Why can the Culinarian have six 23K burners while Bluestar cannot

gtadross_gwMarch 18, 2013

I have the RNB Bluestar, six burner config, with 2 22K burners, 3 of the 15K, and one simmer burner. Believe me, i LOVE it, and i wouldn't trade it for anything.

My question, however, is why is the Capital Culinarian allowed to have all six of its burners go up to the 23K. When I tried to get a third 22K burner for my Bluestar, the salesman and the Bluestar rep said that such a configuration would not be allowed in any residential home.

Can anyone explain how the Culinairan got the clearance for that much BTU's?

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"the salesman and the Bluestar rep said that such a configuration would not be allowed in any residential home. "

Cause the salesman is full of Bovine Scatology.

That is why he is a salesman (who likely does not sell CC).

    Bookmark   March 18, 2013 at 12:52PM
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i didn't just rely on the salesman either. i called Bluestar directly, and they said adding a third 22K burner would not be allowed.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2013 at 1:04PM
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You will need A LOT of gas supply and large diameter pipe to feed a range with 6 - 23k btu burners.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2013 at 4:49PM
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When Capital put the range in for UL Approvals they put all 23k burners on the test range and it passed, I would imagine Bluestar did not do that, hence the reason you can not have all 22k burners.

The Culinarian requires the same diameter gas pipe as all other ranges.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2013 at 6:33PM
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trevor - with respect, the short (18"-24") flex line from the wall or floor shutoff to the range may be the same -

but an appliance requiring 138,000 BTU will need a larger branch line from the manifold or main trunk than a range like that RNB pulling approx 100,000 BTU.

The capital needs approx 25% more flow. A properly sized distribution system needs to be accounted for when using one of these "pro" style ranges - especially if remodeling an existing home that may not have adequate size branches.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2013 at 6:55PM
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But the odd thing is here is that it says on bs's website that you can add 22k burners plus there have been people here that have posted that they hade all 22k burners, however I don't know if it was a 4 burner range or a 6 burner. Did you ask them why it says on their website that you can add 22k burners?

    Bookmark   March 18, 2013 at 6:56PM
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xedos.... I am no builder / plumber but my understanding (which could be wrong) is that it is normal to run a feed of 3/4" to the back of all ranges which are then reduced to 1/2".

As I state that I could be wrong.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2013 at 7:02PM
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What size gas piping you need for the CC or similar configured range depends on the total natural gas load for the house and current size of gas connector. You may be at the limit and require a bigger pipe to run gas heater, gas boiler, and gas dryer and CC with all six burners and oven at full blast all at the same time . Maybe you heat your pool or have built-in outdoor grill running on natural gas?

Then again you may not be at the limit and simply a bigger connection is all you need.

Same consideration for total electricity load if going from electric coil cooktop to Thermador Induction with a 4.6 kw power hob.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2013 at 8:03PM
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BTW There are other factors like natural gas pressure you get form city/natural gas company and total feet of pipe after the connection form the city. More footage dilutes pressure.

My home was built in 1957. I have a built-in gas wall heater , gas boiler ,and gas dryer. I put in a bigger connector and my 36" CC runs fine. It is not starved for gas.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2013 at 8:13PM
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Trevor - if you're selling these ranges, you might want to read up on the gas systems a house needs to supply these things adequate amounts of gas to utilize the full capability of of those high output burners..

Sure they will run with just about any amount of gas, but why buy , or sell for that matter, multiple high output burners if you can't feed them properly ? 1/2" -3/4" might be fine if you kitchen is near the gas meter or manifold in a home run system, or is a short branch off of a 1- 1 1/2" trunk, but it will starve multiple 20k burners if it's the at the other end of a 75' long house from the meter or as deeageaux mentions you have a furnace, water heater , BBQ, or dryer upstream from the range. Got an on demand water heater for a whole house ? Gonna add more trouble. Municipal nat. gas pressures don't vary much across the country and within the ranges don't supply a lot more volume. Propane on the other hand is at much higher pressure and it's volume increases a lot for a 1 PSI pressure increase.

Dee - curious what size pipe feed your range's shutoff and where it is in relation to the other gas loads.

Look, I'm not trying to scare anyone, or cry the sky is falling. I just want people to be aware of the hidden story and infrastructure needs these big ranges with multiple high output burners require to operate to their full potential. You cannot just swap out your old kenmore gas range and hook up the new "pro" to the wall outlet and expect the full performance.

Good news is that these loads / demands and the system sizes are easy to calculate. Any Journeyman plumber can do it, question is are they asked to, and does the work get done ? You can even do it yourself with a notepad, calculator, specs on your appliances, and an internet search.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 10:54AM
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Out of the thousands of Bluestar's and Culinarians that we have sold over the last 10 years, I have never (repeat never) had one single customer come back to me with gas flow issues.

IMO this thread is becoming more like the MUA threads, worrying and overly complicated for potential customers, with no history of one single BS or CC owner ever coming on this website and saying.

"My BS or CC wont run as designed due to lack of gas".

IMO again ....this thread has been hijacked by a mute point.. sorry not normally so blunt in print ...lol

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 12:31PM
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In the places I have lived with NG available, no one hasever run branched gas lines.

Each major gas appliance has had a home run to the meter (and the pressure regulator is right in front of the meter in many places).

