as such a fix becomes available, it will be provided to me.

In my own observations, when the oven is first heating up, which it does with frightening fire-power, that a rack in the bottom position heats to glowing red along the back rod and indeed, deforms from the heat. A second rack at the next level also shows some discoloration, but no significant deformity to date. Now, AFTER the first heat cycle, at the 350-400 degree range, when the burner cycles on and off to maintain the temperature, it does not seem to do so with as much "force," and the rod at the back of the rack does not get glowing red hot. This may be due to the fact that these cycles are pretty short. It should be noted that this oven is a bit noisy when cycling, due to the sound of the power fan in use.

So, those are the negatives. In this open flame system in the oven, there are certainly some safety risks, most outlined in the manual. (Don't use paper or cardboard liners in the back of the oven, for example).

Yesterday I used the stove hard for the first time, making a pre-thanksgiving turkey dinner for 14 people.

Things I simply LOVE about this stove: Big oven does heat up pretty rapidly, for such a big oven (This was my wife's complaint about my old Thermidor 36" range-it took forever to get to stable temperature.) It cooked the 22 pound turkey beautifully, with plenty of room on the rack one up from the bottom. I did turn (rotate back to front) the turkey a couple of times as it seemed to be browning more quickly on the back side than the front. (I did NOT utilize the convection fan for the turkey roasting). Turkey cooked more quickly than I expected, and I will get an internal oven thermometer to double check internal oven temperatures in the future, in case it is running hot). I LOVED the fact that the main rack allowed the heavy turkey in its roasting pan to be slid completely out of the oven for turning or basting and the rack seemed solidly up to the task.

The smaller oven performed reliably, and although narrow, it is deep and high enough that it is quite a competent oven in its own right, without, of course, the problems with an open flame. (Cooked two pumpkin pies perfectly.)

Then there is the cooktop, mine in "standard configuration". For me, it was heaven. The power burners boil large pots of water very quickly, and so efficiently that I didn't bother to start the boiling with covers on most of the time, something I could never accomplish with some other stoves I've used. The little simmer burner works fantastically. I melted two sticks of butter in a sauce pan and watched it gently melt without any browning. Impressive. It kept my gravy hot without boiling, also impressive. While I was doing that I used my old iron wok over the high powered burner. (As you all likely know, the insert removes to allow a wok to sit directly over the flame, without need for any ring support or additional insert. Brilliant concept, and the most high-powered wok cooking experience I've had. (Sautéed brussels sprouts with garlic, for those interested.)

Finally, in terms of hot spots on the oven doors, it isn't an issue for me. This is a serious, home professional chef's stove and needs to be treated with respect. I'm sure a toddler's tender fingers could be burned in the right situation with the stove cranked up in heavy use. I would say that if complete comfort and safety in terms of hot surfaces is important to you or your family, that this isn't the stove for you. I have yet to find it dangerously hot for me, however.

Sorry to go on so long, but maybe my first hand experiences will help someone.

1 Like    Bookmark   November 22, 2014 at 8:56AM
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@gtadross: I worked on bluestars for years and I have nothing to gain if bluestar fails or succeeds.

In my opinion, bluestar has been skirting the issue of excessive heat on the exterior since inception. Luckily, for them, people believe their statements, choose to ignore the heat (justifying the expense of the range?), or are simply incapable of performing the tests properly (ie: trying to use a laser or IR thermometer on sheet metal).

To see for oneself without any gadgetry, simply put bluestar on 350* for an hour and hold your hand on the areas herrdoktorprofessor described. Is that acceptable to you?

I believe those areas are well above the agency requirement of 152* (easily, yet expensively, proven with a surface temp probe by Fluke).

Note: I would not recommend putting your hand on the center of the panel under the door when the burner is on (the burner is right behind that panel on RNB, RCS)--as that area gets quite hot.

For the more scientifically minded, try the test described in this link:

    Bookmark   November 22, 2014 at 9:48AM
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I have one.

