no shower pan needed?

ckstjamj22April 16, 2008

We are in the initial phases of planning a master bath addition. I was told by a contractor today that if we build the shower with the floor recessed into the concrete slab, we don't need a shower pan and that shower pans just leak anyway. Our current shower is built with this type of floor and it's leaking somewhere...

Opinions?

Thanks!

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ckstjamj22

Let me clarify my earlier post by saying that I'm in Florida and further research has revealed that the 'panless' shower is or at least was a common feature here in the Sunshine State.

Still, it doesn't sound quite right to me...

    Bookmark   April 16, 2008 at 4:50PM
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PRO
Avanti Tile & Stone (Stonetech)

Opinion? Your contractor(?) is full of it. You MUST have a pan, on top of a preslope with a mud bed over it. In the alternative, yes, you can build a proper shower without a pan. It's called Kerdi.

    Bookmark   April 16, 2008 at 5:08PM
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bud_cline

How does this genius contractor propose you keep the water from leaking under the walls of the shower without using one of the mainstream shower pan methods???

    Bookmark   April 16, 2008 at 6:38PM
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ckstjamj22

I can only guess that he expects the 5" concrete curb that's integral to the shower recess, which is integral to the slab foundation, to keep it from leaking. The finished wall material starts 5" above the finished shower floor.

I would be interested in hearing feedback from anybody who might be familiar with this method of construction, which apparently was/is common in Florida and which I believe is still permitted by Florida Building code (not sure on this/still researching). See the pertinent code section and particularly EXCEPTION 2 below:

P2709.2 Lining required. The adjoining walls and floor framing, enclosing on-site built-up shower receptors shall be lined with sheet lead, copper or a plastic liner material that complies with ASTM D 4068. The lining material shall extend not less than 3 inches (76 mm) beyond or around the rough jambs and not less than 3 inches (76 mm) above finished thresholds. Hot mopping shall be permitted in accordance with Section
P2709.2.1.

Exception:
1. Floor surfaces under showerheads provided for rising laid directly on the ground.
2. Shower compartments where the finished shower drain is depressed a minimum of 2inches below the surrounding finished floor on the first floor level and the shower recess is poured integrally with the adjoining
floor.

Here is a link that might be useful: Florida building code

    Bookmark   April 17, 2008 at 11:42AM
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PRO
Avanti Tile & Stone (Stonetech)

"P2709.2 Lining required. The adjoining walls and floor framing, enclosing on-site built-up shower receptors shall be lined with sheet lead, copper or a plastic liner material that complies with ASTM D 4068. The lining material shall extend not less than 3 inches (76 mm) beyond or around the rough jambs and not less than 3 inches (76 mm) above finished thresholds. Hot mopping shall be permitted in accordance with Section
P2709.2.1."

Here, it indicates that a pan IS required, but makes no mention of a pre-slope....and THAT is what eleminates the water from simply "pooling" on top of the pan after it penetrates the floor mud....and make no mistake, it WILL penetrate inasmuch as mud is a porous material. I dunno what the folks in Florida are doing. I guess they figgure everyone ther is rich and retired and can afford to re-build their shower every 3-5 years.......

Oh, and "hot mopping" went out with the whip & buggy.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2008 at 4:51PM
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bill_vincent

Except in California.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2008 at 7:47PM
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ckstjamj22

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2008 at 11:33AM
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