2002 Ford E250 Cargo Van

Tryin2GrowJune 16, 2005

I have this van for my business, bought it new.

Not an earth shattering question here.

Just curious if anyone knows...

WHAT'S the deal with the bumpers?

Finish started coming off right off the bat, and every other Ford I see is doing the same.

It's almost comical.

Is this REALLY something they couldn't figure out how to do right?

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earthworm

They do, of course, know how to do it right.
And they know how to take shortcuts and "get away" with it..

At the morning meetings, this topic is automatic : How to cut quality without losing customers.. One man states - use cheap harness insulation in the engine compartment, who will ever know ? The second man rebuts with this - Volkswagen tried this trick back in the 90s - it backfired and badly !

The third man offers this - cut the quality of finish on the bumpers; most of our commercial customers could care less about this, those who complain - the dealers can "fix" for $3.00.
Good, this will be accepted and passed..

    Bookmark   June 17, 2005 at 9:25AM
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brianl703

The difference between the cheap harness insulation and the correct harness insulation is 3/10ths of a cent per foot. At least that's the difference for me buying it one roll at a time on 1000' rolls.

    Bookmark   June 17, 2005 at 11:01AM
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bob411

I don't own Fords anymore. My 93 E250 supervan, and my wife's 91 taurus station wagon both had oil pans that rusted through. I am stupid enough to spend $20,000 to $25,000 on something that I know has fenders and doors made out of garbage, but come on the oil pan is important. For a full size van there are not alot of choices. I bought a 2002 GMC so far so good. Bought my wife a Huyndi. It may not last either, but atleast it didn't cost half as much.

Bob

    Bookmark   June 17, 2005 at 7:08PM
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earthworm

Agree, Brian, yet I have seen this.
The Honda uses quality insulation in the engine bay, as did the Chevrolet, Saab, Volvo, Mercedes, others,,the '93 Passat did not.

Accountants are know for being penny pinchers, and they do or did have too much power in running a car company..

Oil pans rusting through - unbelievable !! Never on a Saab - but then , after ten years in the rust belt, the whole car would be rusty, very rusty..

    Bookmark   June 18, 2005 at 10:47AM
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brianl703

Your '93 Passat would not be the first European car to show up on US shores with substandard wiring insulation.

Volvo, Jaguar, possibly BMW (I only ran across one reference), and Ford (with their European cars like the Contour, and possibly the Merkur too) have all had this problem.

In the case of the Ford Contour, they offered a 10 year, 100K mile warranty on the wiring harnesses. I had them replace mine last year. The new wiring harnesses have the correct insulation.

I don't know what it is about European cars and substandard wiring insulation, but there is a connection. The Contour was built here, but it's a European design. The wiring harnesses on it use a lot of European-style wiring connectors.

I was told by someone who was an engineer for Ford that the harnesses were made by Yazaki. So, one of the following spec'd the wrong insulation: Yazaki, Ford USA, or Ford Europe.

    Bookmark   June 18, 2005 at 3:10PM
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earthworm

These bean counters will do anything to even save a 1/10th of a penny per foot or a penny per liter of protective paint...
Yazaki has little to lose, I think, in this situation, they can "up" the spec a notch or two; but, have the Euros acted in a positive manner ??
A far as the Ford oil pans go, I'd guess the clean/phoscoat/ primer step was poorly done or omitted..
Maybe the same was true for the bumpers..

    Bookmark   June 19, 2005 at 1:24PM
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brianl703

My Contour has an aluminum oil pan...

I don't think I need to worry about the oil pan rusting through on the 1988 Mustang. Every time I change the oil it gets a nice rustproofing coating..

    Bookmark   June 19, 2005 at 11:15PM
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Tryin2Grow

Ok, let me see if I'm following this.
The suits at the Monday meeting decided bumper finish not important to me.
Score one for the suits.
I was plenty PO at first, but they were right, I got a business to run, & kept putting off taking it back to the dealer.

This is our first Ford.
Do I still have the excitement of looking forward to the rusted oil pan, or did Bob get all the fun in '93?

Anything else you guys want to give me a heads up about?

    Bookmark   June 20, 2005 at 1:28AM
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brianl703

I think that the engine in your 2002 Ford E250 has a 1/4" thick aluminum oil pan. If so, it will not rust.

