Miele Optima problems... expensive ones

doroninMarch 13, 2012

I have my Miele Optima G 2430 SCI dishwasher since 2007 (Canada).

Recently it started to leak during normal cycle, somewhere in the middle of the cycle

Called Miele service, the guy came, replaced some plastic part, cost was $300. Since then the DW didn't work even once - it starts, and after about 40 min it stops working, sits quietly for some time, and eventually gives F14 error.

We called, technitian came again, replaced relay - no effect, F14

Called again, they suggested thermopump should be replaced, it'sanother $600.

I noticed though that it stops even on China/Crystal or Quick cycle, where it doesn't heat water, so it should be thermopump problem

Any ideas what could be wrong?

I'm afraid Miele is going to replace all parts one by one, it will quickly top 50% of the brand new DW...

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Hi doronin

The tech should know what causes F14 fault. Here are the possible scenarios:
Pump pressure level switch defective.
Circulation pump inoperative.
Pump pressure too low (no pressure at pump pressure level switch).
Pump may be blocked by foreign bodies.
Foreign body in pump pressure level switch.
Flow meter defective: Incorrect water quantity registered.
Circulation pump defective
Circulation pump winding overheated - Winding protection has cut-out.
After a water intake step, the pump pressure level switch B has not opened switching steps. This causes the anti-stiction routine to be started
Pump pressure level switch evaluation contacts short-circuited.
Due to soiling in the heater minor wiring harness plug, a conductive link exists between the plugs from the main wiring harness resulting in a short circuit of the evaluation contacts.

Hope this helps

    Bookmark   March 14, 2012 at 12:46AM
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If you face a problem with your Miele appliance our First Aid might help you. Otherwise please contact our Customer Care Hotline: (800) 999-1360. I have spoken to the tech who handles dishwashers and he is always up for a good challenge. Iwould give him allthe info on your original problemwith a list of the parts replaced. Next go through the above list of potential causes of an F14 fault with him and work through the easy checks.

    Bookmark   March 14, 2012 at 2:24AM
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Guess what? Miele still doesn't work.

It worked less then 5 years!

My worst surprise was how bad is Miele "professional" service. They bring computers and stuff, but they won't diagnise problems - they start replacing parts until they hit the root cause - on my expense of course.

I don't blaim the manufacturer - things do break. But the fact they can't fix it so I won't have to pay for 5 replaced parts instead of the broken one drives me nuts.

I guess I will have to throw it to the trash - my challenge would be what brand should be the replacement...

    Bookmark   April 2, 2012 at 8:52PM
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Seriously, if this is a Miele authorized dealer I would be having a conversation with their customer service. It's one thing for you to be replacing parts willey-nilley, it's another when you are paying a tech. They are suppose to know what they are doing.

    Bookmark   April 2, 2012 at 9:55PM
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Tell Clarabell and Bozo to take a hike along with whatever dealer you chose. They should not be charging you even
"One thin Dime" unless they fixed it.

I was in Field service for 40 years and never charged a customer for something that was not fixed, course I fixed them, otherwise I just didn't sleep at night and this was very complicated scientific equipment, not just a pump or 2 and a motor!


    Bookmark   April 2, 2012 at 10:21PM
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This is not a dealer, I was dealing directly with Miele customer service.

After second visit ($300+ paid so far) the technician left a record "next time changing heat pump, $600. When I attempted to discuss symptoms (I want to make sure it's not another trial and error attempt), rep told me he has no idea, I need to talk to technician. Which of course isn't available until he comes to us... with heat pump! Amazing

    Bookmark   April 2, 2012 at 11:34PM
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If you paid with a credit card I would call protesting payment to Clarabell and Bozo. They took payment and did not fix the problem. Hopefully you can reach a resolution where you can reduce the charges. Sounds like if you had known that it was going to be over $900, you would just have paid the service call charge and junked the dishwasher.

    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 12:19AM
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My goodness this is ludicrous! What happened to dan1888 who would appear to work for Miele? I don't quite understand the Clarabell and Bozo reference, but this shouldn't be allowed to go on. I'd squawk, a lot, until someone perks up and pays attention and does the right thing. A little diagnosis, a little prognosis, a little honest discussion of costs in conjunction with same .... geeesh. That's just rudimentary!

    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 12:51PM
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There are a lot of f14 codes on the "Fixit" website. One with an f14 was fixed by replacing a thermal fuse. They also tell you how to check the water level there, and many other things, and perhaps one of those "fixes" will fix yours.

