American Standard vs. Toto Toilets

dkfinorFebruary 27, 2008

Hi,

I am looking at the American Standard Town Square vs. Toto Clayton Toilets. Any reviews on these two brands? TIA!

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sean_m

While I've not used the AS Town Square nor Toto Clayton specifically, I *insist* on having Toto toilets in all of my residences. My newest home had 2 brand new AS toilets in it. Let's just say that I became very close friends with Mr. Plunger and Mr. Toilet Auger. After 2 months of dealing with that (including a not-so-humourous-at-the-time story of clogging both AS toilets while sick) I promptly order Totos and haven't looked back.

So:
Condo 1 - Installed 2x Toto Pacifica's in 2001. Very stylish, probably the "worst" performing of the Totos I have, but that's still better than most of the other toilets out there. Not a great bowl wash 'though. Install requires drilling holes in floor.

Condo2 - 2x Toto Aquia's in early 2007. VERY impressed. Stylish. Great bowl wash, 0.9 / 1.5 L dual flush, very quiet. Does *NOT* use the standard American siphon design. Sucks a whole roll of Charmin Ultra 2-ply down in 1 flush because of this. Not sure if it's even really possible to clog one of these because of it's continuously-emptying design. My "fave" of the bunch, but not for everyone. Install requires drilling holes in floor. Also recommend getting Toto's seat for this one -- it makes sure the user's um...properly-aligned...over the business part of the bowl. If you saw one you'd understand.

Parent's condo - 2x Toto Drake's in 2002. Standard-looking toilet, very powerful flush. Also are commercial-rated fixtures. Standard toilet mounting, no drilling needed.

My church -- 5x Toto Drake's in 2004. They kept having problems with the sewer line becoming clogged and toilets not emptying. Rather than tear apart the concrete slab, I suggested they replace the 5 Gallon toilets w/Toto 1.5L's. They've not needed to call Roto Rooter since the Totos were installed.

So, that's quite a few toilets I've had installed/recommended. So far (7 years & still "going"), no reports of clogs or double-flushing needed. Not sure what the story on the American Standard toilets was. American Standard kept saying it was my plumbing at the condo, but the Totos haven't had any trouble with it. I've given away the plunger and toilet auger to friends with similar AS toilets.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2008 at 12:06AM
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livvysmom

I have the Toto Drake. Lets just say sometimes you have to flush twice to keep it clean (if you know what I mean).

    Bookmark   February 28, 2008 at 8:47AM
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oskiebabu

Certain models of the Toto Ultra Max can be delivered free from various online outlets for under $400. It is an excellent toilet and not noisy.It also comes with a soft close seat.

I have an UltraMax ADA and a Toto Soiree ADA. I like both, but the Soiree is exceptional with its double cyclonic flush. It has never clogged and it almost always removes any "telltale signs" that it was used previously.

The Clayton is pretty good, but not one of the best Toto's.

Greg

    Bookmark   February 28, 2008 at 10:30AM
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dkfinor

Thank you so much for the feedback! I'm learning a lot :)

What does ADA Compliant mean?

    Bookmark   February 28, 2008 at 8:21PM
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rjoh878646

ADA = Americans with Disabilities Act = comfort height toilet

    Bookmark   February 28, 2008 at 8:34PM
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thetews

I don't know about the Town Square model, but I recently put the AS Cadet 3 model in my powder room and I love it. It is comfort height and elongated. Always before, when my MIL visited, we'd be sure to have to use the plunger at least once in the powder room (the only bath room she can use since she can't go upstairs) because of her excessive use of TP. Since we got the Cadet 3, she has visited twice, for a total of 8 days, and not once has the plunger been needed. Also, the bowl stays remarkably clean between cleanings.

We're remodelling our master bath now, (DIY'ing so it's taking some time) and I'm planning on putting in the exact same toilet there.

    Bookmark   February 29, 2008 at 8:14AM
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thull

There's always the performance test results.

