please help me pick which Miele dishwasher is right for me?

feisty68March 3, 2014

We have a Miele Novotronic G842SC PLUS that is 8 years old and working well so we are satisfied Miele users. The dishwasher has a black plastic front though, and we want a different look for our new kitchen.

Our needs/wants:
* stainless front
* suitable for installing under granite counters
* hidden controls
* rarely washing precious glassware/china
* regularly washing pots and pans
* want the 3rd tray for cutlery (not sure we need 3D one though)
* very soft city water
* along a run of IKEA cabinets with 4 3/8" toekick/plinth

We were thinking about Crystal G 5285? Good fit for us?

Anything I should know about pricing? (greater vancouver area in canada)

Anything I should know about options?

Last time I paid an insane amount for Miele installation. Can my very handy engineer husband install it instead this time?

Do I need to plan anything for adjacent cabinetry or countertop?

Any point in trying to sell our used Miele dishwasher on Craiglist? If so, asking price?

Any help would be most appreciated :)

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Also, I really hate scented dishwasher detergents - we live in an apartment and I don't want my whole home to smell like a dishwasher. I've only been able to easily find unscented dishwasher detergents in the "green" type tabs - ideally I would continue to use these (like Canadian Superstore "green" ones, or Ecover).

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 12:57PM
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Also, I understand the Dimension has the "auto-open" feature. Is it worth paying more for this?

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 1:09PM
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We have the Dimension Plus and love it. We really like the auto-open feature. I think I heard the Dimension now offers auto-open which was not the case when we purchased ours last year. Highly recommend the auto open feature and Miele overall.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 1:36PM
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So, if you don't have the auto-open feature, you are supposed to open the dishwasher after the drying cycle?

I usually just turn off the dishwasher during the drying cycle, pull out the racks, and let the dishes air-dry - to save energy. But my husband hates the open door being in the way.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 1:41PM
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If your husbands hates the open door, then the auto open door option is worth it as it only opens a couple of inches and is not intrusive.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 5:54PM
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Handy mechanical engineer here who installed his own Miele.

The install charge sounds like a lot of cost until you actually do it yourself, and realize it is a few hour job. Plus, Miele dealer (American Appliance) was upfront and said they would NOT do the electrical outlet required, which would have to be done by a licensed electrician. I did not ask if they charged removal for the old unit, they just said they would take it for a fee, like $25 or so.

Takes 4-7 hrs IMHO including a run to fetch parts from a local Menard's or local home center for someone that does not do these everyday for a living. I could do it in easily half the time doing it again as I have the "experience" factor now and know exactly what tools and sequence I need.

Much of the estimate depends on how compatible new machine is with old machine and how much time you want to spend trimming out the cabinet tight. Since you had a Miele already, it may install much quicker.

My experience, including removal of old GE Profile dishwasher is described below.

Removal of old dishwasher:
-5 minutes shut off water and power in basement and collect tools
-5 minutes cut pipe with copper pipe cutter below floor in basement
-5 minutes disconnect old hard wiring
-5 minutes disconnect clamp at dishwasher siphon break
-5 minutes pull out and hurl old unit into backyard snow bank
-30 minute round trip to landfill to dump dishwasher (no wait!)
-5 minutes to clean up floor under cabinet (dirt/grime removal)
1 hour or so removal/disposal

-60 minutes to drive 20 miles each way, pick up unit at store dock
-15 minutes getting unit out of car and unboxing unit
-45 minutes deciphering icon instructions
-60 minutes to Menards to buy electrical outlet, shielded wiring, handy box for junction in basement, compression fittings, some nail in wire supports
3 hrs or so total prep work

Installation of new unit:
-45 minutes to cut a hole in a cabinet under a sink (5 min with a sawzall)
-30 minutes apprentice electrician installed plug outlet; I gave him $30
-10 minutes drill 1.25 inch hole to pass water line through
-20 minutes to cut half inch copper pipe and install right angle compression fitting, a section of half inch copper pipe, add 1/2 to 3/8 compression fitting
-10 minutes to nail top stainless plate to underside of cabinet
-15 minutes to rough position unit and rough level it front to back
-5 minutes fish inlet hose thru floor and drain and plug thru cabinet wall
-5 minutes swap drain clamps and put in "high loop" drain to disposal
-10 minutes to attach inlet hose to compression fitting
-10 minutes to set depth, screw dishwasher to cabinet and install plugs
-20 minutes to measure and cut kick plate on scroll saw and screw in place
-1 minute to plug it in (easy part, once you have an outlet)
-5 minutes to make sure it starts
Slightly over 3 hrs

Note that I did not install the side jams to narrow up cabinet opening. Add another 20 minutes to cut and install strips as needed.

