Installing a Miele (or other) speed oven behind a door?

marcoloFebruary 20, 2013

Depending which range I choose, I may need a speed oven instead of just a plain microwave.

Is it possible to install a Miele speed oven inside a tall cabinet behind a door? This would be next to an integrated fridge. The total available depth of the cab is 27". The Miele requires a cab depth of only 21 5/8", so there is room for an air space between the appliance door and the cab door. I'm not sure where the Miele vents because there is no mandatory trim kit like most standard microwaves and no visible venting like most ovens. The door is also supposed to stay cool.

I know the instinctive reaction will be to say no, but I want to know whether this is possible with this one particular appliance. There is no option to install it exposed.

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chac_mool

Not sure if there are warranty issues around this. But Miele's speed oven vents air out the front, in a narrow strip above the top of the door and below the controls, and it runs for some time after the oven is off. Of course, there will need to be somewhere for this warm exhaust air to go, and this may be a problem if its in an enclosed space. The door stays fairly cool (i.e., not hot) when the oven is running, at least when it can vent freely.

[Other speed ovens have very hot doors (e.g., the Advantium) and are not supposed to be installed below a counter, because kids might burn themselves.]

    Bookmark   February 21, 2013 at 12:29AM
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GWlolo

Hi Marcolo - I checked with Miele on this as I wanted a pull down shelf that could fold to a door. They said it is a safety hazard and void the warranty. I am not sure what your design is but they are good at researching and getting back to you. I ultimately found a gagg combi on CL and decided to get that and went with a simple panasonic microwave.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2013 at 4:37PM
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xedos

The venting continues to cool the electronic boards. You don't want to impede that airflow lest you burn out the board prematurely. Usually a $500 + fix !

More importantly is a building code issue that requires ( or at least did 7-8 yrs ago) that an oven behind a door has to have an automatic cutoff switch to interrupt power to the oven whenever the door is closed.

To answer your question, everything is possible given enough time and money. Practicality is another matter.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2013 at 7:33PM
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Fori is not pleased

Obviously you'd leave the door open until the unit was completely cool. If you do that I don't see how it is different from a more typical cabinet installation.

The switch mentioned by Xedos wouldn't be a bad idea, even if you were skirting code by not having a door installed at the time of inspection. That's a good safeguard against uninformed visitors.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2013 at 9:42PM
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xedos

fori - you'd be surprised at what some people do not find obvious, or what the uninformed will do.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2013 at 10:48PM
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marcolo

I don't think you have to be Warren Buffet or a team of MIT engineers to install a closet door light switch on the cabinet door, if it came to that.

GWlolo, that is pretty much the setup I'm looking at. This came up abruptly because this space was supposed to house only a microwave, but now there's a chance I'll move from a two-oven range to a one-oven range, and so would need an extra oven.

I have a countertop Breville, never used yet. Kind of embarrassing to do a major kitchen remodel and then have guests catch you cooking in a toaster oven, though.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2013 at 11:25PM
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xedos

Your choices for a momentary switch that is compact, good looking and handles 220 volts are quite small.

Closet switch from the borg won't work.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 8:44AM
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marcolo

Any suggestions?

I really don't see why this is such a big deal. Europe is not aflame due to the introduction of hidden ovens. It's not like these are normally installed with nothing above them anyway.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 12:20PM
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weissman

Just put it behind some drapes :-) Why is hiding it such a big deal? Regular wall ovens and range ovens don't get hidden.

By the way, the Breville toaster oven is an excellent appliance. No reason to be embarrassed using it.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 1:12PM
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xedos

It's not really a big deal - unless someone else uses your kitchen , or buys it from you and doesn't understand the ramifications of closing the door on an operating oven with the broiler, convection and bottom elements all running.

It's not a big deal if you aren't having it inspected, or the inspector doesn't catch on to what you are doing.

Europe runs on 220v exclusively so the switches are more plentiful and the cabinet manuf. that show / design these installs these installs have a solution ready made in most cases.

Building / safety codes are not for YOU, they are for other people that may or may not come along and not think or have the same perspective and experience that you do. You know not to stick a fork or knife into a wall outlet, but your niece's toddler might not. That's why all of us have to have tamper proof outlets now.

The concealed oven's power interrupt is the same thing.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 1:30PM
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marcolo

So you have no actual suggestions, then? That's fine.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 1:58PM
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Fori is not pleased

May be a long shot, but ask the bathroom forum. Some people install those for curling irons that plug into and live in drawers. You'd want a beefier one but maybe could get a mfr name.

(We don't have to have tamper proof wall outlets where I live to be up to code. But then I'm in California where we don't really have much government regulation.)

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 2:06PM
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marcolo

Good idea, fori. Momentary switches bring up a lot of irrelevant results. Glad to know you're living in CA, land of the Galts.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 2:25PM
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xedos

I have done this a few times, but due to the nature of the design and the work involved, I am not willing to share it in a open forum.

