Fisher Paykel Dishwasher Drawers-do you have them?

beekeeperswifeApril 13, 2010

I am in need of guidance. From what I can gather, it's a safe thing to go with FP DDs. Now then, what model?

Do you like/love yours? What features should I be looking for? I cannot find them anywhere--Lowe's sells them but they only display the single drawer. The Sears Outlet near me is listed as a seller--but their inventory is sporadic since it is a scratch and dent store and they never know when one will be in.

Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated!!


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My DD603SS is 6.5 years old.

Features such as rack design and cycle choices are the same on all models. The purchase choices to make are:

1) Single- or double-drawer ... which is a kitchen design factor. Note that they are factory-built and sold as a single or double. Two singles cannot be physically combined into a double, nor can a double be split into two singles. Think of a single- or double-drawer filing cabinet.

2) Exterior finish -- stainless, white, black, or integrated (custom panel).

3) Traditional or Tall model. The Tall model has a deeper drawer to hold larger plates (on the double-drawer model, only the upper drawer is taller).

4) The Tall model is available with or without a built-in water softener.

F&P has a dealer search by ZIP code on their web site. The map allows a maximum search radius of 30 miles, so try ZIP codes of other nearby cities if necessary, or call F&P customer service.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fisher & Paykel Store Locator

    Bookmark   April 13, 2010 at 12:59PM
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Fori is not pleased

The double drawer is pretty much like the single, so if your dishes fit in it, you can assume they'll fit in the double. (I don't know about the tall one--I keep my dishes in the normal size range!)

I had one of the originals and got another after I moved. (I actually got mine at Lowe's and um...should have installed it myself. Actually I did have to eventually, and F&P was very nice about sending me the parts the Lowe's guy threw away...)

I think even the non-tall ones have the softener option but I never really looked into that. The paneled ones require a little more manual reading to change the preferences than the non-paneled ones because they don't have a digital readout. But they are pretty much WYSIWYG.

I like 'em.

    Bookmark   April 13, 2010 at 1:36PM
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I just want to chime in and say I love my dish drawers. We've had them for about 2.5 years. I don't think there are a lot of different features between them, other than the appearance.

Our kids are grown, so being able to run "half loads" is great and there is always an empty drawer to load into, even when we haven't gotten around to unloading the clean ones yet.

The drawers often have water left in the bottom, which can be an issue. While we were away on vacation once the kids kept loading dishes, but never ran it. Some of them got moldy from sitting in the drawer dirty for a week.

Other than that, it is super quiet and very convenient.

    Bookmark   April 14, 2010 at 2:46PM
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Don't know what you mean by "safe" choice, but I've remodeled kitchens twice within 6 years, two separate homes and I've gone with the DDs both times. Both DW and I love the flexibility of running one drawer at the time instead of waiting for the full-size dishwasher to load up to capacity. Depending on what we eat for breakfast and lunch, we can fill one of our drawers with both meals' dishes and save the other drawer for dinner. They are great for parties as we can get our prep dishes cleaned while we entertain and use the other drawer for the dinner dishes once the party is over. We also love not having to bend over when using the top drawer. The results have been great so far and I DON'T miss hand washing my dishes.

There is a slight learning curve to place the dishes correctly for maximum cleaning effectiveness, but once you get the hang of it, it's a piece of cake.

    Bookmark   April 14, 2010 at 2:46PM
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KiffGirl, it's normal for a shallow puddle of water to remain IN the kidney-shaped pump filter area, but no more than that. If there's enough water to slosh about in bottom of the drawer when it's opened/closed, then you're having a problem of some ilk.

All dishwashers (and washing machines also) leave some water in the pump system, both to keep seals from drying out and simply because no pump system can remove 100% of the water.

    Bookmark   April 14, 2010 at 3:14PM
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Thank you, dadoes. It does slosh around at times beyond the little basin. Since we run them on a regular basis it's not usually a problem. I've read that it is a common issue with the FP DD so I assumed it was unavoidable. I'll have someone look at it.


    Bookmark   April 14, 2010 at 6:28PM
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I have a set of F&P Dishdrawers that I put in when I bought my current house 5.5 years ago. I still mostly love them. I'm having problems these days with too much calicum build-up on my dishes. I think for a period of time I was using too much soap (Cascade Complete powder) and it's probably related to having too hard of water. Though I used to never have any buildup in the first ~ 5 years of use. It's been something I'm battling now for the last 3 months or so.

I've had mine serviced a few times by the same appliance repair guy who knows the machine well and even has them in his own home. Things like the motor that lifts the lids up. The top one failed first (presumably since I run that one more often) and then a few months later the bottom one failed.

There's been other repairs, minor in nature that I no longer recall the specifics w/o looking it up.

But I'm in the middle of re-modeling a new house so I came back on THS to do research before I buy appliances for the new house. I'm planning on getting the latest model of F&P for the new house & I think I do want the taller option on the top since I feel that I'd like to have room for utensils. I started laying down utensils after I had both lid motors replaced as I became convinced that standing up (even tilting as much as possible) utensils in the caddy is what led to the shortened lid motor life.

Any how I love how easy, convenient, and well they clean (modulo the streaking I'm getting right now from too much calcium). I'm looking forward to a new set. And if they come with a built in water softener these days - all the better.


    Bookmark   October 24, 2010 at 7:19PM
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Jans ... your problem with mineral residue is almost surely due to all the detergents gone now to non-phosphate formulations. What you may need to do is buy some STPP (Sodium Tripolyphosphate) and mix it into your detergent, about 1/2 to 1 teaspoon (whatever minimum is effective) per dose of detergent. You can buy STPP online at It's a tad expensive, especially with shipping added, but a little goes a long way for dishwasher use.

Note that TSP (Trisodium Phosphate) which can be found at Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. is NOT the same thing as STPP. DO NOT use TSP.

Alternatively, if you haven't already ... try using a FULL dose of detergent ... fill the dispenser cup(s) FULL. The ingredient in detergents now in place of phosphates aren't as good at handling hard water, so a maximum dose may be needed (if not using STPP). Also DO NOT prerinse your dishes, the detergent needs some food soil on which to work. Scrape, yes. Prerinse, no.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2010 at 8:02PM
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I was all set to buy them until I went to the appliance store to check them out. My wife noted that the lower drawer is lower than a standard dishwasher by about 4 inches. If you have back problems, that might be an issue. They seem great, but do check your comfort level in loading and unloading the lower drawer.

You might need to look around to find a place that has them mounted on the floor--say, in one of the model kitchen layouts they have in the appliance stores.. Most places like HD and Lowes have all the dishwashers, FP included, mounted on a little 4 to 6 inch platform, elevating them higher than they would be in a real-world installation. Easier for the salesperson to demonstrate all the features, to be sure, but it doesn't represent exactly what the appliance will be like in real life.

    Bookmark   October 25, 2010 at 9:21AM
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Ahhh, this is MY old thread! I just wanted to say that I did buy the F&P dishdrawers, larger tub on top, with the water softener feature. I absolutely love this thing. If I ever have the opportunity to renovate another kitchen, I will plan on having 2 single drawers, hopefully the singles are Tall, one on each side of the sink. I am not a fan of using the lower drawer regulary, but I do use it at least once a week, for things like the vent hood's filters, and other odd things. It does a great job. It really is true what everyone advised me--there is a learning curve. Since I went into this with so much knowlege, I really haven't had any trouble.