Yes the door is hot.

However, I am not in the habit of leaving my hands plastered against the door. If I touch it when it feels hot, I pull away, just like anyone else would. And not in any particular hurry either.

I can stand in front of a very hot oven and cook in the stovetop without any issue.

I think the hot door issue is way overblown. Crossing the street is more dangerous.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2014 at 2:07PM
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Having tried out a Bluestar, I'm of 2 minds on this issue. I agree with nycbluedevil that it's overblown, even for people with small children. Pulling the hand away is how a kid would behave as well. I'm all for having kids teach themselves this stuff (within reason, of course) rather than trying to shelter them from every possible danger. Yes you may get a first degree burn after keeping your hand on it for a minute, but I can't imagine why anyone would touch an oven door for more than a few seconds.

Having said all that, I think it is quite lame that on such a high-end product, they cannot get the door as cool as ovens costing a fraction of what they do.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2014 at 2:47PM
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I'm not an engineer, but I think they vent their oven doors too much. Their old doors had much less ventilation and had insulation batting around the inside perimeter of the door.

I think (dangerously) that you only need a few vent slots for condensation to evaporate. Any more and you're just allowing air convection currents, turning the door into another oven.

What you want is dead air.

The narrow panel below the door helps feed air to the burner, but could probable use a metal(stainless) baffle between it and the burner to absorb the infrared coming off the oven burner...Metal in general doesn't re-emit infrared, so that might help

    Bookmark   November 23, 2014 at 2:40AM
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I wouldn't say the hot door issue is overblown.

Let's face it the doors do get pretty hot. However, reasonable people will have different tolerances/preferences for those hot doors which is a matter of personal preference. I am totally fine with that. The rub is that my wife and I are likely to have very different tolerances for that hot door and the performance tradeoffs as I do 90% of the cooking she is less inclined to tolerate a potential hazard.

I agree with tech though that it is a shame that what seems by all accounts to be an otherwise stellar product is marred by an issue that 99% of range manufacturers have found a way to solve. If not for the hot door I'd have one of these on order. As it stands Bluestar may lose a sale.

    Bookmark   November 23, 2014 at 12:23PM
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I don't have a BS yet (it's on order). However I did have a Viking range for 15+ yrs or so that had a hot oven door. The door would get hot, but certain parts (like where the handle attached to the door) would get extremely hot, as would the glass window on the door. If you touched either of those areas, you pulled your hand away quickly! We got this range just before or right after our oldest dd was born. So both of our kids grew up with this range and nary a problem. We definitely were concerned about this being a problem safety wise, but it wasn't. Kids learn quickly to avoid hot oven doors and parts. Both of my kids touched the hot door at times but no burns occurred and it honestly wasn't an issue. Standing in front of it wasn't problematic either. I doubt the BS is hotter than my old Viking. I wouldn't rule out the BS b/c of the hot door issue.

    Bookmark   November 23, 2014 at 5:36PM
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So, Bluestar has provided a fix for the over-firing problem of the big oven in my Platinum range! The appliance company sent out a technician with a kit provided by Bluestar that addresses the problem. It consists of a connector coupling that apparently narrows the gas inflow or air inflow by a few thousanths of an inch, to slightly lower the "blowtorch" flame effect, AND, a shield that keeps the open flame behind the shield and the front of the stove. It seems to work well and is certainly a lot less frightening and obviously safer than the open flame concept, while still heating the oven reliably and quickly. I'm very pleased with the responsiveness of the company and our appliance company. I'm sure those of you who are worried about too hot oven doors will not be impressed by this development, but for the rest of us, it seems a good solution. The company has also sent me a replacement rack for the one that warped with the heat. I've posted a photo but not sure it will display.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2014 at 11:20AM
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Thanks for the update. I plan to purchase a 36" Platinum in the new year. Hopefully they will have rectified this design flaw by then!