And of course:
-2.5 hrs to enjoy a few beers while it ran its first "test cycle"

Really, not much cursing on this one as the steps were pretty easy to follow and few surprises other than the forewarned pre-requisite outlet installation. I had the bad luck of having one of the new dishwasher feet end up over the hole where the old dishwasher water line came through the floor. Quick solution was to place a roughly 1 millimeter thick stainless steel plate over the opening and readjust the leveling leg in question. And my old dishwasher was hard-plumbed, so two cuts with the copper pipe cutter, one above the floor, and one below the floor to get it out. Still, very easy.

Hardest part is the required plug outlet is installed. If you old Miele has the plug outlet already in the wall, you are halfway there in my opinion.

Not sure if I missed anything, but overall it went quite well, but be prepared for a solid half to three quarter day job, because that is what it is from start to finish.


    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 7:19PM
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I really recommend the 3d cutlery tray. Pretty sure the Dimension has it. It is great for ladles and other larger utensils. Hubby broke the top spray arm on our old miele when he put a ladle in the cutlery tray, so really like the adjustable tray on the new one.

I have the Diamond. I was a sucker for the soft close door and the LED lights!

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 7:21PM
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Thank you for the advice folks. Laundryvet, the dishwasher will be in the same spot as the old Miele so there's really nothing to do with the electrical. Sounds like my husband can handle it but thanks for running through the steps :)

I would love to hear if anyone has the Crystal or Classic - I think Diamond might be a bit "rich" for us ;)

I'm still not clear if - for models without auto-open like Crystal or Classic - you are supposed to manually open the door at the end of the dry cycle for optimal drying?

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 9:06PM
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I have a Diamante Plus, similar to the Crystal, and it does not have an auto open door. I use Method Smarty tabs and find them best, as they clean well and have no scent. The same thing goes with using the Miele brand Rinse Aid, no smell. I have no drying issues, except with some plastic containers and the curved bottoms of plastic cups. But it's really not a big deal.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 3:54AM
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With Ikea cabinets, and with Ikea plinth, I would not put in a DW that dries by opening the door and emitting hot steam. Short term it's probably fine but long term particle board cabinets will hold up better in a non moist atmosphere.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 8:58AM
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Thanks fauguy - good to know!

Rococogurl - good point. But I'm still not sure how the non-auto-open dishwashers are supposed to dry? Just the drying cycle alone and leave the door closed? That doesn't dry with my current old low-end Miele.

And regarding protecting adjacent particleboard. I think the dishwasher sits on the floor. Perhaps I should do the left hand panel (fridge side) in plywood? And make sure that the cabinet on the right (sink) has sealed edges for the particleboard? I was thinking about doing that anyway. I was thinking of doing custom plinths anyway, so they could be plywood too. I am already planning most fronts and some panels to be custom so additional custom items won't be too much of an issue.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 2:17PM
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And is there Miele price fixing in Canada? In which case I would just order from Miele.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 2:19PM
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This the model we are considering (link below)
CAN $2,149.00 + Save 5% and receive a 5 Year Warranty on all Dishwashers

Here is a link that might be useful: G 5285 SCSF Futura Crystal Series Dishwasher

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 2:23PM
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feisty - I have the Crystal. I love it. I typically get good drying by using Rinse Aid. Also, although I am not sure why this helps, I typically use the Saniwash cycle which seems to get things more dry. (Full disclosure - I never read manuals!) I open the door when I am ready to unload and everything is always dry except some of the curved bottoms of coffee mugs. We are getting a Dimension as part of a kitchen remodel in our second home. For this use the auto door open feature really appeals to me because I like to run the dishwasher as we leave the house and that way it is not sitting shut for as much as a month at a time. Other than that, I wouldn't feel I needed that feature. Hope that helps!

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 4:23PM
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One of the appliance folk can probably say with more certainty than I could but the model you chose looks like the Optima I had in my apartment, which was a great, great dw.

I have a 10 y.o. Incognito though it dries very well. I've never opened the door. Here's what Miele says about how the drying system works -- it is not heated drying and requires no energy usage.

"Most Miele dishwashers employ an advanced drying system that draws room temperature air through a port at the bottom of the appliance. This air is disbursed through special channels around the exterior dishwasher cavity and allows the interior water particles to condense against the walls of the dishwasher.

During this process no external air is ever introduced inside of the dishwasher. This provides the most effective and hygienic drying possible."

The reason the dishes get dryer on Saniwash is because that water is very hot and, provided the dw is fairly full, the condensation is quite complete.

I have Ikea cabinets in the laundry room so I'm aware of precautions with those. Their plinth board in there is starting to peel though the cabinets are doing fine. I would just be aware and make adjustments needed. The DW does come with a front piece that is contiguous with the toe kick in my kitchen but that would depend on which Ikea cabinets are being used and how they are being installed.

Crystal looks like a good choice to me.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 4:52PM
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Thank you Marinagal and rococogurl! Seems like that model will work for us :)

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 9:56PM
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