Thanks to all you GW'ers.

    Bookmark   October 25, 2010 at 10:21AM
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Thanks Dadoes,

Do you know how long about that the phosphates have been lowered/dropped? I've used Cascade Complete since nearly day one. I had started out with something else in the beginning, got horrible performance, found out about Cascade Complete somewhere, started using it and never had a problem for years. Though sometime back I tried to use more "earth friendly" soaps (like Orange something) and it gave me pretty much the streaking I'm seeing now with my "regular" detergent umm You're on to something :)

At any rate I ordered a 5lb pail of the STPP from that website and I'm willing to try just about anything to go back to the crystal clear beautiful (I have plain glass dishes - they're getting old and I wonder about etching...) dish washing I had for many of years in my F&P.

I've already tried different rinses and those "Finish" thingees that come in containers that you set in an empty DW & run a "hot cycle" and it's supposed to get the crud calcium, etc. crud off. While they helped for a time they didn't resolve my problem.

I've been on the verge of calling my appliance repair guy back out since he's always fixed anything with my F&P and just tell him not a usual issue like mechanical, etc. but a performance issue and see what he says. But I'll try the STPP first and see.

How many uses of adding it to the Cascade Complete before I may start seeing improvements? I imagine maybe a half dozen or so?...

Thanks much Dadoes. Your expertise is much appreciated!

I'll post back here and let y'all know how it goes. I used Ground Shipping so it will probably take a bit of time...


    Bookmark   October 25, 2010 at 11:46AM
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p.s. I NEVER rinse my dishes before I load them into my F&P. I barely scrape the big stuff off. Have done it this way for 5.5 years. For other readers, my current issue is streaking and not whether the food and grime gets removed - it does. I really believe the high water temperatures the F&P use are the reason for their usual performance.

When my BF moved in it took some convincing to get him to not pre-rinse. He said how do they get clean? You always HAVE to pre-rinse... :) I told him just go with it... and he became convinced. So except for the current calcium buildup/streaking issue, I've always had crystal clear sparkly dishes. And with clear glasses dishes it's quite cool looking IMO.

    Bookmark   October 25, 2010 at 11:58AM
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Seems it has been in the last 6 months or so that all the detergents have gone phosphate-free. Most stores were directed by manufacturers to remove the "old" product from their shelves and send it back when the new versions were stocked ... but I've heard reports of finding a few boxes of phosphated product at back of the shelf at stores that don't rotate stock regularly (also at $-stores, Walgreen's, Big Lots, etc.). I found four boxes of old-formula Cascade Complete at a local grocery a couple months ago.

If there's appreciable/noticeable build-up in the machine again, it may be a good idea to clean it again with the dishwasher cleaning product before commencing use of the STPP, although the additive itself should get the machine back in good condition.

    Bookmark   October 25, 2010 at 5:14PM
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Can you tell me what model number you went with? We've been looking at the Kitchenaid drawers (kudd03dt), but have seen nothing but bad reviews.

I was also told that the F&P models didn't have a disposal in the drain, so had to manually clear out the filters regularly. True?

Any feedback would be helpful. We're looking to place the order this week.

thank you!

    Bookmark   November 8, 2010 at 7:45PM
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The current KA drawers are not sourced from F&P, they're a completely different design ... so which F&P model BeekeepersWife selected would have no bearing on your choice of KA model. :-)

F&P DishDrawers do not have a macerator/grinder. Regards to cleaning the filter ... I've cleaned mine maybe 3 or 4 times in seven years, so it's really no big deal.

    Bookmark   November 8, 2010 at 9:50PM
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we're open to any dd dishwasher as long as people have had good experiences. model numbers appreciated. many thanks.

    Bookmark   November 9, 2010 at 1:44PM
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F&P has three variations -- standard, Tall (upper drawer has more height for tall items), and Wide (a new 36"-wide model, possibly not yet widely available, and currently only as a single). All have the same choice of cycles. Standard and Tall are mechanically identical (except an H in the model number indicates the unit has a built-in water softener), different model numbers for the exterior finish/color/handle. The Wide unit is a little different, has two wash arms to cover the larger width.

KitchenAid/Kenmore/Maytag models are likewise similar to each other being that they're all based on a common design ... some brand-differences in the cycle options, racking, exterior design. Note that the Drawer models were not accessible on Kenmore's web site when I checked a few mins ago (page not found). KitchenAid lists two double-drawer models (one slightly more deluxe) and one single-drawer model. Maytag lists only one double-drawer model.

Also, there's occasionally confusion on the point that double-drawer models cannot be split into two singles, nor can two singles be physically combined into a double. They're built and sold as either singles or doubles ... like a one-drawer or two-drawer filing cabinet.

    Bookmark   November 9, 2010 at 3:53PM
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Do the double drawers fit into the same space as a traditional dishwasher?

    Bookmark   November 14, 2010 at 4:16PM
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Yes, mamabear, they are standard 24" width.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2010 at 8:52PM
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Since there is no grinder in the DD, do you have to clean the dishes before putting them in? IYKWIM

    Bookmark   December 17, 2010 at 7:10AM
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sorry to bring back an old thread, but I found it during a search. I remember looking at these about 3 or 4 years ago and reading mostly bad things. Enough that I put the thought of buying one out of my mind. (I seem to remember no heating element, or wet dishes or maybe I'm crazy?).
anyway, I would love 2 drawers. Judging by this thread have the problems improved?

    Bookmark   February 23, 2011 at 3:35PM
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F&P DishDrawers have been on the market for 13+ years. There have been several revisions on the mechanical design. Some significant changes occurred on the progression from series 602 to series 603. My DD603 will be 8 years in August 2011, so 603 dates back at least that far.

The latest new models are DishDrawer Tall which has a deeper upper drawer to accommodate larger-diameter plates and bulky items, and DishDrawer Wide which is 36" wide instead of the standard 24" (available only as a single-drawer unit).

The machines absolutely do have a heating element, but it's specifically for heating the water, not for drying. Each different cycle targets specific temperatures for the main wash and final rinse water, to a maximum of 163F on Heavy. Water heating is assured ... meaning the cycle is delayed as long as needed to reach the target temp, unlike some units that may have a time limit and end the cycle even if the target isn't reached. Thus, DishDrawers can be used on a cold water connection.

In regards to no drying heater, the heating element is a ceramic disc beneath a stainless steel filter plate that covers nearly the entire bottom of the drawer. Water continuously flows through the filter and over the heater disc. Drying is by residual heat radiating through the filter plate and absorbed into the dishes from the final rinse water. A small fan pulls cool room air into the drawer from a rear duct and exhausts moisture from a vent at the lower front. As with any dishwasher that doesn't have an active drying heater (there are many), rinse aid is required to promote evaporation. Some items (plastics in particular) may have some remaining water depending on:

1) Lower-temp cycles (Normal Eco, Fast, Fast Eco) of course don't heat the final rinse water as much so there's less residual heat.

2) How soon the unit is unloaded after the cycle is finished. Opening the drawer and letting it sit for a while to cool and finish the evaporation process will result in better drying.