Here is a link that might be useful: CUWCC water closet testing

    Bookmark   February 29, 2008 at 11:24AM
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cindy_socal

FWIW, I just saw the AS Cadet 3 Comfort Height Elongated at HD for $164.

    Bookmark   February 29, 2008 at 6:54PM
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catbird

We've had the AS Champion 4 for several months and love it! Works great every time. It's elongated, comfort height. Bought at Lowes. Recommend it highly.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2008 at 7:56PM
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effiemyrtle

Had a Toto for about 5 years - I wouldn't buy anything else. Works great.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2008 at 1:05AM
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annie1956

Only Toto for me! Read Terry Love's site and then make a decision. (BTW - we put in a Toto Drake ADA and love it). Have heard too many negatives about the others.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2008 at 8:05AM
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ladyamity

Several of our friends were remodeling about the time we started our bathroom remodel.
Their remodels are almost done while ours is in limbo.

What we do have installed so far in our remodel is the Toto G-Max, ADA.

I have had several occasions to use the friends' toilets, American Standard and another who's brand I don't remember, and I can say with complete conviction I love our Toto the best!

We also have a 2 yr. old, mid price range American Standard in our front bathroom.

After getting used to our Toto ADA then having to use the front bathroom toilet a month later, I felt as if I was about to fall on the floor because it sits so much lower!

The non-ADA seems so much louder and according to my husband, the American Standard always needs a 'courtesy flush'.

I wouldn't trade my Toto, elongated, ADA for any amount of money!

    Bookmark   March 2, 2008 at 10:32AM
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djdoggone

thull: thanks for posting the CUWCC info. It is an excellent resource.

What I haven't figured out is the SPS specification for longevity. Haven't got a clue about toilet technology, i.e., flappers. Do they mean it would be easy to fix?

Would you choose a 1000 gram toilet with the idea that it would do a better bowl wash? Even though the max required is 350?

I'm surprised at the number of very good toilets that are gravity feeds, when Consumer Reports clearly favors pressure-assisted.

And I'm surprised that the Totos rank mid-range, for the most part, in the number of grams of waste they move, when people clearly like them so much. But they seem to do well as having longevity and conserving water. But so does American Standard and Gerber.

Am I missing something, or are there a lot of very good toilets from which to choose?

    Bookmark   March 2, 2008 at 10:36AM
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gabedad

I have the clayton and love it

    Bookmark   March 3, 2008 at 8:56AM
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thull

My opinion is that Toto really beat everyone, circa 2003. Everyone else has kind of caught up in the meantime. We have 2 Totos and like them, though.

A gravity toilet is going to be easier/cheaper to fix than a pressure assist if/when it breaks. The key actually is to get OEM parts rather than fit-all-models stuff from HD. In a lot of cases a low-flow toilet can become higher flow with off-brand replacement parts.

I generally take Consumer Reports as a whole with a big old block of salt.

Just based on a quick scan of the full report, the SPS longevity measurement is how well the toilet maintains its reduced flow over its lifetime. This only applies to gravity models, not pressure assisted.

And I have no idea on bowl wash- that's one criteria the MAP testing specifically says you need to figure out if it's acceptable on your own. They just do performance.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2008 at 10:20AM
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sean_m

Toto still makes the best toilets, but the other manufacturers have come a LONG way.

BUT when you compare the Toto's "fit & finish" compared to the others, you do notice a difference. Better, more consistent glazing, fewer irregularities, smoother surfaces (which are less prone to staining/clogging). Look over Toto's performance and it's consistently good, whereas the others may have 1-2 good performers and the rest aren't worth (taking) a crap (in).

Add me to the list of people who doesn't think Consumer Reports is worth the paper it's printed on. When they come up with different performance ratings for the exact same appliance, just with a different nametag slapped on it, their testing methods (and common sense) are flawed.

FWIW, the Lowe's stores here carry OEM Toto parts.

