Oven porcelain lining flaking/chipping...Only with blue?

rhome410March 22, 2009

I've read complaints of the porcelain chipping/flaking/pitting in Electrolux and Wolf ovens, and have had it happen in my Fisher & Paykel. All of them have blue interiors. The repair tech who came to my house said that Bosch was the first to have a blue interior, and they have a patent on their process or 'recipe' that others haven't been able to emulate, and that Bosch are the only blue ovens he hasn't had to replace because of chipping/flaking.

Mine is now being replaced with the new F&P, which has a gray or black interior, so I'm wondering...Has anyone had this problem with anything other than blue? Is it happening with the dark gray or black interiors but no one is noticing because the metal underneath is the same color, so it's more difficult to notice?

F&P and 2 different repair techs assured me it shouldn't hurt the oven or affect the use. However, in a current thread about a Wolf range with this problem, the Wolf owner and an Electrolux owner say they have little shards of the porcelain (actually thin glass) moving around in their ovens when the fans are on, landing on their food or pan lids. Since the Wolf owner got a hand injury from one of these pieces, both owners justifiably fear unexpectedly swallowing them, too.

So...Only blue oven interiors are at risk, or all?

Here is a link that might be useful: Related discussion about Wolf oven problem

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I've got an LG with a blue interior, no problems as of yet (2 yrs). And I am hard on it. I have hit the inside of the door with my cast-iron dutch oven...and I chipped some of the colored part off of the dutch oven. My LG is fine.

    Bookmark   March 22, 2009 at 8:14PM
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You know if the interiors were black or gray you might not even notice as if the enamel were flaking off!

    Bookmark   March 22, 2009 at 10:38PM
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Glad to hear you're having good luck with the LG, Melanie1422. I don't think everyone with blue has a problem, but I was wondering if any other color did the same. It'd be interesting, though, if no LG has the problem. Do you know if LG makes their own ovens?

--And that's what I'm worried about, Wekick! ;-D I will be watching my new oven closely, even though it's not blue...

    Bookmark   March 22, 2009 at 11:57PM
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Gaggenau was the first with blue oven interiors, it is/was their signature. Rhome - your tech ignorant or confused himself by trying to sound knowledgeable. Bosch acquired Gaggenau a few years ago but pretty much stays out of their way. Bosch ovens do not have blue interiors either here or in Europe.

I have seen flaking on light grey interiors before btu this new batch of blues seems to be the most prone. BTW the light grey was in teh late 80's on Thermador which ironically is now owned by Bosch too. No one is immune!

    Bookmark   March 23, 2009 at 9:49AM
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Thanks for the clarification, Antss. I actually questioned him on the issue of Bosches being blue, but it's been a couple of years since I looked, so thought maybe my memory was playing tricks when he insisted.

Of course, like an appliance saleswoman I wrote off once, he also told me 'Induction isn't new (which I knew)...It was tried before and didn't stay on the market because it was too expensive to repair, and it'll happen this time, too.'

But regardless of his accuracy about who has blue and who doesn't, I still wondered if the flaking/chipping issue was indeed color related, since I've only heard of it happening in blue ovens prior to your post. Thanks.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2009 at 11:56AM
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antss (or anyone else who might know):

despite an upbeat annual report at EOY '08, there are persistent rumors (see link below) that F&P is in deep financial trouble, possibly needing the NZ govt to bail them out or face bankruptcy. However these reports are sporadic and I'm not sure of validity. While we were considering F&P washer/dryer, am now pretty gunshy. Does anyone know the real scoop?

Here is a link that might be useful: F&P to seek government bailout to avoid bankruptcy

    Bookmark   March 23, 2009 at 12:56PM
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I'm pretty sure of one thing...If everyone stops buying F&P products based on rumors, they will definitely get into financial trouble...We have a major, locally owned bank in our state that can prove that...Well, we did, but now it's been sold by the FDIC for a fraction of what it was worth. That's the only insight I have into it all...Which probably isn't what you were hoping for.