Note that washing plastics is very safe being as the heating element is concealed beneath the filter plate.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2011 at 5:03PM
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Dadoes- thanks. that clarifies a lot. I've never had a DW that did not dry. so I guess my question becomes, how moist are the dishes when done? I live in scottsdale, az so humidity is not an issue.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2011 at 9:35AM
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Residual moisture regards to a dishwasher is difficult to quantify. Dishes don't absorb water like cloth does, so one can't squeeze them to determine how much remains. :-) Best I can say is there's a slight air of humidity remaining when the drawer is opened immediately after the end-of-cycle signal triggers. Perhaps a slight puddle around top of the drawer where the seal seats, a few moisture points where items may be touching the drawer interior or each other. Assuming rinse aid is being used and not the Fast or Fast Eco cycles, there's enough residual heat that the remaining humidity/moisture dissipates quickly enough if the drawer is left ajar (probably even more so in your dry environ). Lightweight plastic items which don't retain heat may need a shake-off and/or quick swipe of a towel to fully dry rims and crevasses.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2011 at 12:32PM
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To further clarify on the drying method ... the length of the drying period varies per the selected cycle. I don't pay much attention to it, but I vaguely recall the longest (Heavy cycle) is ~28 mins, with Normal being ~23 mins. The Fast and Fast Eco cycles have a very short dry (5 mins and none). As mentioned above, the drying period consists of a small fan pulling room air through the drawer to exhaust heat and moisture. At end of the defined period when the end-of-cycle signal triggers, the drawer lid unseals and the fan continues to run for 30 mins or until the drawer is opened. The dishes may still be quite warm and opening the drawer will speed dissipation of any residual heat and moisture. One can also do a full flash-dry by canceling the dry period immediately when it begins and opening the drawer, or letting the fan run for a few mins then canceling.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2011 at 6:39PM
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I am very happy with my FP dishwasher drawers. We bought a house a few months ago & it came with the house (about 1-2 yrs old). At first I thought it wouldn't fit things well, but I quickly saw how great it was. I LOVE having the option of filling the top drawer - never bending down - & running the cycle without even having to bother with the lower drawer. Also, the eco cycle of 38 minutes works well, both for dishes with residue (when my husband loads it...) and without (I can't help but rinse...). It's very quiet, cleans well, & saves my back from bending. Thumbs up.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2011 at 11:45PM
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I've had mine for about 2 years now... older model bought on sale but matched the F&P french door fridge & oven I'd chosen for kitchen reno. Dishdrawers are GREAT. To my mind, so much better than my previous regular dishwasher in every way. We are a family of 4 and on most regular weekdays (kids & hubby at work/school all day) I only run 1 drawer/day and do pots and larger items by hand. Works for us. I was forewarned that only regular powdered dw detergent works and results are very good when I buy cheapie no name detergent. Buying expensive eco-friendly stuff produces spotty and grimy results, but I think the harsh cleaners in the cheap stuff are the reason! I do not use the rinse agent at all and have had no problems (glasses clean). Takes a little time to learn how to load it to the max and still get everything clean but with a week's practise, you'll have no trouble. Also, we find them quiet (on an island with counter seating and we still chat with friends over drinks when they are running). I did have to have one drawer serviced a couple times after the install, due to drainage prob's, but they tech installed a new brain (computer board) under warranty and no probs. Had good f/up from F&P on that so no complaints here. Hope this helps!!

    Bookmark   March 21, 2011 at 9:22PM
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Would it be possible to mount one of these single drawer washers UNDER the sink? We are running out of room in a laundry room/snack room renovation, and it would be most convenient to have the dishwasher located in the lower half of the sink cabinet.

    Bookmark   April 6, 2011 at 11:42PM
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A single-drawer unit, possibly, if the under-sink plumbing is arranged accordingly. Installation requirements and dimensions are available at F&P's web site.

    Bookmark   April 7, 2011 at 6:35AM
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I think it is smart to locate the dishwasher drawer in the lower half of the sink cabinet.

To get the under sink drain pipe to be compact enough to leave room for a 15"h DW or any drawer, i.e. to build compact DWV (drain plumbing) under the sink drain hole, look into "remote pop-up drain" and you will see a product that puts the drain pipe into the horizontal plane AND also gives you another advantage, the ability to open and close the drain by a "remote" turn button or pull button. Otherwise you use a "tight elbow" bend which is hard to find in internet searches because the internet search engines never restrict their results to plumbing alone no matter how hard you try to get plumbing-only results. Also, some tight elbows take up a lot of space (if they are slip-joint assembled).

By tight-elbowing the drain, you send the drain pipe back to the wall and there is where you install the P trap, and you also connect the dishwasher drain back there prior to the P trap. ANd yes, it IS code, it is code-allowed, it is not disallowed by "Code", it is legal, it is ok, it is doable, in spite of the fact that people are not familiar with it.

    Bookmark   April 7, 2011 at 8:51AM
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Interesting thread....I've had the FP DDs for over 10 years, and love them. I don't think I've ever used anything but the eco cycle, and yes, sometimes there's a little water left on top of a mug, but not enough to worry about. Just shake it and put it in the cupboard, dry in no time. I set the cycle on delay, it washes in the middle of the night, and all done! by breakfast.

Now for the interesting part -- I'm planning a new kitchen in another house, and every appliance salesperson I've mentioned them to absolutely trashes the DDs. "They don't clean", "they're terrible", "my FIL had one and he threw it out after 3 months..." etc. But judging from the comments here, people seem as happy with theirs as I have been with mine.

So... is there *anybody* out there who has had problems with FP dish drawers? I was planning to put them in the new kitchen but have been getting nervous based on the salesmen's trash-talk...(They all seem to like Miele or Asko... is it just that the commission is better with Miele & Asko?)


    Bookmark   April 19, 2011 at 5:28PM
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My current set of F&P DDs is nearly 6 years old. I had them in my last house, loved them, and installed them in this house when I remodeled the kitchen. And I still love everything about the DDs....because of their dependability, ease of cleaning and thorough cleaning, among other features.

So, I'm not the person to answer your question.

The reason I'm writing is to say that most of the problems I've read from F&P DD owners on this forum have involved 2 causes: 1) improper installation and 2) improper loading. The F&P DDs do install differently from the typical dishwasher, and it seems that many people install them without reading the instructions to catch the unique install requirements for this brand. Likewise, they do load a bit differently, and it's important for owners to take the time to familiarize themselves with loading techniques to deliver clean dishes every time.

Whenever I hear sales people trash the F&P DDs, I always wonder if the customer's unhappiness was caused by one, or both, of these contributors.

With that said, I'll step back and let people who are unhappy with their F&P DDs speak up.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2011 at 6:11PM
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I'm thinking of using the DDs in a new build and would like to ask what might be a dumb question.

It seems like the manufacturers almost encourage you to double stack items by having the fold down shelves so that for example you could put a row of coffee cups on top of the shelves with some bowls beneath.
BUT with only the one wash arm below, does whatever is on top of the shelves ever get clean when there there is an item under them? ... and if you can't have more dishes under the shelves then what is the point of them?
Hope some of you experienced DD users can fill me in!

    Bookmark   April 19, 2011 at 10:12PM
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Depends on what's placed below. Obviously a large mixing bowl or saucepan directly below a shelf would block spray to items above. A row of glasses under the shelves, with bowls and such placed in the adjacent row of tines typically leaves enough space around/between items for the spray to get through. This is part of the learning-curve, discovering workable loading patterns to one's unique mix of dishes and utensils.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2011 at 11:01PM
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Just another user report. We are replacing 5 year old double dish drawers today, so this represents the entire period of use. Ambivalent about them would sum this up.

