Dual Flush toilet

olivertwistkitchenMarch 10, 2013

Thinking about a dual flush toilet for our powder room.
I haven't seen any posts on them here in a while and wondering people's thoughts.

Considering Kohler Saile or Toto Aquia or Toto Aquia II, but open to suggestions, including being talked out of it.

Additional Q's:

-How do you know which 1/2 of the button is which? Are they labeled? (They should be labeled #1 and #2).

-How will my GUESTS know? Will I need to hang up a sign with instructions in there?

-If the flush button is on top of the toilet, where do I put the box of tissues? There isn't room on the bathroom vanity.

-Does "stuff" go down in this toilet or get stuck?

-I read that it's easier to get streak marks. True?

-Are you happy with this toilet???

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I have 2 dual flush toilets, both Toto. One is a wall mount. The buttons are different sizes on both - it's pretty obvious. The wall mount has had intermittent leaking problems (water leaking into the bowl) that my plumber has struggled to fix.

Other than the drip problem, the toilets are working just fine - no issues with stuff being flushed well. There have been other threads on Totos, see if you can do a search to find them.

Maybe a small shelf for tissues?

    Bookmark   March 10, 2013 at 3:34PM
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I'm picking our toilet now too. I have been reading a lot, especially at the Terry Love forum that is mentioned here from time to time.

Basically that forum of toilet professionals love the Aquia and Aquia II, they function great, are very popular, and have an insanely low dissatisfaction rate among their customers (less than 1%).

What in finding in multiple places is scattered reports of more frequent cleaning needed. That is accross almost all the new models, no matter how good the rating. The low flow and dual flush of today are much better than when they came out years ago, they shouldn't clog like older models. But some streaking and a little more frequent cleaning are normal.

I also wanted a skirted toilet, as part of my easy clean remodeling. I'm trying to make things easy to maintain/clean, mostly because I hate cleaning. I also was hoping to spend around $300-350.

I am almost set on the Aquia II. It meets all my criteria. I only hesitate due to the small water spot, though given how popular it is and how few complaints there are I doubt that's much of an issue.

I did learn that Kohler parts can be tricky to get, in part because they keep changing part numbers. Any dual flush has a somewhat more complicated set of innards, but a post in the TL forum said one part is commonly available, and the ring you might need to replace s harder to find, but easy enough to stash an extra one. As much as I have no issue with the Kohler I had installed upstairs in tha main bath, now that I am actually shopping for one I just pray it doesn't fail. I don't want to end up in parts hell. Ain't nobody got time fo' dat, as the video goes!

If you find anything helpful, please share! I'd love a fresh perspective.

    Bookmark   March 10, 2013 at 9:02PM
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I have a Toto Aqia and an Aquia II. There is no noticeable difference other than installation.

The buttons are not labelled but one is larger than the other and if guests don't understand which button to push it really makes no difference. I have never had anyone tell me they were confused, and most of my guests are family - they would definitely say something.

Tissues: Install a small shelf above the toilet, use toilet tissue while in the bathroom, or buy the square tissue boxes and they fit nicely on top of the tank without concealing the flush buttons.

I have never had a clogged toilet. My son did manage to flush a large enough wad of toilet paper to clog the sewer line, but the toilet itself had no problem with the giant ball of paper.

Streaks: Yes, there is a little higher probability of streaks. However, at the risk of being indelicate, the Toto seat is designed to aim you in the correct direction to allow solid waste to fall into the water if you sit on it completely, not perching on the front end.

I am very happy with this toilet. I have one bathroom left to remodel and will get another one, for a grand total of three.

    Bookmark   March 10, 2013 at 9:40PM
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Williamsem: One day you and I are going to discover that our kitchens and bathrooms are nearly identical to each other! (BTW, we settled on icork for the kitchen). I'm surprised you read that Kohler parts are hard to come by. I would think that would be so much more common than Toto. I had only ever heard of Toto last weekend in a showroom.

Curious: why choose the Aquia II over the I? The I is a one-piece, so I thought fewer nooks and crannies for my son to "miss" and pee all over.

Re: the tissue box, how about a toilet paper holder that has a shelf like in the picture?

    Bookmark   March 10, 2013 at 9:47PM
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Most of these I've used don't flush well enough using the small button, even for its intended use. (Exception: a Geberit with in-wall tank, which is spectacular). Most also have a very small area that's normally covered with water, generally not a good thing. At least one I've seen actually was labelled "1" and "2".

The confusing-guests thing is part of what's kept me from getting one in my own home. I'm fine with a high-quality 1.28gpf single-flush commode like the Toto Drake II, which is still water-efficient and everyone can figure out how to use.

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 1:29AM
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Honestly, both Aquia models are highly recommended. Pay careful attention to bowl/seat height. My Kohler is too tall, i thought everything was either "standard" or "comfort" height. Well, different companies define that differently. i whipped out the tape measure an i think id be ok with either Aquia, but you should check. All else being equal, I picked the less expensive one. Like most everything else, it's such a big improvement over what I have it doesn't have to be the absolute best to make me happy. Being skirted is a big win, I'll take that and keep the extra $ the one piece costs!