The distribution lines are MUCH higher pressure (30 PSI, 60 PSI) are not uncommon)than your house lines (2 to 4 PSI are common).

We did have a house blown up a few years ago when the contractor upgrading the distribution pressure missed one houses regulator.

That house filled with gas when the higher pressure was used in the mains.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 3:27PM
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It just seems to me that this whole "Bluestar v. Culinarian" debate isn't fair b/c Bluestar (for whatever reason) doesn't have the same overall firepower as the Culinarian. If Bluestar had six (or at least 5 plus one simmer burner) 22K burners, then fair comparisons can be made. Or at the very least, compare the 22K bluestar burner to the 23K burner of the Culinarian.

If i was with Bluestar, I would follow Culinanarian's lead and start putting all 22K burners on every burner. To those who say you can't simmer on the 22K bluestar, that is flat out wrong. I simmer on the 22 all the time, everything from rice for 1 person (i.e, 1/2 cup) to risotto, to soups, sauces, poaching, etc. just turn down the knob people. (note: i did do that screwdriver adjusting trick to make the simmer go even lower, which took all of 10 seconds per burner, but even before I did that, the 22K burner simmered just fine).

    Bookmark   March 20, 2013 at 2:13PM
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Our gas line is branched to cooktop, furnace, water heater, and gas dryer. Hasn't been an issue, but I haven't observed it closely to see if there is any noticeable effect.

xedos ignores a really important point - the majority of people will never run all 6 burners on full. The reason for having six 23k burners is so that you can use any of the burners for high-heat cooking, not so that you can use all of them at once. So, if the output droops a bit when all six burners are on full, it really doesn't matter.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2013 at 6:39PM
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I'm with gtadross. I "simmer" on my 22k burners all the time, just not for long periods. When I make my oatmeal for one, for example, I boil the water in about a minute or less then cook the oatmeal by turning down the heat. It never burns the bottom of the pan. Same thing when we make rice or other grains. I really only use the dedicated simmer burner when doing a slow cook.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2013 at 9:21PM
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Funny how threads take turns and curves...but since we are on the topic I agree, a 22k bs burner can be adjusted to give a simmer. Not one I would leave simmering unattended for any length of time but probably on par with competitors similar offerings.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 1:01AM
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well, i'm going to start converting my 6 burner RNB into a SUPER-RNB. I'm going to convert every burner, except the simmer burner, into the 22K burner. then, and only then, will it be fair to compare it to the Culinarian.

right now, i'm just waiting on the new parts to arrive so i can switch the middle burner and have all 3 front burners be the 22K. after that, i'll start switching out the last 2 15K burners in the back. i just wanna see how easy/difficult it is switching out the front 15K burner before ordering all the new 22K burners/orficies for the back burners.

i'll keep y'all posted.

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 10:13AM
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gtadross, please do keep us posted.
I'm thinking of doing the same thing.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2013 at 10:04AM
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Good idea to keep us posted. Have you thought about going one step further and trying to create a 30k+ burner? I am sure a few more holes may have to be bored in the burner (lots of room on a 22k) and of course a new orifice. Possibly a bit of guidance from a competant gas tech, or even better but harder to find an engineer would be useful.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2013 at 4:58PM
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ugg. I do believe that Bluestar has allowed more 22K burners in the past, so maybe this is a more recent policy change.

In any case, I love the 15 K burner and think it would be a mistake to remove them,- it's a good compromise of heat distribution,. power, and a very low simmer. For the majority of cooking it's ideal.

I would not want to own a range that did not have one or two 15K burners, one or two small simmer burners, and one or two 22 K burners. Whatever configuration, having at least one of each is ideal to my way of thinking.

But live and learn, I guess, but how can you learn if you don't experience the wonder of actually using a 15K burner ?

    Bookmark   March 24, 2013 at 3:20PM
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Here's the scoop from Bluestar's website:
"Can I add another simmer or 22K burner?

Yes. Additional 22,000 BTU burners may be added to any range in our RNB model at an additional cost. Our RCS and RPB models cannot have additional 22,000 BTU burners added. Additional simmer burners may be added to any BlueStar model. Please contact your dealer for more information, including the cost."

So yes you can add more 22 K burners. The lower priced version doesn't allow it because it is a custom option.

Here is a link that might be useful: Blues Star FAQ page- scroll down

    Bookmark   March 24, 2013 at 3:30PM
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I should be getting that new 22k burner today to switch out my middle 15k burner.

I wanted to take that middle 15k replaced burner and use it (and its orifice) to switch out the back simmer burner. Then all my back burners would be 15k's and my front row would all be 22k.

However, a blustar rep just informed me that I can't (or shouldn't anyway) switch out the simmer burner as the range would then be beyond its maximum capacity, potentially leading to a reduction of power of all burners and/or the blowout of the regulator (whatever that is?). Gotta say, I'm kinda bummed about hearing that. I know many of you love the simmer burner, but in all the years I've had and used my range, I've never once used it. I simmer just fine on the 22k, and if I need to do a really long/nearly unattended simmer, the 15k works beautifully.

I'm wondering if anyone else has switched out their simmer burner to get a bigger one in there. If so, have you had any loss of power, regulator blowout, or any other issues?

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 12:17PM
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