    Bookmark   December 17, 2014 at 6:04PM
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All oven doors get hot. I have 3 in my kitchen and non of them bother anyone. I have 6 yo twins who were 5 when we installed the BS RNB. I had checked out the 'hot' door issue myself at the showroom before purchasing and didn't feel it was out of scope of expectations. One day while baking something in the oven I walked in the kitchen and my boy was sitting with his back against the oven door 'warming' up. He sat there probably 10 minutes, the oven was on a steady 400. I went over and touched the bottom panel (the hottest part on my range) and while it was hot it wouldn't burn my fingers. I have a Wolf wall oven also and while no one mentions it the door on that oven will get equally as hot as the BS door on the bottom panel. My feelings about 'hot' appliances is that it's a KITCHEN, things are supposed to be hot :) We also have always had a wood stove in the house, while the kids were toddling we had a gate around it but it doesn't take a child long to figure out things they shouldn't be touching. My g-daughter burned her fingers on her parents wood stove, blisters on all her fingertips, she's fine but won't be touching it again, guaranteed. Not sure why BS got tagged as the range w/the incendiary oven door but it's people like cassity who continue to try and scare people away and propagate tales of woe. I think people who have experience around commercial kitchens or who have a family history of intense kitchen usage won't even think twice about 'heat' issues. By far there are MANY more happy BS users than unhappy one, I have to believe the majority of happy customers had they're eyes wide open when they went to get a 'pro' style residential range and it probably wasn't they'r 1st foray into 'pro' style appliances. A lot of people are enamored w/the idea of getting a hot rod range in their kitchen but don't really think it out a whole lot beyond that. To me that becomes obvious with the amount of discussions regarding venting and MUA, all the sudden people are surprised there's this whole other issue they have to deal with that was never 'known' to them prior to their interest in going pro.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2014 at 11:00AM
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Does anyone else think that that burner system looks like someone cobbled it together from spare parts in their garage?

    Bookmark   December 19, 2014 at 12:07PM
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Regarding hot oven doors... We have a 15 year Five Star which has the hottest doors ever. Measured at 190° running oven at 450°. Ridiculous. When my son was just starting to learn to walk we had just moved into the house and he placed his hands on the door resulting in blisters. Did fine but we have been very careful ever since.

On another note we put an order in for a new platinum a few weeks ago and I read yesterday about the burner mod. Emailed my dealer who contacted BlueStar to confirm that, YES, the new mod is now installed on all the platinum models at the factory if anyone was wondering.

Hopefully this helps with uneven baking as well? I'm a bread baker and am a bit worried about some of the recent reviews. I will post a baking review in a month or so once the range is in. Anyone else have any baking experiences with the new Burner?

    Bookmark   December 23, 2014 at 5:14PM
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I’ve done some baking with the big oven and have been satisfied with the performance. I think it is important to give the oven plenty of time to equilibrate to even temperature. I’ve used my full size sheet pans in the oven, most recently today to do a huge flourless chocolate sponge for a buche de noel, and I was a bit worried about that as the pan takes up almost all the available horizontal space in the oven, possibly restricting airflow. However, with the heating element in the back rather than the bottom of the oven, I think this is less a concern. I do turn my breads and this large layer once during baking, as I think temperature does vary from front to back a bit. Using the convection function, which I haven’t done much, should reduce that phenomenon I believe.

Happy holidays!


    Bookmark   December 23, 2014 at 5:36PM
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Good to hear Jack. I have a pretty thick stone in my current oven so I'm usually preheating an hour or so at the moment. Do you think the mod made a difference in temp variation?

    Bookmark   December 23, 2014 at 9:59PM
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Sheila Hanlon

We began using the Bluestar 36" Platinum a few days ago. Today I made cookies and they turned out fantastic. The griddle works great. We purchased a ThermoWorks infared thermometer to equalize the heat on the griddle and on the two right hand burners it was easy to do. The oven door is registering about 108 after the oven has been on for 1 hour at 375.