Its hard to beat the ergonomics. On the other hand, its very easy to beat the layout with a standard dishwasher if you want to be able to wash large or tall things. If you have the space for multiples, maybe consider doing a drawer-style and a regular dishwasher.

They worked ok - not great for a dishwasher, but ok. It does seem like the change in dw detergent formulation made it worse. For pots - they're pretty bad. All the pots needed to be prewashed before washing - even running the extra long cycles, it could not remove the slightest ring - not even just a little tomato.

For repairs, when they were new, we had a "dw is crazy" problem that took several calls before it was finally fixed under warranty. That's been it until a week ago. Now, "crazy dishwasher" needs about $600 of stuff (lifter motors, board cover and logic board) and nobody is sure that would actually fix it - or if we would need another few hundred bucks worth of calls. There are no codes or other available diagnostics. If you're curious, its turning itself on randomly, aborting cycles or changing them and running the water heater with an empty dishwasher. We have been told there is a slight chance also of it catching on fire.

So, we're going to go back to a standard design, but with an adjustable top rack. It will let me send the oven racks, grates, sheets and sheet pans, exhaust fan filters through the dishwasher and perhaps have enough power to do a pot used to heat up a can of soup. We don't have a garbage disposal on the sink but the new dw has a hard food disposal.

I know that I'll miss the drawers for a while, because the form of having a high dishwasher is that good. I hope that the other features I gain will be some compensation in time - not handwashing every pot would be nice. Being able to feel a little virtuous at spending less is good too.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2011 at 11:45AM
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I'm not understanding the part about "running the water heater with an empty dishwasher" and "risk of fire." There's a non-resettable thermal fuse on the heating element plate that blows if the element overheats. This happens very quickly in a dry unit -- the service manual warns not to run the element without water in diagnostic mode for more than few seconds to avoid risk of blowing the fuse.

I believe the [lack of phosphates due to] detergent formulation change you mention is the source of your cleaning problem, same as it has been regards to so many other dishwashers nowadays. Since the change, I've been adding phosphates (STPP) and have not had any performance deterioration. I also found and bought a stash of phosphated Cascade at a local grocery last year. A few days ago I washed a 2-quart Pyrex measuring bowl in which packaged pasta salad had been micro-boiled. It had the resultant starch ring, sat for a couple days before washing on the Normal Eco cycle, and came out pristine. Oatmeal, scrambled eggs, soup, rice (packaged Jambalaya) ... I don't have a problem with any of them.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2011 at 4:04PM
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I see this thread has popped back up again.

Just as an update, I've had mine for a year, they are perfect. The other night I put a 9x13 glass dish that I baked scalloped potatoes in, in the load. I only removed the loose food before putting it in. There was lots of burned on cheese and heavy cream in that pan. I did run that load on heavy. It was sparkling clean. I was again, very impressed.

I would not hesitate to buy them again.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2011 at 12:07PM
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I am once again going to resurrect this thread. I've had my FP dish drawer (yup, just one) for a few years now, and it is the very first dishwasher I have ever had. I have a couple of questions which have been answered but .... I still don't quite understand.

First of all, how can it be that the dishes don't get cleaner if they are rinsed first? Okay, okay, I washed my own dishes for over 60 years and so I'm having a hard time with this. Is not rinsing them still correct IF the dishes might sit in the drawer for two days before it is run?

And...hmmm...did I have a second question? Well, I guess I'd like to know whether you think if I'm using the CitraDish powder I should/would/could order the STPP before or after I start trying to wash without rinsing. It seems to me that I often get knives back out with gunk still on them, which is why I am scared to stop rinsing.

Please help me do less unnecessary work. Twist my arm.


    Bookmark   May 6, 2011 at 1:34PM
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The ingredients and chemicals in dishwasher detergent need some grease and food soil on which to "activate." Remember that rendered fat was/is used as an ingredient in lye/homemade soap. If not enough food soil, the cleaning chemicals may attack glassware and dish surfaces, resulting what's called etching, which is milky/crazed surface damage that is not repairable.

Depending on how long it takes to collect a full load, I routinely leave dishes waiting overnight to ~4 days before washing.

I'm not familiar with CitraDish, but looked it up online. I hope you're using the powder (liquids/gels are NOT to be used in DDs). The powder mentions enzymes, the liquid & gel do not. Enzymes are a crucial ingredient for dissolving food soils. CitraDish is of course a phosphate-free product, so adding STPP surely could help.

    Bookmark   May 6, 2011 at 3:59PM
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Thanks, Dadoes, I was hoping you would reply, and now the answer makes sense. You can relax: I AM using the powdered CitraDish. I use it because for some reason I suspect that it is not too damaging to the environment, and all of my kitchen water goes to grey water.

I will try running the washer without rinsing (oh my....) and will also order some STPP.

You also explained why my cheap French glass bowls are all toast....etched toast to be sure, but toast.

Many thanks


    Bookmark   May 6, 2011 at 5:14PM
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The STPP arrived today.

I am hoping this does the trick, since running the dishwasher without rinsing left me with yucky dirty dishes: coffee stuck inside the bottom of latte mugs, gunk in a spray pattern on the outside of wine glasses, etc. Yucko.

So, remind me: how much would you suggest adding to a one-drawer load? And, does any go into the small pre-wash bin or does it all go into the main wash bin?


    Bookmark   May 16, 2011 at 5:33PM
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I premix detergent and STPP into a separate storage container at a ratio of 1 part STPP to 3 parts detergent. Blend thoroughly and use in the dishwasher at the same dosage as regular detergent. You may need less STPP than a 1:3 ratio depending on local water conditions.

    Bookmark   May 16, 2011 at 6:10PM
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Thanks Dadoes. The water is hard well water which then goes through an (expensive) Culligan system to remove iron (which made it smell terrible) and also soften it.

I'll see what works.

    Bookmark   May 16, 2011 at 7:43PM
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We inherited one of these when we bought our house a year and a half ago. If anyone wants it let me know - I'd be glad to be rid of it. Dishes don't come clean - nothing fits - hard to stack efficiently - water collects in unused drawer every time. I will never ever have another one of these - can't wait for this one to die.

    Bookmark   June 19, 2011 at 5:35PM
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CeeKee, water should of course not be found in the drawer that wasn't used after running a cycle in the other. That indicates an installation problem (drain hoses not routed properly). My DD is 2 months shy of 8 years old and I've not ever had a "stray" water incident.

Regards to your cleaning issues, no such problems here, either. Difficult to comment on yours without further details -- detergent choice, cycle selection, loading methods, etc. I routinely run items like this (baked cherry cobbler) ...

which come out like this ...

    Bookmark   June 19, 2011 at 6:17PM
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My FP stacked drawers are 10 years old. Seldom use the lower drawer -- just enough to keep it 'alive'. I have integrated panels to match my cabinetry.

My first year with these was terrible. The Abt appliance repair guy was here five times. Eventually FP replaced the whole shebang and gave me a new warranty. As I recall the problem was that the lid wasn't closing properly. We also had 'phantom' starts and stops when nobody was in the kitchen. The wood panel became cracked along the top from steam escaping. (So, it was both a defective unit and defective installation. Lucky me.)