I look at it this way... You install a new toilet about every ~20 years. For the money, I'll gladly pay a little more now than deal with the chance of a poor-performing toilet (like I had with the new Amer. Std. toilets that came with the house).

    Bookmark   March 3, 2008 at 3:01PM
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somonica

Yes, I've both AS and Toto dual-flush toilet installed last year. The way they flush are very different and they both do their jobs nicely! Toto do have stronger half flush than the AS. But the AS dual flush is far more easy to install than the Toto Aquia. And AS dual-flush cost about half of the Toto....

Here is a link that might be useful: New AS flowise dual-flush toilet

    Bookmark   April 1, 2008 at 3:16PM
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malhgold

bump

    Bookmark   September 12, 2008 at 7:20PM
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mmme

We installed a Toto Drake and like it very much.

It's a little louder than I expected, though. Instead of the swirling sound I'm used to from a toilet, it's more of a fast suck/glug. Which I'm not crazy about.

    Bookmark   September 13, 2008 at 12:49PM
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mizmom

So for the past 15 years I have not had much to compare to our builder grade Crane's. (which were supposed to be upgraded from whatever was the builder standard). My mother has American Standard about 10 years old and they were fairly nice compared to our Crane's ( which are 2 flushers, hold down the handle and lots of swirling water).
We just installed a Toto UltraMax ADA with soft close seat.....WOW...swish. I wish we could replace the other 3 toilets in the house with a Toto.... It seems to use very little water, one flush and everything is all gone. And not much noise compared to all the whining pipes from all the water filling the tanks on the other three toilets left to replace. I am a Toto convert.

    Bookmark   September 14, 2008 at 10:04PM
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toilet_dood

All recent American Standard 6L toilet Launched since 2005 roughly have all proven to Beat all competitor INCLUDING TOTO... aside from the American Standard Aquaforce flushing system, The Champion and the Cadet 3 Flush Right system are by far superior to the TOTO and Keep in mind American Standards Silver based Anti-Microbial glaze Inside and out that is standard on those system, is something TOTO does not offer... TOTO do not keep clean and have questionable after sale service... and paying extra for sanagloss is ridiculous, Although I respect Terry Love site please keep in mind that it seems that he is sponsored by TOTO... The only site that counts is the CWWA MAP test which Puts American Standard consistently in the lead since revamping the 6L line. Flowise, Flush Right, Champion are the best.

    Bookmark   September 14, 2008 at 10:39PM
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marzhere

Slightly OT but wanted to add our water provider is offering rebates for HE (high efficency) toilet purchases. They rebate $125 for certain toilets (super HE type) and $25 (HE type) for others. Be sure to check your water company for any rebates they may offer.

    Bookmark   September 16, 2008 at 7:24PM
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mizmom

hmmm...Dood...
I am not saying that you are not correct since I have not seen scientific evidence...just personal experience that I was relaying. But, I am guessing that your are an American Standard rep or somehow make money from that company. Either the Anti-Microbial glaze or the sanagloss both sound like marketing to me. I can't imagine there is long term scientific backing for either.
Whatever, I still love the Toto that we just installed.

    Bookmark   September 16, 2008 at 7:29PM
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igloochic

I started our remodel with one AS and two Kohler's in mind for the house. By the time it was finished, I changed out the AS and the Kohlers for Toto's and a Sunrise Specialty toilet. I have to say, all three do their job well, and the Toto's finish (the reason I switched from AS and Kohler) is devine. The SS toilet finish is also fabulous, but it's a boutique toilet so you'd expect that. But the Toto's are just as lovely.

Do I care if a toilet is pretty...well sure, they're a "Fixture" not likely to leave the room ;) But I also have been living with a couple AS toilets here in our remodel a Gerber and another funky brand. They're ummmm how to say this "Crap at Crap" heck you can't put liquid in the stupid things sometimes I swear. One area I don't want to spend time on in life is my head in a toilet trying to fix it. I love that I haven't had any issues with many contractors using the Toto's and the SS.