I do, however, LOVE my F&P laundry equipment.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2009 at 3:47PM
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rhome: it's helpful to hear that you do love the W/D. They were at the top of our list, along with the Maytag Bravos, until these rumors hit, but I agree that there has been much damage sustained from unsubstantiated rumor. Still though, I'm holding off on purchasing until I get what I believe is a definitive opinion.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2009 at 5:17PM
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Public companies ability to do business in times like these can get very tough if the are structured in a way that relies on their stock price to fund their daily operation. I know F&P's DW's sell as does their medical equipment. As for the rest of their operation and it's health , I have no idea. I'd hate to see them exit the U.S. marketplace though.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2009 at 7:33PM
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Is there anything more to this?
I have an Electrolux range with blue interior oven. I have had it about 2 years and used the oven about 5 times since it was new.
I ran the self clean cycle for only the second time yesterday and when I tried to put the luxury glide rack back it, I noticed I couldn't get it back on. When I looked more closely, I saw that the railing had pitting of the enamel in a small spot.
I had to move the rack to a different position that is lower than I want to use it. Now I can no longer put this rack so the items being backed are centered in the oven.
Since the oven is more than 12 months old, I believe the normal warranty is over.

I think it should be easy to patch/repair this small defect and it wouldn't even be noticeable if it didn't match since the rack would be over it.
Now I am concerned that this will get worse and more pitting will develop. It is a concern because the range is still pretty new and the oven used so infrequently since I have a countertop convection oven that is normally used. If I was a heavy user, the issue might have come up much earlier.

Is this a known issue that should have out of warranty coverage?

    Bookmark   November 25, 2012 at 8:19PM
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I think you'd have to check with Electrolux and see if they'll help you out at all.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2012 at 8:31PM
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I called Electrolux and they said they will cover parts for this issue if the liner needs to be replaced, but I will have to pay the cost of labor for repair from an authorized Electrolux repair service.
It will be $65 for the tech to come out and look at the oven and then I assume more charges if they need to order the parts and return to replace the liner another day.
The Electrolux phone agent didn't think it can be patched or fixed in any way other than full replacement of the liner.
The oven is still usable except I don't like not being able to use the middle rack position and I'm concerned that the decaying area will start spreading over time considering it is less than 2 years old and so lightly/rarely used and still shows any signs of decay at all this early on in its life.

    Bookmark   November 26, 2012 at 12:32PM
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I am no expert, but since it means replacing the whole liner, anyway, I'd try sanding the spot and applying porcelain patching stuff. It was quite awhile back that someone said they used something like that for chips in their oven.

Also, if you decide to replace it, I'd consider finding a tech who will come with the liner in hand to avoid that wasted $65 for him to say, "Yep, the porcelain is coming off and I need to order a liner."

Someone else on this forum is ordering their own liner and plans to install in their own Elux oven. You might keep track of what happens for them.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread about replacing the oven liner

    Bookmark   November 26, 2012 at 2:30PM
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Back in the day (a few years ago) when the traffic on this site was much higher, the question of oven paint failures arose. A suggestion was made by someone that a better approach for oven "burn-in" was to heat and cool down the oven using progressively higher temperatures for each cycle, rather than going for a high temp the first time. No real data were available that could support this suggestion; but on the other hand I could see no problem with following it.

Wolf calls for a high heat initial burn in, but I used the staged approach. (I think Wolf's burn-in is intended to burn off oils, and is not related to any paint issue.) I can report that no flaking has occurred in my wall ovens, either from cooking or (a modest number of) self-clean cycles. This is not a statistically significant result, but is consistent with the suggestion.

I am willing to dig deep for the directions, if anyone cares, but my recollection is that the stages were in 50F increments. It takes a while to get through all the cycles due to the cool-down times.


    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 11:10AM
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beachlily z9a

For the last 3 years, I've had a Kenmore induction range made by Electrolux. The interior is gray and it has been replaced once. It should be replaced again, but its out of warranty and the whole unit will be replaced when I finally get around to updating the kitchen.

    Bookmark   November 29, 2012 at 11:23AM
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Was the interior replace under warranty? If not, what did it cost?

    Bookmark   November 29, 2012 at 2:46PM
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Kaseki, I would be interested in those directions. I was thinking it was our once a week pizza baking (at 550 for a few hours) that was stressing the porcelain at the curved inner corners, and hadn't thought about the burn in. However, it's happening on the top oven faster than the bottom, which I assume, is from more use, and they were 'burned in' the same...

    Bookmark   November 29, 2012 at 4:19PM
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"A suggestion was made by someone that a better approach for oven "burn-in" was to heat and cool down the oven using progressively higher temperatures for each cycle, rather than going for a high temp the first time. "

THIS is the type information that would be useful to have in an owners manual. Hubby was the first to test drive turn on our brand new Elux oven and he cranked it up to 500F. I hope this did no damage. eek.

