took off front wheel on 03 honda odyssey. i have nice floor jack. i could not see any frame rail due to smooth underbody. and the front area under motor has a belly pan that hides any view of subframe. i usually use subframe as jacking point on my other cars. one person said use factory mentioned jack point behind front wheel to lift car and than support car with jack stand. ok. but where do i put jack stand? manual only says where jack point is. than one guy said, why do you think your van has a subframe? is he being a jerk or what?