For giggles...this is a SS toilet (I just adore it...sad that I've fallen in love with a toilet, but I have to admit it...My toto's are cute...but this puppy is just sexy!!!)

    Bookmark   September 17, 2008 at 12:19AM
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mary_md7

The original post was months ago, but for other readers...

We just renovated three bathrooms and installed AS Cadet3 comfort height toilets. Very happy with them so far.

    Bookmark   September 17, 2008 at 2:48AM
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jagl

I have the Toto Clayton and love it. I've only had it for 2 months, but its been great so far.

    Bookmark   September 17, 2008 at 11:04PM
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alexamd

I can't speak for AS...other than the 43 year old ones in my father's house and the 67 year old colbalt blue one that I ripped out for our reno. I think the product has changed a bit since those were made.

We now have 3 Totos (2 ultramax and 1 clayton) and one Sani Flush (basement pumping toilet). The Totos are great. I was a little skeptical when I first flushed it, but we are at 10 months and going strong. No clogs. I would recommend them. I have sanigloss on the ultramaxes, but I don't see a significant difference between them and the clayton. I will say that all of them don't get dirty as fast as our old toilets and they are a breeze to clean.

    Bookmark   September 20, 2008 at 5:31PM
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cindiw2

Wow...this is an interesting thread. My plumber told me to get a Toto toilet and so I tuned into this thread, but boy it sure is interesting!! :-) thanks guys!

    Bookmark   September 20, 2008 at 6:36PM
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tkbalt

Toto's are the best 1.6 gal flush toilets out there in my opinion. We moved into a house in 99 with 1 each Gerber, Eljer, and AS low flush toilets. Plunger sales are up due to these manufacturers toilets. We replaced all three with TOTO Drake's and could immediately tell the difference. While I would not say they never clogged - they were MUCH better performers. If you are going 1.6Gal - get a TOTO with one of their G-Max systems - they perform very well.

We have since moved again into a home built in the 40's - and have 3.5 gal flush toilets. Been here 2 years - don't even know where my plunger is. While the TOTO's are the best of the 1.6's - in my opinion nothing beats the old time 3.5 gallon flush models (that are still available in Canada).

    Bookmark   September 21, 2008 at 7:57AM
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moonkat99

I installed an AS Cadet 3 (comfort height) a year & a half ago in one bath, & have had zero problems with it. I bought it, based on info from here, stating that it had exactly the same innards as a Toto Drake, but at less than half the cost.

It's been easy to keep clean, looks better than a lot of toilets (better than the Drake, imho - although no where near as sexy as igloochic's SS!), & given the performance & cost, I'll probably get another one for the second bath.

Which is why I'm back here researching again - more necessary remodeling/repairs happening. *sigh*

    Bookmark   October 19, 2008 at 4:40PM
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PRO
Avanti Tile & Stone (Stonetech)

Try the Gerber Avalanche toilet. Half the cost and EVERY bit as good. I say this because we have one and my wife sells them all....Toto, AS, Gerber, etc.

    Bookmark   October 19, 2008 at 8:06PM
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effiemyrtle

We've had the Toto Carlyle for over 8 years. I think we have had to get out the plunger once. I am sold on Toto's.

    Bookmark   October 20, 2008 at 8:24AM
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janealexa

BUMP- now considering the following toilets (see below), any current input?? Was considering the Toto Vespin II b/c of the full skirt, but then I read that the back of the toilet is open and impossible to reach inside and clean...
AS Cadet 3
AS Champion 4
Toto Drake ADA
Toto Vespin II

    Bookmark   September 10, 2011 at 11:56AM
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Pluvaricles

I could not make up my mind, so I bought one Toto Drake and one Gerber Avalanche. We have had them a little more than 2 years. Summary - although the Drake tends to leave a little more residue after a solid waste event, it performs slightly better than the Avalanche in all other respects. Here are the details:

1. The Drake seems to be a more robust flusher. We use the toilets equally, more or less. The Drake clogged once and was easy to clear. The Avalanche has clogged on at least 5 occasions. Each time, it took considerable effort to get it working again - multiple plunges and multiple flushes.

