The water4gas thing

iggieJune 20, 2008

I visited this site and the deal makes a bit of sense, although I am not knowledgable enough in physics or chemistry to propery evaluate this setup, First it does not use hydrogen in it,s pure state, does not use the heavy power requiring conventional electrolysis system. This system uses baking soda, hydrogen peroxide and distilled water to generate HHO, Brown,s gas, the rest of the system consists of an aquarium pump and a cell phone charger. The site is water4gas, I hope someone with enough physics and chemistry knowledge will visit this site and give us a true evaluation.

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john_g

It's a scam, and has no real use for today's cars. Back in the day's of weak ignition systems it could be used to help ensure combustion, so there is historical significance to the practice. I helped one of our local news paper writers do a story on it last month.

BTW, the EPA tests these devices all of the time, they have a web page devoted to the results. I'll even mention wikipedia right now because even with the occasional questionable presentation of the facts in many items there, even they get it right!

It's "Snake Oil", it's a "Scam", add your title for it here as you please, it simply doesn't work.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2008 at 8:16AM
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iggie

Thanks John G, I thought it might be snake oil, however, it does have a ring of good scientific reasoning. But I respect your opinion. Marcel, said he hoped you would read my blog,and post a reply, thanks for doing so.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2008 at 12:22PM
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gary__

Oh, I don't know. Scab that fruit jar water4gas gizmo on in conjunction with some magnets taped to the fuel line, install the tornado in the intake and a toilet paper oil filter and who knows, you may have to stop at gas stations every few hundred miles to drain off the gas rather than put some more in :)

    Bookmark   June 21, 2008 at 11:28PM
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john_g

I wrote this in response to a technician/shop owner that was also misled and started to believe one of these scams. In the one he read they claimed with their device, you could produce up to 3 liters of "browns gas" in a minute, at ten amps of current flow. For the sake of argument, lets "assume" that is in fact correct.

Have you ever been to a science center, or some other museum display where they have a bicycle set up as a generator and you tried to see how much electricity you can generate? If your "average" you can momentarily light up the 100W light bulb. Now, attempt to do that for a minute, and then you will get a real idea just how much power it actually takes.

Now realize that at 10 amps, and at 14v you have 140 watts, thats close to 50% more than what you would have expended attempting to light that stupid bulb for a few seconds with a bicycle. Your talking world class athletics at this point to do it continuosly for an hour, just to make a very small amount of browns gas.

So how much gas is 3 liters? One cycle (2 crank rotations)of my 1994 Rangers engine. How much would one hours worth of browns gas made by a (world class) bicyclist be?

That's easy. 3 liters in one minute, times 60 minutes is 180 liters. My engine would use that in 60 cycles (120 crank rotations) which in direct drive with a 3.73 axle ratio mean 32 wheel rotations, at approximately 63 inches per revolution so that would effectively move my truck about 168 feet in one hour. That of course is assuming perfect combustion. Frankly, I can push it that far easier! Even if there is a slight uphill grade!

I chose to use this comparison because none of the techno-babble being spewed by these sites actually breaks down just how much energy is required to break apart the water into hydrogen and oxygen. Then they definately do not explain exactly how much energy you get back! You can in fact out-perform their gizmo, by simply pushing your car/truck by some five to ten times! The power used to create the gas isn't "free" it's also really a significant amount when you rationalize it! There is a real good reason that the alternator requires a strong belt to drive it.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2008 at 11:09AM
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ken_in_kc

Well, I do have a degree in chemisty and I just heard about this joke a few weeks ago. John G put more effort writing about this than it deserves.

I believe it's the first law of thermodynamics that's part of the problem with it. Plus as John alluded to, there's not much energy in a liter of hydrogen.

The HHO brown gas thing gives me a chuckle also.

Ken

    Bookmark   June 24, 2008 at 3:57PM
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mrsc

All I read is that it will not work. Who has tried this?

    Bookmark   July 4, 2008 at 2:51PM
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mxyplx

What always impresses me on these things is that they are written so convincingly.

Are the authors totally stupid and trying to work with stuff they've read and don't actually understand or really super clever Phd types trying to put one over?

I recall in school when we were studying thermodynamics of jet engines (aircraft jet power plants) I listened to a street fighting con artist scumbag who made it thru 6th grade explain how a jet engine worked. Really, he hadn't a clue. But it was very difficult to untangle his convoluted total BS explanantion. My brother and I were able afterward to pick it apart but it was an amazing snow job and if you didn't know better........

We didn't argue with him - we weren't street fighters. :-)

    Bookmark   July 5, 2008 at 10:10AM
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sailor86

there's desperation and those who will capitalize on it going on in our society today. These physics majors either knowingly or not do not follow through with their hypotheses. So they don't display the full message. I personally plan to research thoroughly any new-fangled plan concerning alternative fuel. I'm enjoying my car while I can but just to be sure, I've kept my bicycle in the shed.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2008 at 11:10AM
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mrsc

Will somebody please tell me they have tried it and it did not work.

    Bookmark   August 18, 2008 at 4:52PM
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john_g

Try searching the EPA website for the tests they have run. You can also try wikipedia, they have it right.

As far as trying it to prove it does not work, I would have to equate that with using a porch table umbrella as a parachute to prevent an injury when jumping off of a tall building. Imagine someone making a very convincing argument that it works, I don't believe them so I try and see if you have, or will try to do it to "prove" that it actually works. BTW, don't try it, HHO, and porch table parachutes both do not work, and I don't have to try either of them to know!

    Bookmark   August 22, 2008 at 8:40AM
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carwaterguide

Has anyone tried the kit? like water4gas,runyourcaronwater etc.
Is it really a scam? if you don't satisfy you can asked for refund..no more pain
You can truly get better mileage .....

Here is a link that might be useful: carwaterguide.blogspot.com

    Bookmark   September 24, 2008 at 10:58AM
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john_g

Hmmm. Tell you what. Use your real name and real contact information, and from there you buy the kit, and forward it to a neutral party for real testing. "after all, YOU could ask for the refund when we prove this is a scam"...

1. I don't for a second believe anyone who asks for a refund will ever see a dime back. Now they may get directions on what they did wrong, and then for some additional expense, they will be led to believe how those determined mistakes can be corrected.

2. From the link you provided, which sadly comes after the line "here's a link that may be helpful" there is this paragraph in some of the text,

"Car companies design vehicles to get poor gas mileage. Only 25% of the energy in a gallon of gas is used, and 75% is wasted. Instead of making vehicles more fuel efficient, catalytic converters were designed to cook this extra 75% of the fuel before exiting the tailpipe. Car companies are even installing devices in many vehicles to prevent hydrogen generators from converting water to gas that must be disabled. = Now you decide who the scam artists are."

Catalytic converters were designed to "cook"??? From there they cook 75% of the fuel the vehicle consumes? Wow, who writes this trash? They have no real idea how vehicles actually work, and they are relying on the fact that most of the readers don't as well. That's the hallmark of a scam artists rip-off. Techno-babble, written just well enough that anyone without a sufficient education might start to believe it.

    Bookmark   September 24, 2008 at 5:05PM
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