Since the OP made no mention of an f14 error , prior to fixing the leak, I suspects Clarabell, has created the f14 problem, perhaps a kinked hose, a defective "plastic part' He put in, or perhaps incorrectly installed.

Clarabell and Bozo are clowns, don't you see the Similarity, alto I will be the first to admit this repair guy and his associate/s are not the least bit funny, but many clown are not either!

Good luck on finding a hasty and cost effective fix.

I also have the same Miele, since about 2005 and it continues to work flawlessly , alto it is only used a couple times per month, based upon your experience, OP, If it ever takes a dump, I'll probably replace it as at least at the moment, I have "Zero" confidence, in Miele service.


    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 1:30PM
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Sorry to hear about your troubles!

But thanks for the info!

I guess I have to think twice before getting Miele appliances for my remodel (and I was going to get two or three of them, including a DW to replace my Bosch).

    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 5:26PM
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Just keep in mind - I'm in Canada (mentioned in the first post), so it's Miele Canada in my case, you don't necessarily should expect same problems in the States.

Yes, originally we had a leak, no error messages. Tech said leak is our fault because we use whole detergent tablet (they don't said anywhere we shouldn't, as far as I remember).
After he replaced something looking like round plastic can with holes for hoses, we started getting F14 *almost* every time on *any* cycle (so just can't be that $600 thermopump - short cycle doesn't use it!).

One time out of 5 the cycle works without error - go figure.

I'd rather have it fixed, but Miele is set to replace $600 part without proper diagnostics, dammit! I guess the next part after the thermopump will be $1000?

    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 6:17PM
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My Miele problems were expensive enough that I pulled the thing out, cut my losses, and replaced it with a dw that I knew I could get serviced locally by someone I knew I could trust.

Good luck. I feel your pain.

    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 7:03PM
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You use a whole Miele dw detergent tablet? Or is it another brand? Just wondering.

    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 7:23PM
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You really need to elevate this problem with Miele.

You had no F14 problems as you just confirmed, until Miele changed the plastic part, it should not take a "Rocket Scientist" to figure out that "Connection"!

Apparently you are not alone, Not that this will make you feel any better, but there are TONS, yes Tons, of f13 & f14 problems on Fixya, and I would bet money, they aren't all
"North of the US Border"!!

Yea, maybe a few are looking for a "Free Fix", but I suspects others have had a similar experience to yours.

Anyway lotta folks seeing this thread & it would be in Miele's best interest, (as well as those that Post about Miele's great service) to address this issue in a timely and "Fair" Manner.


    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 8:19PM
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The problem with Miele customer service is they won't let me talk to the technical person before they come with the uber-expensive part they likely don't need to replace. I remember timing when it stops and start clicking, it might give them a hint on what exactly happens, I know how it behaves on different cycles - they won't talk to me. All I get is: "The technicial will come and do whatever necessary". Right, he already did...

Not sure what to do next... I've seen very similar stories from Bosch owners, on Amazon and here - good machine, but service tech don't have a clue. Paying $2K-3K every 5 years for just a dishwasher seems to me insane. Sigh..

    Bookmark   April 3, 2012 at 8:55PM
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doronin -- what happens when you politely insist on speaking with a supervisor? Explain your catch-22 and wait until they come up with some sensible solution. Because what they're suggesting of you just isn't sensible at all. If the supervisor you pull seems non-sensical as well, insist on speaking with the supervisor's supervisor. They just cannot, Canadian though they may be, expect you to pay to replace a rotation of serially breaking parts in service of some random solution.

good luck! This seems just absurd....

    Bookmark   April 5, 2012 at 3:11AM
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Well all they really need is to sort of guarantee that if next replaced part will not fix the problem it will come out of Miele's expense. That would give enough motivation for the tech to actually check the problem and test the fix before he leaves (he never did)

I lost any confidence in their capabilities now, let's say I dump extra $600 into 5 years old Miele, and what if it breaks again in 3 months, and I'm back to the square one and their fantastic service! All the odds are there. May be I'm better to cut the losses...

What I realized is that I don't want my next dishwasher to be without 5 years extended warranty with option to buy even more at the end. Miele's plan doesn't make any sense - it almost doubles the price. It also means I'm pretty much locked to Sears or Costco as they are the only retailers I know who offers long extended warranty options for sensible money, and tend to keep the promises.
How much I loved Miele, but no more. Perhaps Bosch 800 Plus from Sears will be better experience

    Bookmark   April 10, 2012 at 9:17PM
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That is sad, from most of what we hear, "Most Mieles are great DW's.