As far as the burners, awesome. The only weird thing (and it is probably just me) but I have forgotten that the burner was still on a few times when it was set to the lowest setting because the blue flame sort of blends in with the black burner.

    Bookmark   January 1, 2015 at 3:38PM
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With respect to the platinum range its fantastic. The griddle and bbq feature is amazing.

1. To use the griddle simply set your burners to similar settings as the burners are infinite control. if your not capable of doing this and need a burner control that has presets don't buy a Bluestar. then the griddle will heat evenly and produce perfect for you.

2. The power burner is new yes and works well.

3. The RCS and The RNB/RPB have different lower kick plates as in the RCS its solid and will get warmer than the RPB/RNB versions as they have louvers in the kick panel letting air circulate.
heck bertazzoni is not aloud to sell in Canada unless the manual clean range has a fan in the oven door to release heat? did you know this? so should hundreds of bertazzoni owners complain about a noisy oven door fan?

  1. Bluestar ovens are manual clean so the oven doors are not built like self clean ones are and have less insulation as same with other brands that are manual clean. Do they get warm? yes how warm? to normal standards as for manual clean ranges.

To focus on Bluestar like you have is insane as many other manual clean ranges have much worse track record.

Also, for Bluestar to innovate in producing the Powr Burner in the main oven is perfect and shows they love to cook and want better.

Bottom line...

Bluestar is built for the home chef and or foodies of the world, its simple in design and operation. If you don't like Bluestar fine you have options.

GE Monogram
fisher & paykel
American range
La Cornue

Folks research is good do your due diligence and make the best choice you can.

    Bookmark   January 5, 2015 at 3:07PM
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Seems you missed Capital off your list of other options. An oversight I am sure.

    Bookmark   January 5, 2015 at 3:57PM
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Several of you have asked for an update �" here goes!
We have been using our 48 inch BlueStar platinum for two months and, quite frankly, are in love with it. Let me try to address some of the questions and/or criticisms that have been voiced.

When we received it and uncrated it we installed the optional casters which made everything else we did thereafter easy. I heartily recommend that any buyer purchase the optional casters. This is especially true if you are using propane fuel as the width of the opening in the back of the range for the connection can make getting the range touching the wall behind it a trial and error event that the casters made much easier than would otherwise have been the case.

The only defects we experienced were a couple of loose screws on nonessential parts and the need to adjust all of the igniters. Everything else was as advertised.

A word about service. BlueStar has changed their service policy and is creating regional service facilities so that BlueStar trained technicians can come out and take care of set up so that we buyers avoid future problems. That sure beats the old scheme where you had to rely on your retailer for set up. We had them come out and within an hour all the igniters, burners and ovens had been tested and were operating properly.

A word about the grill/griddle. It is intended to be used on the second set of burners from the left (assuming you have not ordered a special configuration). The company understands that the temperature of the two burners is different and expects that the manner in which you use it will be to move food from the front towards the back as the food reaches a level of doneness requiring less heat. In other words, it's operation is somewhat similar to a French plate. Frankly, I think you need to try it before criticizing because it gets rather hot.

What doesn't get really hot are the doors, handles and the bottom covers. That is not to say that they don't get warm but then again who in their right mind is going to put their hand flat on an oven door when the oven is in operation?

We have used the ovens individually and both at the same time and find their operation to be pristine.

One surprise, at least on ours, was the burner configuration. First of all, they are heavy! The recommended cleaning before use takes about 1 and 1/2 hours for the oven but the burners are supposed to be cleaned by hand. Only after we removed, cleaned and went to put back the burners did we realize they really aren't interchangeable. So, a word to the wise: afix a number to each burner or take them out one at a time or play iron puzzle as we did (yes, we ultimately got them back in).

The only criticism I can voice of the range is that it does take some getting used to regarding the power of the burners and what setting to use on which burner for what purpose. For instance, the simmer burner has two settings, high and simmer. High is a more powerful simmer and you really need to play with them to understand what power level you want to use.