2. The Avalanche is a cleaner flusher - less residue after large, solid waste deposits.

3. I have not quantified, but it appears the Drake uses slightly less water per flush, based upon the flapper open time and the time required to fill the tank.

4. Although we are on public water, we do have a problem with scale build-up. The Drake seems to stay cleaner longer than the Avalanche; I have had to mechanically scrape the scale off the Avalanche a few times.

    Bookmark   December 29, 2011 at 3:17PM
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cruzinpattis

Love this site.
Never heard of Toto toilets before. Very informative.
Starting to plan a remodel... Right now I have a 5 g American Standard toilet that sometimes require 2-3 flushes per use...Want to replace it with a power flusher that doesn't need plunging and can flush a meatloaf down with one single flush.
Sounds like Toto is the way to go.

    Bookmark   February 14, 2014 at 12:58PM
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jerzeegirl

I am getting ready to order a Toto Aquia. I want a Toto and I have a 10" rough in so that narrowed it down quite a bit. The only drawback is limited color choice - I get to choose between Cotton White and Cotton White.

    Bookmark   February 14, 2014 at 2:37PM
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andy_m

Performance of Totos seem to vary a lot from model to model. Most like the Drake. I have a Guinevere and it is terrible, but has a great flush. The bad part is that everything (ahem) sticks to the Sanagloss and the mechanism doesn't work well. Reviews on Amazon seem to reflect dissatisfaction with this model. AS is probably good.... but my experience with AS products is that the quality tends to be hit or miss.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2014 at 2:13PM
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InTheBloom

I have the American Standard H2Option and have been very pleased. ToTo seems to cost more than American Standard. I know both make great toilets, I just feel you get a bit more for the money with Americann Standard. Here is a link to a site that only does toilet reveiws (who would of thought) that might be helpful.

Here is a link that might be useful: Everything Toilet Reviews

    Bookmark   February 19, 2014 at 1:16PM
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jsaklas

I have the AS Champion and it has NEVER clogged, my Kohlers have always clogged. I never owned a TOTO, but the TOTO Drake has a 20% smaller trapway (2 and 1/8" while the AS has a 2 and 3/8" which is an area 19+% smaller) and a 3" flush valve while the AS has a 4" flush valve, so I think it would be impossible for the TOTO to flush as well as the AS.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2014 at 6:48PM
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herring_maven

jsaklas: "I have the AS Champion and it has NEVER clogged, my Kohlers have always clogged. I never owned a TOTO, but the TOTO Drake has a 20% smaller trapway (2 and 1/8" while the AS has a 2 and 3/8" which is an area 19+% smaller) and a 3" flush valve while the AS has a 4" flush valve, so I think it would be impossible for the TOTO to flush as well as the AS."

Your personal experience with a real-world product is a valid testimonial; your rationalization for why is not based on good science.

The diameter of the "solids" to be flushed is pretty much limited by human physiognomy. Every -- pardon me for using the proper word -- turd has a diameter that is limited by the orifice through which it passes. You will not find many -- if any -- turds that exceed 2-1/8" in diameter. The length of a turd, however, is less constrained than is its diameter. After passing through the trapway, the turd must make its way into a sewage line.

And that is where many toilets made in China (whisper: "American Standard") fall short. You can have a FOUR inch trapway, but if the trapway ends in a 90 degree turn with a tight radius, you will get clogs from time to time. One of the limitations of the MaP test, revered by many, and 99 percent based on an engineering model developed by Toto, is that the MaP test ends at the exit from the trapway. But if a long turd has to make a sharp 90 degree turn from the exit from the trapway, the toilet will clog, no matter how capacious the trapway diameter is.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2014 at 10:22PM
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