I like the convenience, but wonder why the cycles take S00000 long? HOURS! I use 'normal' and not 'eco'. How long *should* it take from start to 'ready to unload'? Perhaps it IS ready, but it keeps humming and doesn't want to unlock. If I start it at 7 p.m. it's 9 p.m. before it can be unloaded.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2011 at 11:26AM
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Fori is not pleased

I moved into a house with a dying dishwasher and was happy to replace it with my third dish drawer. I installed it myself this time because as simple as it is to install, your standard guy from Lowe's/plumber/GC can't do it due to lack of reading instructions.

I went tall tub this time. Best dish drawer ever!

    Bookmark   June 20, 2011 at 12:25PM
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Fori is not pleased

By the way, if your dishes don't fit, you need to learn to load your dishwasher (unless they are plates--then you're just out of luck).

And if the dishes don't come clean, either it's not working properly need to learn to load your dishwasher.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2011 at 12:26PM
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Non-integrated models have an LCD that indicates the initial estimated/default cycle time, which then converts upon starting the cycle to a count-down timer. You're not seeing that info on an integrated model. Cycle times and target temps occasionally change a little, even within the same model series, due to revisions on the control board software.

My DD603 has these default times. The target temps and wash/rinse/dry sequences for your cycles should be stated in the instruction manual, but the cycle times are not.
Heavy - 132 mins - 150F / 163F
Heavy Eco - 112 mins - 140F / 150F
Normal - 115 mins - 140F / 150F
Normal Eco - 88 mins - 125F / 125F
Delicate - 86 mins - 120F / 130F
Delicate Eco - 72 mins - 115F / 125F
Fast - 56 mins - 115F / 115F
Fast Eco - 38 mins - 105F / 105F
Rinse - 12 mins

The initial time is an estimate because DishDrawers *always* heat the main wash and final rinse to specific target temps per the cycle selection, and the cycle is delayed as needed so the target temp is *always* reached, even with a cold fill. Of course, how much heating is needed depends on several factors: household water heater temp, supply line distance, etc.

I'm not understanding your comment "it keeps humming and doesn't want to unlock." A cycle can be paused (or canceled) and the drawer unlocked at any time ... unless child-lock or drawer-lock is engaged, in which case simply disengage the lock. After the formal drying period, the lid should unlock and the drying blower continues to run for 30 mins or until the drawer is opened. Some models had an "enhanced drying" option (yours probably doesn't have it) that keeps the lid locked and the blower running for 4 hrs, but that doesn't prevent it from being paused or canceled and unlocked.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2011 at 5:37PM
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dadoes -- Thanks for the time chart. I guess ours is running as it should. WHY do these take so long? The 10-year-old cheapie GE normal-size DW at our Maui condo is done in under half an hour; cleans great.

We have a recirculating pump on the hot water line at our home; get HOT water in seconds at every tap in the house. Now I'm wondering if the thing is connected to the cold water line!

    Bookmark   June 20, 2011 at 5:55PM
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The Rinse-only cycle does not heat, so run it, perhaps twice in immediate succession, and pause the cycle during the 2nd run to check what's the water temp. That should tell you if you're running on a hot or cold connection.

Dishwashers nowadays all are running longer cycles than in the past. Some brands/models, with the longest cycle and all "super-scrub" and heat options selected, can go 3 to 4 hrs. The latest redesigns are using less water per fill and lower-volume pumps so more time is needed to do the job, for enzymes in phosphate-free detergent to deal with food soils instead of brute-force spray pressure. Your Dishdrawer takes only about 0.8 gals per fill. Newer models are a bit less, I think 0.7 gals.

Complaints about long cycle times are common from people replacing older machines with new. I'm not understanding why it's a problem, other than that it's different and unexpected compared to what one is accustomed. My thoughts are ... the dishwasher is doing the work for you, be happy you have it. :-) I typically start mine before going to bed, awaken to clean dishes ready to unload. I don't stand over it, beating it with a stick, yelling "HURRY!" LOL.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2011 at 8:59PM
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My wife and I really like the advantages of the dish drawers. I'm glad that the majority of the posters here have had good experiences, even with older models.

But there are so many sites out there that have so many reports of repair issues, that we are really hesitant to get the FP drawers. Some are probably installation issues, some are probably older models, or other problems. Hard to figure out what the real story is (as you know). Did everyone here get a certified installer for theirs?

One question I have is, with no food grinder in it, what happens to all the food that isn't rinsed? I mean if you put plates with spaghetti in there without rinsing, what happens to the spaghetti? Where do the food chucks go if they aren't ground up going into the drain?

    Bookmark   July 20, 2011 at 6:50PM
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Most residual food material should be dissolved by detergent enzymes, assuming a detergent containing enzymes is used. Small particles will flush to the drain. Larger pieces would be caught in the pump filter.

Two questions, however: 1) How much spaghetti are you intending to put into the machine?; and 2) Why would you toss a notable amount of spaghetti (or any food for that matter) into your dishwasher instead of eating it? :-)

Dishwashers, whether with a food grinder or not, aren't intended as full-service garbage disposers.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2011 at 12:23PM
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Good point.
Which commercial is it where they put a platter with an entire chocolate cake in the dishwasher?

I guess best practice is to scrape off the main food pieces, but no need to rinse or wipe.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2011 at 12:59PM
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i had fp drawers for about 5 yrs. 2 weeks ago i had a repair for one thing and prior to that, maybe 2 others. a few days later the drawers started on their own and flashed an error "f1". we turned off the power and it did it again, repeatedly until we turned off the circuit breaker. repairman came and said it overflowed and we let it dry for 24 hrs and tried it again. seemed okay but started all over again after the next load. it might have been the circuit boards to the tune of $300 x2 plus labor! i bought a new conventional dw. i loved them when they worked. the repairman said that his company sold six sets of them during the last six years and all have now been replaced! they no longer carry that maker.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2011 at 1:48PM
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Controller boards can be had from for $140 each. And it might not be those boards at fault, not on both drawers at the same time. There's another board down in the machine's base that that has the flood-sensor on it, which costs only $50.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2011 at 2:35PM
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Right. Scrape, yes. Prerinse, no.

Cake demos are exactly that ... a demo of what the machine can do in an instance, but not intended as the daily load, every day.

That being said, I ran this item through my DD this morning. Microwave oatmeal with raspberry jam added, boiled over. Scraped with a spoon. There's oatmeal residue smeared all over the inside and out, but not two or three spoonfuls of it left uneaten. I could have scraped better, but I left it this way *specifically* for posting the pics here. It wasn't initially planned ... I saw blgros's question last night, and the oatmeal happened to boil over this morn, LOL.

And cleaned as per such, freshly unloaded and still warm:

    Bookmark   July 21, 2011 at 2:37PM
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Back again.
Since I last posted here I have bought and add the STPP to my dish powder (1/3 STPP to 2/3 dish powder), and all is well with one exception: egg residue on stainless steel.

Is there something about this particular combination? When I scramble eggs and use a stainless steel utensil, that utensil never ever seems to come clean.