Someone questioned the quietness of the unit. It is quieter than any other stove I have ever used, electrical or otherwise. The only noise you will encounter is the pop as the flame goes out when you turn your burner off.

We questioned whether or not it was worth going the extra distance to get the platinum and I can tell you now, unequivocally, it was worth it!

I planned on uploading pictures but the back splash is not in yet (we elected to use the 6" Island SS trim and tile backsplash above that) so I'm not going to do so until after that's installed.

Hope this helps all in doubt.

    Bookmark   January 6, 2015 at 5:27PM
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Hey All,
I received our 48" Platinum last week. We ordered the standard burner config.

I'm a bread baker and I was worried that the PoweR burner was going to be an issue, possibly causing uneven heating, or an overly dry oven not conducive to spring.

First 1 week Impression:


The stove-top, as expected, is a beast. I love the commercial feel. I was able to easily adjust all the burners, including the 25k to a nice low level. The simmer burner is a great addition.

The oven racks are VERY solid, and the rack guides pop out easily for cleaning.

You can slide a full sheet pan into the large oven, a 1/2 sheet pan into the small oven. With some room to spare in front and back for circulation.

The oven preheats quite quickly. I baked 2 dozen bialys this am which require a pretty hot oven at 500º. The oven temp as measured with a digital Oven thermometer gets up to 500 in about 20-30 minutes. I have a pretty thick baking stone and this took about an hour to get to the desired temp which was expected.

By turning on the broiler once the oven was at peak temp, I am able to superheat the baking stone to 600º which should be perfect for Pizza etc. (this is after about 10mins)

The oven seems very even for baking. With the convection on, I baked 6 bialys without rotating (something I could not have done with my previous range) and they came out perfect. Without convection, I have baked 4 loaves of bread and these were rotated at 12 minutes 180º which is pretty standard practice for me with other ovens.

So far I have baked Panned loaves only. Oven spring was fine. I plan to use either a Dutch oven or the "Steam Maker Bread Baker" for anything that needs any serious steam as I do not think you will be able to generate steam with the usual methods in this oven with the new burner system.

The oven door temp is totally fine for all those people freaking out. I ran the oven at 500º for 2 hours while I was tempering a stone and the door temp registered around 80-90ª only. Very well insulated. The only hot spot was a small area directly over the window under the oven door handle which was registering at 135º or so. People were complaining about the stove knobs getting warm but I did not experience this. The area directly over the Drip pan (which was NOT extended) read out at about 95º and the knobs were not hot to the touch.

The PowR burner now comes with the flame cover. And no, I do not think it looks cobbled together. No problems with overly hot spots in front of it as measured with an infrared thermometer. I had assumed the fan would blow out which would generate increased heat directly in front, but of course, the fan sucks air in to blow the heat out through the back and then around to circulate evenly.

The PowR burner when on turns on the convection fan at low speed. At higher temp the burner cycles on and off fairly often and the noise (blower) may annoy some people. I'm ok with it.

The oven max temp is 500º although, as mentioned, you can get a bit hotter with the broiler.

As mentioned previously the broiler is a bit small and the starter that ignites the broiler sticks down an inch or so which may be an issue for some?

2 of my front burners tilt to the left a bit. Not sure why they don't seat level (not an issue with the back burners). I simply placed a few washers underneath and they level out, but it seems like this shouldn't be necessary and they should be factory adjusted.

Overall we are very pleased. As a baker/bread baker, I haven't had any issues yet and I would recommend the range to any other bakers out there on the fence.

I'll post a few photos once my tile backsplash is in...