(Btw, read on another thread about assigning your sons to clean the bathroom as part of their chores from early on, even if it's just a damp paper towel when young and you really clean after. Apparently they learn quick how to aim better!)

This was posted last month, and while it sounds a bit rant-ish (in response to a contested post), I've read similar before and at this point it's enough to sway me. Plus EngineerChic and I had significant issues trying to install Kohler Bancroft suites in our bathrooms in terms of identifying/obtaining parts and confusing diagrams, which we discussed on here if you are interested.

Quote from TL forum: "my issue with kohler is parts availability...and, while some people never have problems with their toilets, if you simply look at the trapway design, you'll see that on many of them, the outlet makes a sharp 90-degree turn at the flange and the toto designs make a much more gradual turning there. Depending on the size, shape, and hardness of the waste, things just go down the toto toilet's trapway faster and with fewer problems. Some never have a problem, others have problems on a regular basis with the kohler design. Things do not make 90-degree turns and maintain decent velocity unless done properly.

I do not ever remember terry saying kohler had anywhere near that level of defects. I do remember him saying that toto has the lowest of the many brands he sells. The 20% figure i remember was about his breakage factor and the reason why he no longer ships toilets, and limits his delivery area.

My last experience with kohler was on a special order. Each time the supplier called kohler, they said it would be shipped tomorrow. This went on for months. In a week or so when it didn't show up, they called again, and got the same story...it will be shipped tomorrow. Then, they sent the wrong thing. Then, once i got it, i was not particularly impressed...parts fit, paint, fit and finish. At that point, i didn't want to send it back and suffer the same, horrible customer service i got again. Since then (this is a shower door), the paint chips, the bearings are crappy and make noises, and even with the several holes, the system did not have a proper position to adjust the height in the track well. The holes in the glass were all rough. If you know anything about glass, you want a nice clean hole. It hasn't spontaneously shattered, but it should never have made it out of the factory, in my view. So much for quality control.

I do like some of the designs, but from an installer's viewpoint, some of their stuff is horrible, and almost unreasonable. For example, they have some shower body sprays whose rough-in must be less than 1/16" accuracy to fit properly in the tile. Do you know how hard that is to do when trying to get multiple trades to communicate? This is the only company i know of that deems it reasonable to set such strict requirements. They design in a vacuum, and not for practical use. Then, if you search this forum, you'll find stories of kohler bending over backward to help people, then you'll find others where they say, sorry, you'll just have to replace the thing...we won't help you. So much for a decent, stable design and continued availability of replacement parts. Few places carry kohler replacement parts since their design changes so often, the inventory would be huge, with no expectation of ever recovering the investment. So, do you want to wait a week or more when you need a part? If you do, buy kohler. My personal opinion and experience."

When is your project scheduled? Looking forward to seeing your progress! When I started posting here I swear A2gemini and I were going to have identical kitchens. But Cambria here is crazy expensive and many colors on backorder, so granite it is!

What color icork? I'm still debating, I've over-analyzed to the point where I need to revisit some choices before I decide for sure. I'm tracking down a US Floors sample Tuesday, ironically the one I loved back at the start and decided was too dark so never pursued. Still love the Globus, but not sure now about the opacity of their stains since I am loving varied options now. Almost time to order!

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 2:07AM
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I have two dual flush toilets, and for my Master bath reno, am going back to a single flush. I definitely find there is more streaking than my 40 year old Crane (which has never streaked that I recall). Think I will be getting the Toto Vespin II, sales clerk explained that it has a different flushing system that helps eliminate streaking, something about position and size of hole and where and how the water comes in? Can't remember exactly, but it made sense at the time, and I like the looks of the skirted Vespin.

Also, be sure to sit on whatever you choose. In our Main Bath, comfort toilet is definitely too high to be comfortable for me. (I'm 5'5", but maybe I have short legs?)

Another also, have had family tell me that the dual controls do confuse them, so though it seems obvious to me...guess it's not for everybody. Also have tissue box issue...LOL

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 7:29PM
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So you all had me convinced to get the Toto. Until I looked at the specs for the Toto Aquia and the Kohler Saile.

The Toto sits 16 1/8" off the floor. And then I guess the seat is ON TOP of that.

The Kohler Saile sits 15" off the floor.

My current toilet (with which I am quite happy with the height) sits 14.5 " off the floor (with seat on top).

I'm short. I don't think I'd be happy with the Toto if it's that tall!

Given all that, do you think it's reasonable to get the Kohler then?

Williamsem: icork in Leather pattern

    Bookmark   March 12, 2013 at 12:07AM
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The Aquia II is 15 3/8. The seat adds roughly 1 inch. I found my Kohler "comfort height" is 17(!) inches and my heels are a bit off the ground. I'm 5'4". I did try mocking up both Aquia heights and I believe I'd be ok with either. They are both higher than my current old toilet, but that feels a little low at times.

I'd suggest getting some magazines to stack on the lid of your current toilet and try each heigh. You might easily decide on one over the others. Or find they'd all be fine and you can pick by other features.

    Bookmark   March 12, 2013 at 10:20AM
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We own a comfort height Kohler. It's great! You never have to squat like a Neaderthal again!

    Bookmark   March 12, 2013 at 11:49AM
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