Unfortunately, You are at the mercy, of ah, er, I'm not sure what, but they are much more interested in getting the service money, rather than fixing it or preserving Miele's

I do recall, a somewhat similar situation, perhaps with a Miele oven, but could have been a dishwasher, where one poster recommended writing a letter to Miele's headquarters in Germany---sorry I can't recall the results of that letter, but maybe someone else here will recall that post?

It is also sad what they charge for an extended warranty.
A 5 year warranty on my Elux Induction unit was only $75, normally I don't buy extended warranties, but such a deal, I couldn't turn down.

Please do check out who is supplying the extended warranty on the Bosch and try to find reviews,
(Hopefully in your area) as to how "the Appliance Repair" is doing, as far as customer satisfaction.

All the best, in whatever You decide to do!


    Bookmark   April 10, 2012 at 10:22PM
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Soooo....We've had several F11 errors for intake on ours. In the past we've been able to resolve the issue ourselves. Not this time. After a call with the Miele folks it was determined we needed the service person to visit. They just left. It was left than satisfactory. Currently I'm in at $449 and it still isn't working. He replaced the hose and put it all back together. He turned it on and now we are getting an F24 error. He suggested I let it dry and test it again about 8PM tonight. He thinks it will dry and be working. Personally I think it is toast and he didn't want to admit he made the situation worse. I would never have repaired the dishwasher if I'd known there were two costly problems. I could have bought a new dishwasher for what I just paid.

    Bookmark   September 18, 2012 at 1:05PM
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Loved it, but I'm not likely to buy it again - Miele demonstrated clear disrespect to its paying customers, so I'll vote with my wallet.

With lifespan 3-4 years and no real post warranty support, it's more of expensive toy then quality machine

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 11:01PM
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I'd avoid the Optina. I have an Optima that was purchased April 2010. It is 3 years old and has extensive rust on the racks. One of the pegs has already rusted off. The rust is on the bottoms of the racks so it appears to be a defect with the coating. I've called customer service and was told the dishwasher is out of warranty. I've sent pictures to Miele customer service and haven't received a response. I regret this purchase- but on the good side, I'm looking to buy a vacuum cleaner and can write Miele off the list.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2013 at 9:33PM
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Just want to say thanks to those who've shared their consistent problems with Miele. I'm redoing my house and will purchase many appliances. Had been looking at the Miele induction cooktops, 24" and 18" dishwashers, the steam oven, and a fridge. Just crossed them off my list for all but the induction, which they seem to still get right. I could also go with Bosch or Thermador for induction, so I'm going to research the service issues further. Thanks again for the word to avoid Miele dishwashers!

    Bookmark   March 18, 2013 at 11:10PM
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I would do a bit more "sleuthing" here in GW before I settled on a Bosch DW.


You will see "far more" complaints about Bosch DW's that you will about Mieles, and
in fact "threads" similar to this one are pretty rare about Miele DW's.

Quite a number of complaints about DW smells with the Bosches, broken tins or clips for same, poorly gliding out bottom rack---etc etc, but check for yourself!

It is entirely possible that Bosch sells a lot more DW's than does Miele, and hence more "Negative Posts", but I've never seen any posts, here or elsewhere on how Miele and Bosch DW's compare in number of units sold. (Maybe some of our sales people here can "Chime in here")?

Like "Most" here in GW, my Miele DW has been trouble free, (going on 7 years now), and YES, it is an Optima.

Whilst I still detest Miele's "strong arm marketing Strategy",
(and they seem to be cutting back on Dealers now) maybe to gain even more control of retail prices--ya thinks???, It's still hard to beat their DW's.

It does not take a lot of searching to find Miele oven problems, whilst, at least "Off the top of my head", I can't recall any negative posts about Bosch Ovens (it's possible one slipped by me), but "said complaints" are rare"

Anyway in summation, don't base your buying decision on
"One Thread in Garden Web", just about all the posts about the newer model Miele DW's have been positive.

I don't think anybody here will accuse me of being a
"Ra Ra Guy" for Miele, or any overpriced appliance, (High end) if you will, but at least to me, It's hard to beat a Miele DW for quality and reliability.

Good luck on your pending decisions!!


    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 7:01AM
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Gary, that's sober and sage advice, and I will do the further research you wisely advise, thanks again!

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 7:51AM
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smiling - to add to what Gary said - you might as well cancel your renovation and not buy any appliances if you are looking for a brand that has no issues with there products and only has 3 unsatisfied customers for service calls.