Sorry.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 2:43PM
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marcolo

OMG. Who publishes on an advice forum saying, "I know the answer but I'm not telling you?"

Fori--I gave it a shot and posted in Baths. Thanks.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 3:05PM
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xedos

quit whining marco ,

advising you about the specifics of a non standard installation for an oven that could potentially burn your house down and lead to injury is not something I am comfortable posting about in a public forum.

I have told you what you want to do is possible, answering your question. I have also told you what type of part you need to accomplish it.

If you want a specific solution for your home , you should hire a designer, electrician and or and electrical engineer, or purchase a cabinetry solution from a European vendor that has this feature.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 5:31PM
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marcolo

Get out of my thread, please. If anyone has anything actually helpful to add, they shouldn't have to wade through all the flatulance.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 6:45PM
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Fori is not pleased

I think the name of the product would actually be helpful so that Marcolo could be assured when hiring an electrician that the electrician hired knows what she's doing. I do not believe that Marcolo is intending to slap something together based on random scraps of information on the internets.

That said, popup trailers have a mechanism that cuts off power when the roof is cranked down to avoid having lights burn holes in the canvas. Maybe you can use one of those! :P

(I'd tell ya, but if I did I'd have to kill the forum?)

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 7:06PM
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xedos

marco - that's exactly the attitude that makes me leery of giving you specifics. If something were to go amiss - you'll be looking at me.

Also, I fail to see why you even need help. After all:

"I don't think you have to be Warren Buffet or a team of MIT engineers to install a closet door light switch on the cabinet door, if it came to that. "

and besides didn't you say it wasn't a big deal anyway, so why lose any sleep over it ?

Furthermore, this is not YOUR thread. You started it, but it is a public forum that other people might read next week, or next year.

fori - I already mentioned the product to use. I am not willing to be more specific than that publicly - especially for someone with an antagonistic attitude.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2013 at 10:29PM
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marcolo

fori-thanks for the suggestion. I got some manufacturers' names to check out in Baths if I need them.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 10:26AM
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live_wire_oak

The problem is the voltage required. There just aren't that many 240 volt switches that do what you need. There are several 120 ones though. Your best bet will be to talk to whomever is going to do the electrical for your renovation and have him talk to his local supply house. I'm certain that these switches do exist, as there is one on one of our welders that is housed in a job box, but I have never seen an attractive one that I would put into a kitchen. But, I'm not that up to date on uncommon electrical components. Your electrician may not be either, but he can make the supply houses do more research for him. If there is a solution out there that will work and look attractive, I'd bet that the local supply house in a large metro area like yours would know of it. And since you will need the electrician to install it anyway, put the burden of research onto him and he can put it onto the suppliers.

Have you thought about just choosing a more "retro" looking oven so as to not feel so ashamed of it's modern looks as to need to conceal it?

Edited to remove all of the links to wall ovens and not speed ovens. Not enough coffee this a.m.

Turbochef

This post was edited by live_wire_oak on Sun, Feb 24, 13 at 12:24

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 11:52AM
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Fori is not pleased

I think there is an Advantium speed oven with the 120 instead of 240.

Redesign kitchen so speed oven is hiding behind the island in a lower cabinet? Use radiator mesh over some doors? Cook like you're in the twenties? :)

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 12:21PM
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marcolo

Problem is the lateness in the hour with respect to the design. It's all driven by last-minute concerns about an Aga Legacy, which would require a secondary small oven somewhere else. All of the places a wall oven could go are now firmly dedicated to something else. That's why I'm slowly swinging back toward the Aga.

Funny that nobody makes a countertop speed oven. Why not? A Breville gets pretty darn hot, and that can sit on a counter. A microwave comes in countertop models, too. Why not the combination?

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 2:25PM
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xedos

Funny thing, that.

There are at least two countertop convection microwaves / speed ovens that I know about.

Sharp makes a commercial version and has their countertop steam oven. Turbo Chef also makes a counter version but good luck finding that. I'd post links but I won't overstay my welcome since you wanted me to butt out.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 5:32PM
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Fori is not pleased

Besides, if it were on the counter, we'd be able to SEE it!

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 5:37PM
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xedos

Unless , it was in an appliance garage.

With a door.

Wink.

Also, thinking about it some more- almost all of the built in convection micros form Wolf, Dacor, Thermador, Bosch, ect... are really just countertop models with a fancy trim kit to match the rest of the line. Panasonic makes convection micro countertop model too.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 6:45PM
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Fori is not pleased

But...but...wasn't the whole discussion about an appliance garage, just up a little higher and y a different name? or uh...

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 6:58PM
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xedos

yes it was .............until a few posts ago , when the direction changed.

do try and keep up.

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 10:23AM
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Fori is not pleased

A countertop unit could be stuffed in a pantry cabinet when not in use though so it's not entirely a new direction. It's actually a really tempting option for a second oven.

But what I've read about speed ovens, people really like them so it could end up out all the time.

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 9:22PM
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deedles

Wow.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 12:39AM
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