This post was edited by MobyIck on Sat, Jan 17, 15 at 20:54

    Bookmark   January 17, 2015 at 12:11PM
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Superheated stone after 10 minutes broiler burner.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2015 at 12:12PM
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One hot spot after 2-3 hours oven at max 500º temp.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2015 at 12:14PM
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One other point I must make after a couple months of use, is that the broiler was a nice surprise for me in terms of function. Possible because of the height of the top rack position and/or the power of the broiler itself, I achieved results I've never seen in a standard oven broiler before. It sears beautifully and even with the rack in the second highest position, seems to put out a great deal of heat to the surface of steaks, etc. The stovetop grill is fun to use, of course and works great, but clean up is quite a bit easier with the broiler pan. Also, although my Wolf 1500 cu ft/min exhaust hood is great, there is still a bit of smoke leakage possible when you really get the grill going with fatty meat, so the internal broiler can be a bit more civilized in that regard.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2015 at 1:09PM
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New to this forum and reading the Blue Star Platinum reviews with some concern. We are doing a full kitchen remodel and I thought I had settled on a 48" Blue Star Platinum rangetop and the new Bosch Benchmark double wall ovens. I know a lot of the problems seem to be with the Blue Star ovens. What about the burners? Happy with them? Would you buy it again?

    Bookmark   January 30, 2015 at 2:21PM
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I just ordered a Bluestar range top, too. I've done extensive research. There are a lot of threads here at GW on the subject. Be sure to check the date of the thread. Some of the older threads talk about problems that have been addressed.

I think most of the problems seem to involve the ovens in the full ranges. Range tops are pretty simple technology. Putting those together with ovens makes things far more complicated.

The issues with the igniters were fixed a while ago with a change in design. That doesn't mean that you won't ever have to replace an igniter, but it isn't the problem it was a few years ago.

Like you, I think we have chosen the best of the technology, simple range top and excellent electric wall ovens.

    Bookmark   January 30, 2015 at 6:10PM
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@MobyIck: Turn on two or three top burners above the large oven and then take the same door reading.

Also take readings below the handle ends on the right on left.

    Bookmark   January 30, 2015 at 8:15PM
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Just ran both ovens at 500° For an hour and a half. Honestly I can't imagine it would be a problem unless you held your hand on the door for 30 seconds or so. It really is not much of an issue to me and I would not consider avoiding buying the range because of this.

1 Like    Bookmark   February 4, 2015 at 9:06PM
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Was curious because the outer sides of the oven are probably going to get even hotter than the temps you're reading on the air-washed door plus they're up against the wood cabinets.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2015 at 9:14PM
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@appliancetoday (or is it bluestar marketing or a bluestar dealer or, who knows, maybe the president of bluestar?),

I’ll address your post piecemeal.

  1. It’s kind of silly to have a griddle plate over burners of different ratings, but I guess that design issue can be overcome with owner trial and error.
  2. Yes, the RCS has no louvers and the RNB has louvers in the kick panel, but if people who have bought or seen a RNB range can attest—the louvers in the RNB kick panel are completely useless as there is insulation pressing against them, closing them off from the inside.
  3. Addressed below.
  4. I think most will agree that the door and kick panel are HOT.

You stated:

"Also, for Bluestar to innovate in producing the Powr Burner in the main oven is perfect and shows they love to cook and want better."

I heard a different version of that:

Wasn’t this burner system, manufactured by Wayne Combustion, developed for a cooking equipment manufacturer much larger than bluestar, before said cooking equipment manufacturer scrapped the idea in the research and development process? And it was only then that bluestar proceeded to “innovate in producing” what they refer to as the “Powr Burner?”

Above aside, the real question is:

Why have a $400 complex, once-scrapped, unproven “Powr Burner” burner system when a $20 ordinary tube burner produces results that are exactly same thing?

It defies common reasoning and exudes the adage which states “technology for technology’s sake.”

    Bookmark   March 6, 2015 at 5:19PM
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Ted Haines

I am looking at BS Platinum 48" with interchangeable grill/griddle. I called Reading to talk about the different BTU burners with grill/griddle in front to back configuration. I was told I could customize for $180 upcharge and they recommended two 22k burners for that. Just an FYI.

    Bookmark   Yesterday at 6:07PM
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