Now, this is obviously a piffling problem, because washing a spoon or fork or two a few times a week can't possibly be enough to upset a person, but....I am curious as to why this one food on this one surface seems so resistant to my FP dish drawer.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2011 at 1:58PM
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I fell in love with our DD when we had it installed in our new house 11 years ago. It was the most convenient dw we ever had, enabling us to constantly keep dishes cycling between use and the drawer. However, we had multiple problems until FP finally replaced the unit out of warranty. The replacement worked well for a while, until the upper drawer fizzled out, leaving us with only one functional drawer. The cost to repair was about $600, and I vowed never to go back to a DD no matter how convenient it was.

We went with a Miele, and all I can say is that we miss the DD. The Miele doesn't load well, as the rack slots are closely spaced. We've also found that, because of the close spacing, sometimes food particles are left behind. It also doesn't dry as well; we use plastic cups for the kids, and the bottoms are filled with water, necessitating shaking the cups in the sink and leaving them out to dry. The FP always left the cups dry.

However, the Miele has been problem free. It's also nearly silent.

I can't believe that, despite my poor experience with the FP DD, I'm thinking of going back to one. For now, we'll stick it out, but the daily routine of shaking and leaving the cups on the counter is growing old.v

    Bookmark   October 24, 2011 at 10:06PM
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Don't know if you're still following this thread, but....
you have the same plates as my mother. Almost made me cry!

    Bookmark   November 24, 2011 at 12:55PM
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clueless - omg mine too! musta been a popular pattern in ~1973??

    Bookmark   November 24, 2011 at 11:10PM
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just in case anybody still uses this thread for the DD decision. Here are some photos that tell the story of my dish drawers after being used for over a year:

Scraped 9x13 pans, one with "Dirt" the other "Cherry Cobbler". These had leftovers in them in the fridge for a few days. Then I scraped them, and the experiment began.

In the bottom drawer waiting "to go"

In the bottom drawer, after cycle:

And finally, on the counter for their inspection:

They were perfect.

We are currently picking out appliances for our to-be-built home. I am getting 2 uppers on each side of my sink. Love them.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2011 at 8:04AM
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Don't know if it's OK to say this in polite company, but I think my mother's were free!! You know, if you spend a certain amount at the supermarket each week, you get a free place setting, and she got herself a whole service that way!! Definitely 1970's, and still going strong after all these years!!

Beekeeper's wife, your photographs are amazing. If I saw that on a commercial, I wouldn't believe it. This machine is going on my wish list!

    Bookmark   November 25, 2011 at 9:10AM
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I guess you could say the proof is in the pudding......

I guess you have to know what that "Dirt" recipe is to get that humor.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2011 at 9:16AM
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Which cycle was used and what's your detergent of choice?

I notice your DD has the on-board water softener, and that you're apparently either not using rinse aid or the dispenser needs a refill. :-)

    Bookmark   November 25, 2011 at 9:53AM
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As long as beekeperswife got this post going again, I just wanted to add this. Due largely to this post we recently purchased the F&P duel wash drawers. We absolutely love them. As we are empty nestes we normally only run the top drawer, and DW loves not having to bend over to load and unload. I agree with whoever said that most problems were due to improper installation or loading. I saved $700 because there was a dent in the top drawer skin. The replacment was $88 plus TX and shipping and literally took about 2 minutes to do. I installed the drawers myself being carefull to read all the instructions for once, and made sure it was perfectly level. I expalined to everyone who might load it to make sure nothing stuck above the surface where the cover seals because it could leak or damage the cover motors. Yesterday was Thanksgiving and the top drawer was running while the family gathered and we finished food prep. You couldn't even hear it run. After dinner we loaded the dishes in the bottom drawer, and emptied the top drawer to receive desert dishes lster.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2011 at 11:32AM
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I either used Normal or Heavy, I can't remember...this test was done in the summer. We do have the water softener and we do keep the salt & rinse aid filled. Probably had just run out after that cycle.

I will add, my glasses have never looked so good. I wonder if the water softener is partially responsible for that.

I have noticed that the dishes do come out clean on the Fast cycle too.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2011 at 11:49AM
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I'm hoping one of the experts here can answer this. The soap dispenser - should this be open after the cycle is complete? How does the machine actually dispense the soap? There are two compartments, should I fill both? What is the capacity of the rinse agent tank?

Love the machine and once I relearned how to load it I get great results. I'm just curious about the soap.

    Bookmark   August 14, 2012 at 12:24PM
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The detergent dispenser should not be open at end of a run, unless the user forgot to close it at the start. Detergent is dispensed by flushing the fill flow through the cup. A diverter directs the flow through either the prewash or main wash cup at the appropriate time.

Follow your user instruction manual for when to fill the prewash cup. Some cycles run a prewash period, some don't ... and the programmed cycle sequences have changed over time through the successive models, and depending on the target marketing area for a given model (US/Canada, European market, Asian market, NZ/Aus).

The rinse aid dispenser tank holds approx 50ml, which should last for about 25 loads at mid-level dosing. Don't fill it further than to just see the liquid coming up at the opening. It can be tricky to fill due to the angle-of-attack. Use a small funnel for better aim, and extra light if needed. Spilled rinse aid can cause excess foaming.

    Bookmark   August 14, 2012 at 12:44PM
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MaggieM, mine does that sometimes and I don't know why. It's very much once in a blue moon kind of thing.

Funny that this thread popped back up. This was from when I was thinking about buying them the FIRST time. I have since moved, built a new house and installed 2 single tall drawers, one on each side of the sink.

Still loving them

    Bookmark   August 14, 2012 at 4:07PM
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Dadoes - Thanks - that was quick.

And now I can stop caring if the soap dispensing drawer is open or closed. It seems to be my lower drawer and only on a rare occasion. Not worth thinking about other than to wonder how soap does dispense.

RE the rinse agent, I've been just squirting a little in every now and then. It struck me I should just find out how much it holds, measure it out and pour through a funnel.

    Bookmark   August 14, 2012 at 5:25PM
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Do be sure to close the dispenser before starting a load, otherwise the detergent will all be flushed out by the spray arm during the first phase of the cycle and there won't be any for the main wash period.

    Bookmark   August 15, 2012 at 10:10AM
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Since this thread is active, I just have to add a second (or third) (or fourth) vote for the F&P dish drawer. We put one in (actually I put it in) and it's worked like a charm.

I have yet to put "dirt" through it, but the install was a breeze (has a plug end on it) and we had the cabinet made before hand (give the cabinet makers the specs of the dish drawer) so the actually install work was really really simple.

Good luck.

    Bookmark   August 15, 2012 at 12:58PM
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I do close the dispenser since that seemed to make sense that it should be closed. But all the research in the user guide for the volume of the rinse agent was a good thing. I learned two things:

1. Even without an LCD display I do have delay start AND I found out how to read fault codes.
2. I can lock the controls so that when I'm playing bartender at a big party (my unit is in an island) I don't keep starting up the dishwasher accidentally.

    Bookmark   August 16, 2012 at 9:42AM
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Has anyone installed the FP tall double drawer? If so, does it fit in standard base cabinetry or do you need something taller than the standard 36" cabinet height?

    Bookmark   November 5, 2012 at 10:56AM
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Installation instructions and measurements are available for download in .pdf format at F&P's web site.

Per F&P info, Tall units are a little higher and deeper.