They don't exist. Bear in mind that the svc. issues in this post are mostly in Canada, and that is a entirely different company in terms of the service network from the USA. The issues are horrible and Miele CA should be ashamed.

Still, miele and sz/wolf are still at the top of the pile when it comes to really good products and service networks. This doesn't mean YOU WILL like their products, won't get a defective unit or have early failure or will have a problem fixed first time with a warm fuzzy feeling afterward.

What it does mean is YOUR ODDS ARE BETTER than with other co. that you will like the product and it won;t have a problem and if it does, you'll get competent and quality service..............................but it's not 100%.

Note to anyone : If a tech (part swapper) comes to your house and changes out something, insist a cycle is run and the problem is fixed before you pay anything. DO not accept the swapper's testimonial. If there is still a fault or a different problem - DON'T PAY !!! Tell them you'll pay when the problem is solved.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 10:32AM
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scotchwatch- Miele no longer makes the Optima so unless someone is buying a used dishwasher your advice is not terribly helpful. Also, when buying a vaccuum I always look at the dishwashers made by the same company, makes perfect sense!

This post was edited by realism on Tue, Mar 19, 13 at 10:39

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 10:38AM
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If misery loves company, my DD just junked her $1000 KA DW after 1 1/2 years. 4 major repairs, 1 minor and of course the warranty was up. KA flatly refused to replace actually stating it was cheaper for them to just keep replacing the parts. The last replacement of the computer board didn't work right after the repair man left! A call back would be another $100 just to come out and another day of work loss. In addition to paying the parts & labor she was loosing a day of work everytime. So far she is very happy with the Bosch she bought to replace the KA.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 1:51PM
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I know this is an old thread but I couldn't find a better place to post this and I wanted to share some things I learned. I have a four year old Miele G2472 SCVI dishwasher. We run it about once a day and it has run flawlessly for the 4 years we had it until one day my wife hears a funny beeping and after looking around we figure out its the dishwasher and its flashing F14. After researching online we find out this code (heater pressure switch) failure is common on Miele's and is associated with either the pump impeller getting jammed preventing water pressure from building, or from too much soap being used causing the pressure switch to fail. I was pretty sure it wasn't the pump being stuck because I could hear it running and splashing water for the first 30 seconds and then it would stop.

The twist in my story is after resetting and trying a couple more times, I also got an F70 message, which means there is water leaking in the pan of the machine. Took off the front cover and sure enough there's a good amount of water leaking.

I normally try to fix stuff myself but after talking to Miele tech support this was sounding potentially serious so we called one of the two recommended (by Miele) service guys in our area to have a look. This guy showed up, started the machine, peered under the machine with a flashlight for 1 minute and declared that I needed a new water pump and that it was going to cost $1100. (never found out if that was with labor or not). He claimed that too much soap would destroy not just the pressure switch but the pump as well. By the way we usually use Cascade liquid soap and we never measure it - we just fill up the little door, which it turns out, probably IS way too much soap for this machine.

He left while my wife and I discussed whether to just buy a new dishwasher or pony up for the expensive repair. After sleeping on it, I decided I'd like a little more confirmation that the pump was indeed the problem. I bought one of those ryobi fiber scopes and stuck it in to try to see where the water was coming from. After some fiddling, I could clearly see water dripping between the connection between the pump and the pressure switch. This was encouraging as it seemed the pressure switch might be the sole problem. I called Miele again to ask if the pressure switch could cause a leak, and got a very noncommittal - maybe.

By this time, I'd run the machine enough times with the leak that I got a new error F24 - heater relay contact. I suspected that somehow the failed heater pressure switch was causing this error, but didn't want to have to tear machine apart twice, so called miele service and ordered new pressure switch (~$50) and new heater relay (~$80).

pulled machine out of cabinet, rolled onto front, opened up bottom panel and was able to get pressure switch off pump without removing pump (service manual says you need to take off pump first). As I pulled switch off, a little stream of water poured out of the electrical contact side of the switch, providing my first glimpse of success. Also replaced heater relay although that turned out to be fine. contacts were not fused. put it back together- reinstalled and everything is fine.

Summary - heater pressure switches will cause both an F14 code AND significant leaks. Also by the way, a new pump from Miele is $550, not $1100!!

I took the heater pressure switch apart and the rubber diaphragm that separates the water inlet side from the switch / contacts on the other was clearly deteriorating with a weird, textured surface and little granules of rubber falling off. I don't know if this is something in the Cascade soap, the bleach in the soap (don't use soap with bleach) or just a bad design - seems to me this simple rubber part ought to be more robust. anyway, hope this helps someone else avoid an unnecessary $1100+ repair.