    Bookmark   November 30, 2012 at 8:22AM
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Here is what I have and what I have done. NOTE: WOLF BURN-IN INSTRUCTIONS (for my ovens = DO30F/S) ARE 500F ON CONV. ROAST FOR 1 HR.

Reference, THS msg0409232327865 where these instruction are asserted to be from a service tech.

Burn-in for 30 minutes after reaching 250F, then let the oven cool
then 350F for 30 minutes and cool
then 450F for 30 minutes and cool
Finally, 500F for 60 minutes and cool.

To be effective as a paint de-stressor, or whatever might be happening, if anything, this process has to be done first, not after pizza baking.

Plan on needing good ventilation.


    Bookmark   November 30, 2012 at 11:07AM
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I understood it was to be used as the initial 'burn in' instructions... and not now that I've made pizzas for months. But since I have an email into Wolf showing bare metal in the front corners of my latest oven, I think I might have to deal with another new oven, and will be interested in doing something different if it will save the porcelain.

    Bookmark   November 30, 2012 at 2:56PM
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How many ovens have you had? If I recall, you have had the Monogram, 2 FP ovens and a Wolf. I need to buy a double oven and I am concerned about the ability to buy one that I would non have to service before the first year warranty runs out! Is there a reliable, non flaky, even temp oven out there that doesn't cost as much as a new car? I cannot imagine the frustration you have in dealing with these ovens. I use my current GE profile range oven almost daily and it needs cleaned almost every other month. I guess mine would need replaced twice yearly.

    Bookmark   November 30, 2012 at 3:26PM
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It's getting ridiculous and embarrassing, but I refuse to just ignore something going wrong in an appliance that costs as much as double ovens do.

I have had 2 F&Ps... One had porcelain issues, the 2nd, which one of the 1st of the new models, had bugs with the operating buttons... and they just had trouble finding good service for me. They and the 1 place that would do it had issues with each other, and I was left waiting, so they just bought back the 2nd oven.

That's when I got the Monogram, which just didn't work well at all in reaching and holding accurate temps, and the heat was very uneven.

Enter my first Wolf, which had porcelain issues about 10 months in. They promptly replaced it with oven 2, which developed the same problem. The rep was so nice, apologetic, and aghast that I'd had this happen twice. Again, they sent and arranged the replacement right away and with very little inconvenience or worry for me, so that was good. Well, as I told them now, the 3rd time has not been the charm, because here I am with the porcelain splintering at the front corners (inside, near the door on each side) again...just where it started with the other two. :-( Great performers, and great customer service, but this is a little frustrating... for them, too, I bet.

    Bookmark   November 30, 2012 at 4:00PM
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The appliance techs came out and looked at it they were able to wiggle the rack back into place in the center position by lifting it over the pitted spot.
They also said the liner is not replaceable because of the way it is constructed with heating elements and electronics embedded. Plus, it is welded, not bolted together. The only way to fix it is to replace the entire unit.
They called Electrolux and their technical support said there is nothing they can do since they are not going to replace any entire range over on small pitted area especially since it is also past the warranty expiration.
Since the rack now back in the middle position, the oven is now more usable, but there is no explanation why there is even one small area of damage.
My main concern is that it will expand over time either from heat and cooling temp changes using the oven to bake and roast or from the high temps of the self-cleaning cycle afterwards and I will end up with an oven that ends up lasting only a few more years. Maybe even toxic fumes or other food contamination coming from that pitted spot when at high heat?
The tech said the other blue lined oven he saw where F&P that had issues had widespread enamel pitting or cracking all over, not just one spot like mine.
He thought that maybe it got chipped sliding the rack out of the oven.
Even if that were true, the enamel should not be damaged by just sliding the Luxury-Glide rack out in preparation for self-cleaning once or twice a year. It is not as if it is being jammed into and out of the oven extremely roughly.

    Bookmark   November 30, 2012 at 5:25PM
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I THINK it was problems like that which made F and P put in separate side supports to hold the racks so the sides weren't constantly scraped. My Wolf has those, too, so racks don't contact the porcelain.

Interesting that Electrolux seemed to indicate the liner might be replaced, but the tech says it's impossible...

    Bookmark   December 1, 2012 at 5:32AM
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