Tall = 22-15/16" deep, height adjusts from 34" to 36-1/2"

Standard = 22-1/2" deep, height adjusts from 32-5/16" to 34-5/8"

Here is a link that might be useful: Fisher & Paykel : DishDrawers

    Bookmark   November 5, 2012 at 11:43AM
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Just want to add another very happy DD user. We installed ourselves 3 months ago. We were undecided for about 2 years since our other was working just ok. Our kitchen is a very efficient galley and a standard dishwasher when that big door lowered just to load, or even to put in something small that would take up the entire 'highway'. Every sales person gave me a 'no comment', 'no one buys it so i don't know', etc. It has been great. Cleans well on eco. So quiet. We cook ALOT from scratch and it holds everything. May run it twice a day on a weekend but so easy to load and unload. Yes, a learning curve as with any new appliance. So great for a busy work week when we mostly have just coffee cups, travel mugs and small bowls and containers. Running it every other day. I hated running the old one with just the top rack full. We just have the single tall DD. Plenty big for even large platters. I did immediately ordered extra side folding shelves since we have so many smalls. They fill up quickly and always get spotless clean. I have checked the drain a couple times just to be sure. One dime size piece of kale. No bending over ever. So easy to access the drain with a flip-up cage.
We installed a full pull out drawer where the lower unit for a double would be to hold my cast iron and crueset stock pots. Love having the extra storage.
Finger crossed that it has a long life with us.
I've not used a rinse aid yet. Just not sure what to buy.
It was tricky to install since it is not just a slide in and level job. (We put extra cleats underneath on both sides) just extra security since it is suspended in the cabinet area.
Reading this thread last year is what sold me. So glad i did.

    Bookmark   April 23, 2013 at 9:52AM
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My sister and my empty nester inlaws both had the FP DD and both replaced within three years. It took months for repairs to be completed because they had to keep ordering parts. Both were serviced within the first year. They don't live in the same area, so it wasn't the same repair people. I would check the online reviews to see what the repair rate are for them. They may have fixed whatever the problem was in the last year.

    Bookmark   April 23, 2013 at 6:36PM
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Any more updates on this? Consumer reports rated them 66 vs 80 for some regular DWs. That seemed like a big difference. I went into Sears and they told me they stopped carrying them, maybe a year ago because there were so many complaints/repairs. It could be $500 for one repair.
I was wondering if they had made improvements since Sears dropped them

I was thinking of either getting two full DWs or one full one and a FP (not sure tall or std). The issue is that when we occasionally have dinner for 12-14 people, the regular DW isn't enough. We end up hand washing the salad plates/forks and using them for dessert and we hand wash the pots and maybe a few other things that won't fit in the load. We don't entertain that much now, but I can see it increasing with our new house. We have 3 yr old twins so I was thinking the half drawer would be good for glassware each day. Right now, I hand wash their sippy cups and dishes after each use (that's 4x a day) as I didn't want stacks and stacks of plastic stuff. I do give them correlle plates to use. I can see having a days worth and then running the FW. Right now, we run our DW every 3 days or so.

The sales person said some of the full dishwashers have a half cycle, but I'd have to not have any dishes in the bottom because you don't want the food from that to accidentally spray on the "clean" dishes/glasses in the top rack. I kind of didn't like all of the space taken up for the rare time I would use 2 full DW but it is hard for me to predict our needs as our family grows and elderly MIL ends up staying with us more, etc. But we will have a big kitchen

Would a home warranty plan help minimize repairs for
the FP? What combo do you recommend 1.5 DWs or 2 Full.

For background, I once bought a vanity at Lowes despite some reviews about a problem with the sink not draining completely as I thought it was a one-off but I had the same problem. I was really annoyed but fortunately, was selling the apt.

Thank you!

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 10:58PM
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I just installed one, and I find it noisy -- not as loud as the 23 year old GE it replaces, but a world apart from a truly quiet one. We really haven't used it yet, except to wash some clean dishes that had been in storage, so I cannot comment on the cleaning, or even the loading. My wife, who insisted on getting the drawers (back problems, she will use the top drawer 90% of the time) was amazed by the noise, but wouldn't come out and say it. Her current DW is a mid-scale Miele, and I cannot hear it run except a bit when it pumps out.

    Bookmark   July 20, 2013 at 12:31AM
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Thanks for posting. I don't mind noise that much (though I do prefer faster cycle times). It really only takes me a few minutes to wash the kids' cups and dishes but I have a lot of allergies and the soap irritates me and even the kitchen gloves bother me a little.

Are you using it as your primary dishwasher? Please keep me posted as to how it is once you start using it more.

Anyone elee? Thank you

    Bookmark   July 20, 2013 at 10:24PM
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Been a full year with mine in the new house. I don't find mine noisy at all, they are the integrated ones, perhaps the wood front makes them quieter? So quiet that we usually try to open them when they are running. Don't want to jinx anything so I'm not saying what I'm thinking about how they are working ;-)

You need to have them installed properly. That is key. Personally I have my doubts about all the Sears guys installing them correctly. Maybe that's why THEY have issues. Good installers go to training at F&P. Not saying they have to go, but when you hear someone telling you about their last visit to training classes it gives you a good feeling.

I do use the Fast cycle a lot and it works just fine.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 10:36PM
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ct-newbie. If you have the room for two dishwashers i would recommend a tall dish drawer for one of those. You have alot of 'smalls', cups and bowls and everyday / all day sippies and lunch plates, snack plates. I have the tall dish drawer for 6 months now. Works great, easy loading, not at all loud. What we use everyday is more available...I used to do coffee cups, drink glasses,travel mugs, glass lunch containers by hand. No more. So easy to load and run every other day during the week and often twice a day weekend.
It has to be poor installation, and/or not loading properly. Not using the correct settings for the load.
Or something falling below the cage to prevent the arm from spinning. I often have to look to see if the running button is lit as it is often very quiet. Noise is directly related to what is being cleaned...a spray of water hitting different surfaces will be different on glass than a big thick plastic bowl. A drumming sound.
If your cabinet frames are particle board rather than solid timber, you might need some extra support.
If anyone in your family is the square-peg-in-round-hole type personality...stuffs with brute force, does not bother to put lids back on things, (lid not tight on tomato juice then lays it on its side in fridge so it leaks, lol, etc) may not be the one for you...but that is tough on any appliance.
If i had the room for two dish drawers, one on either side of sink, that would be my choice now that i have one...
if never having used one, i would get a regular full and a drawer for everyday things.

(i'm running an extra load this morning right bowls and big things. I can hear it more than usual because of the big surfaces the water is hitting)

    Bookmark   July 22, 2013 at 10:22AM
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Thank you Sleeven and Beekeeper! Beekeeper, do you also think I should get the tall drawer? Have you heard of either drawer being better than the other? I was thinking maybe it could go under the microwave drawer, though it might be able to fit next to it if I go with a 24"? microwave drawer. I fear I might be going overboard with appliances but that's another thread

We don't cram things in but i have, on occasion, chipped a glass because I was rushing or accidentally put in a wine glass thinking it would fit and then crack. Interestingly, the GE washer repair man said cramming the washer abuses the machine and he could tell I didn't overload my wash. He was there to fix a torn gasket - maybe a pen or keys got stuck

I asked one of the KDs about the FP. He said his guys had trouble installing it and they can install anything. I think something didn't align or close? Ultimately, at his expense, he paid a FP servicer to install it. So again, we're back to installation. Did they read the manual? I didn't ask for obvious reasons. He said he liked the concept but not the execution (he meant FP's execution, not his installers) :). He said they were delicate machines. But I can't help but be intrigued by it and I don't like the thought of a second DW sitting half empty when I could have drawer space for something else.