    Bookmark   January 28, 2015 at 2:18PM
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Thank you.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2015 at 10:56PM
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Thanks, for the post martinkm!

I have a Miele Optima, circa 2006, and "so far", (knock on wood), it has been trouble free, (although it sees little use).
I am saving your post, so if I do have problems in the future
I can show the repair guy how to fix it.

Unfortunately, you are not alone as far as experiencing poor Miele service.

Take a look at this (see the link below).

Now to be "fair", when I had problems with my JA fridge, I called Jenn-air. They recommended 3 "Factory authorized Service Companies in my area.

I checked them out, 2 of the 3 companies had horrific reviews, (as bad as the Miele SF reviews or even worse)!!
Fortunately # 3 was a winner.

Soooo, message here is, even after calling Miele (or any manufacturer for service), Check them out yourself FIRST, (use Yelp or Yellow Pages) and check the reviews there.


Here is a link that might be useful: SF Miele Service

This post was edited by dodge59 on Thu, Jan 29, 15 at 9:07

    Bookmark   January 29, 2015 at 8:31AM
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martinkm, I'd like to know if the rubber diaphram on heater pressure switch is white rubber,not black. My friends just bought a Miele DW so good to know if happens in future. Some years ago GE switched to white/yellow rubber pump sumps and water feed gaskets along with their white plastic tubs and in my soft water they disintegrated over several years. I replaced sump twice and top wash arm water feed pipe and gasket unit once, luckily I found leak and did repair myself, but still a pain. I also noticed that Whirlpool still used black rubber for these parts-to use Gary's,dodge59,wording,- methinks white rubber can't take the heat, soft water, DW detergent combo for very long-and to blame too much detergent, well reengineer the rubber components to those that worked for the previous 50 years. In my current F&P dishdrawers I think the rubber gaskets within the wash water path are either black rubber or red silicone-ok so far at 10+ years.

    Bookmark   January 30, 2015 at 1:21PM
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whoops, sorry don't know how double post happened

This post was edited by venmarfan on Fri, Jan 30, 15 at 13:42

    Bookmark   January 30, 2015 at 1:26PM
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diaphram in the failed heater pressure switch I fixed was black. Note this is not a user serviceable part - I had to cut the failed heater pressure switch apart to access it.

    Bookmark   February 13, 2015 at 3:06PM
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In the rendition your post of 28 January that I now see, I find the ending to be oddly unsatisfactory. I see ellipses in the middle of a sentence. [As I pulled switch off, a little stream of water...]

I recall a completed message. Is your text being truncated by houzz, perhaps on the grounds that no one could possibly require more than a specific number of characters to impart useful information?


    Bookmark   February 14, 2015 at 10:39AM
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I'm both sorry and glad to read about your problem. So many on this site tout Miele as being bullet proof and worth every penny. I can get miserable service on a much cheaper machine, thanks. My decision to replace our old Maytag with another when it fails is justified, I believe.

    Bookmark   February 14, 2015 at 1:23PM
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Old Maytag dishwashers have just about nothing to do with the ones being sold today.

    Bookmark   February 14, 2015 at 2:51PM
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Kaseki - my post did get truncated it was complete when I submitted it on Gardenweb. To briefly finish the story, the entire problem was the heater pressure switch - it caused the F14 error as well as a significant leak. I also replaced the heater relay (indicated by the F24 code) but I took the 'bad' one apart and it appears fine, so I think the second code was also somehow caused by the wet heater pressure switch. The black diaphragm inside the heater pressure switch was clearly deteriorated with little granules of rubber coming off. Too bad Miele doesn't make just the diaphragm a serviceable part - or better yet use a better elastomer. The other piece of info that got cut off - the service guy who came out and told me I needed a new pump that would cost $1100 - when I checked with Miele their price on the pump was $550! I posted here because i did a lot of searching and never saw anyone documenting significant leaks due to a failed heater pressure switch and the service guy acted like leak == failed pump, so trying to give back to all the helpful stuff I've looked up over the years. Also, for the record, we still like our Miele dishwasher. Its built like a tank and actually quite serviceable. We're building a new house and we will probably buy another Miele dishwasher.

    Bookmark   February 17, 2015 at 10:14AM
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Thanks. I guess I'll need to find out what the brevity algorithm is.


    Bookmark   February 18, 2015 at 8:50PM
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