By the way, the engine in your 2002 Ford E250 is NOT the same as what's in a 1993 E250.

If the engine in your 2002 Ford E250 is anything like the engine in my Contour, the oil pan actually is a structural part of the engine and thin steel oil pans won't work for that.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2005 at 1:45AM
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earthworm

It is good to know these things, maybe the manufacturers finally realize that people want reliability and durability and are willing to pay for it...
I believe that a vehicle should last nigh 20 years with minimal upkeep..But the initial cost will NOT be low !
And that the owner must be willing to properly maintain his vehicle on a regular basis.
Change the oil every 3 to 4 months, apply anti-rust once a year, renew the timing chain at 150K miles, etc,etc.
This, I think is reasonable..

    Bookmark   June 20, 2005 at 11:56AM
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brianl703

Timing chain? Well my 1988 Mustang has 166K on it with the original timing chain. Recently, I had my mechanic change the harmonic balancer due to the rubber deteriorating (left unchecked this can cause damage to the timing cover) and he said when he reset the timing the marks were rock-steady so that means the timing chain is still OK. The timing was off before so the old harmonic balancer had slipped (timing marks are on the outer ring of the balancer, which is attached to the inner ring by a piece of rubber which can deteriorate over time, allowing the outer ring to move).

    Bookmark   June 20, 2005 at 7:34PM
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bob411

The engine in my 93 was the 300 c.i. straight six, it's been around since WW II. Of course it had fuel injection, but same basic engine, but I never heard of anyone's oil pan rusting, even in the "rust belt". Wife's car was 300 bucks, not a big deal. The van had suspension tacken off, to remove oil pan, 1,000 bucks. I contacted Ford just asked them to take a thousand off a new van, and give me some assurance they had removed their heads out of their a$$es, and the next one wouldn't rust. They didn't respond.

Bob

    Bookmark   June 20, 2005 at 8:07PM
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brianl703

If the pan is made of steel it must be primed and painted to keep it from rusting.

Any scratch that goes all the way through to bare metal is a place for rust to begin.

I wouldn't think an oil pan would normally rust simply because oil changes (as well as seepage from gaskets as the vehicle ages) usually result in oil getting all over the pan.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2005 at 12:00AM
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earthworm

I don't think the residual oil on the pan prevents rust- it may actually feed it.

The Mustang is probably a V8 with a short timing chain and they DO last a long,long time..

    Bookmark   June 21, 2005 at 1:52PM
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pickupmanpete_yahoo_com

We have three ford pickups in our household- a 92 f-150 2wd, 1994 F-150 2wd and a 97 F-250 heavy duty 4 wheel drive. all three trucks had rusted oil pans. I think that Ford is going bankrupt if they don't get a handle on this.

Get this!!! Just last week, the spring shackles and spring mounting brackets on the 94 truck were rusted through. Not only does ford use bad metal in the oil pan, there is bad metal in the spring mounting bracktets too!!!!!

    Bookmark   March 9, 2008 at 7:59PM
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jemdandy

It's tough to keep plated parts shiny when exposed to road salt. But, one cause of failing plating is shoddy plating. Chrome plating requires a multi-step plating procees to make it durable, that is, last at least 3 years. Chrome plate, although can be polished to a high shine, is porous and chemicals can penetrate it to the layer below. This is its achillies heel. One plating formula calls for plating with copper, nickel, and finally chrome. Nickel has good corrosion resistance, but requires a base of copper to stay on steel. If either the copper or nickel plate is missing, chrome plating will fail within a couple of years. It fails from underneath itself. The first notice is blistering. Once this is visable, the plating has already failed. Its just a matter of time before the remainder peels off.

As you can see, there are places to cut cost in the formulation for chrome plating, and it will be at the cost of durability. And yes, thickness of each layer counts too. A scratch through the top two layers of plating will open the plate to faster deterioration; cut a scratch all the way to the base metal and add moisture, corrosion is assured in a short time.

At one time, it was rumored that Ford designed their coatings to last 5 years for the climate of Cincinnatti, OH. For the rest of us living in a climate zone north of Cincinnatti, we're out of luck. However, my information is very much dated and the present day situation may be different.

    Bookmark   March 10, 2008 at 7:07PM
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