Thank you!

This post was edited by CT_Newbie on Mon, Jul 22, 13 at 23:36

    Bookmark   July 22, 2013 at 11:30PM
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I would not get a dish drawer if it can not be placed at counter height. Sort of defeats the convenience and purpose if down low and under another appliance. If it is a second dishwasher for everyday glasses etc, a reg drawer i suppose would be fine. I have the tall drawer as my only washer and works for the two of us just fine.
Like all dishwashers i have had, i do sometimes need to re-load things and re-arrange after DH, niece, sloppy friend, (haha), puts something in catty-whompus. Would hate doing that down on the floor level or bending over.

It isn't the manual instructions at installation, it is the design of the clip system, the design overall. It does not universally fit all installations as all cabinets are not alike. It often needs tweaking. Reading the instructions is a must for sure. But an installer needs a bit more 'outside the box' thinking skills if all does not go smooth. We installed ourselves and added support cleats and double checked everything twice.
I'm always surprised how many people do not read manuals. For their appliances, their cars...

    Bookmark   July 23, 2013 at 1:38AM
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I installed my DishDrawer myself 10 years ago. Then uninstalled it and moved it to a new house. No trouble either time, follow the included installation instructions.

    Bookmark   July 23, 2013 at 8:11AM
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I have two F&P Tall double dishdrawers. I definitely agree with sleevendog - don't get one if it's not going to be at counter height. With the double drawers, I almost always use only the top (tall) one. The bottom gets used occasionally for overflow, but it is cramped and not nearly as convenient. The tall tubs, when mounted under the counter, are fantastic in my opinion. I would get them again in a heartbeat.

    Bookmark   July 23, 2013 at 10:15AM
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Thank you all! Yes, we can put it at counter height. I see what you mean. Thanks for the clarification on the install

    Bookmark   July 24, 2013 at 10:56PM
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If you plan on installing an airgap (required in California) for the dual drawer, I suggest that you get the dual-airgap (2 in 1). It will lessen or eliminate the possibility of waste water from one drawer backing into the other. I understand that there is a simple flap valve on the output of each drawer, but I have read that these sometimes fail. Unfortunately, the dual airgaps are expensive, like 6x to 10x the price of a standard cheapie.

    Bookmark   July 25, 2013 at 2:20AM
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Thanks Atto! I was only planning to buy a single drawer since it is in addition to a full regular DW. Is there a specific air gap needed for a single tall drawer?

    Bookmark   July 27, 2013 at 12:29AM
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Single drawer units don't need a special air gap.

Double-drawer units do because they're two separate dishwasher mechanisms, each having a drain hose. The dual air gap is internally split to prevent internal backflow from one drain hose to the other.

However, depending on your drain configuration for two dishwashers you may need a dual air gap if both are going to drain to one plumbing point.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2013 at 10:37AM
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I have mine since 2009 and love them. No issue/repair ( knock on wood ) and I have one drawer on each side of my sink so no lower drawer to bend over to :)

    Bookmark   October 8, 2013 at 8:01PM
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I have the 2-drawer one. The previous owner put them in, and I don't know exactly when it was installed, but I've using both the top and bottom drawers for almost 3 years without any problems. Husband loves the top drawer as it doesn't require any bending to load/unload things.

    Bookmark   October 14, 2013 at 2:24PM
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Lita Jimenez

I have had my DD for 10 years now, its the best dishwasher I have ever had and so convenient and my dishes are clean and sparkly every time, now that being said, its not without its problems. The upper drawer gets stuck and wont open without some serious pulling. I have had repair professionals to the house at least 6 times, each time they are able to fiddle with the drawer and it works for a while and then it happens again after a few months. Each repair person had a different idea. Some say new motherboard, which it has, and another said replace the lifter arms which I did. I finally realized that if I just unplug the dishwasher, it resets itself and simply loosens the drawer and it works again. I don't know why it locks up like that but I have just remedied the problem by unplugging it and I can live with that.

My current problem is that I'm having quite a severe condensation problem after doing a cycle on the upper drawer. There are quite substantial droplets, maybe the size of a penny scattered on the top ridge of the drawer, not on the plastic, but actually on the silver part that is part of the cover and very moist up under my counter. I'm thinking maybe I need the seal replaced. Any suggestions?

    Bookmark   February 28, 2015 at 8:56PM
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Pressing the Power button doesn't unlock the lid (without pulling the plug)?

What specific model DD (603 series?), and is it a prefinished unit (with LCD) or integrated (with control badge on the front panel and no LCD)?
Regards to the moisture issue, you are referring to replacing the drawer lid seal? Water would normally be leaking out during a cycle if the seal was bad, probably leading to an F1 fault (flood sensor), so seems unlikely that's the cause. Some minimal residual moisture remains at end of a cycle when the lid opens and the drying fan shuts off (the fan runs for 30 mins after the lid open or until the drawer is opened, except not on the Fast Cycle). Excess moisture could be caused by the drying fan not working, or if rinse aid is not used or the dispenser is not working. A work-around is to use the manual Key/Lid lock function, which keeps the lid closed (and the drawer locked) until it's manually unlocked when ready to unload.

Manual lock: Press/hold the Lock button until *three* beeps are heard -- initial beep when the button is pressed, a 2nd higher-tone beep a few seconds later, then a 3rd higher-tone beep.
Manual unlock: Press/hold the Lock button for two beeps -- initial button press, and a 2nd lower-tone beep.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2015 at 7:46AM
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Lita Jimenez

Here is an example of whats happening with the water drops, normally there would be a few more drops and its intermittent. I believe this is the 603 model. As far as the other problem, yes I need to actually pull the plug to get the drawer to release and open, this problem only happens every few months or so but at least I don't need to call service people in any more and can remedy it myself. I do normally run my dish cycle on fast because we only have light soil and I do not use the ECO feature.

    Bookmark   March 11, 2015 at 9:24AM
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Use of the Fast cycle is contributing to your moisture issue. The drying phase is only 5 mins on Fast (blower running with the lid closed) which doesn't allow time to exhaust much moisture. (Fast Eco cycle doesn't have a specific drying period at all, the lid opens immediately after the last rinse water drains.)

DishDrawers do not have a drying heater, as you should already be aware. Residual heat from the rinse water helps moisture evaporation, and Fast doesn't heat it very much. Each successively stronger cycle (Delicate Eco, Delicate, Normal Eco, Normal, Heavy Eco, Heavy) heats the final rinse (and main wash) water to higher temps, which in turn gives better drying performance. Rinse aid is also required to promote moisture evaporation ... you are using rinse aid?

    Bookmark   March 11, 2015 at 10:33AM
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Lita Jimenez

Yes I always use rinse aid and my dishes are always sparkly clean with no spots, but I will try using a longer cycle. I have been spoiled to the quick wash but I don't want to keep getting that moisture and risk having any problems under my counter top. Thanks for all your input.

    Bookmark   March 17, 2015 at 10:22PM
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