Converting your car to a water hybrid

artz123March 25, 2008

Has anyone heard of the water4gas

Here is a link that might be useful: watertogashybrid.com

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john_g

Do not let yourself fall for a scam like that. Water injection has been around for years and there was a time that it could actually make a difference. But it did not burn, it simply cooled the intake charge a little, and then because the water droplets turned to steam and greatly expanded when the cylinder fired they not only helped reduce burn temperature and reduced pinging (detonation) but it would actually help create a higher cylinder pressure. Some aircraft still use a water injection system but it simply won't make a difference on one of todays cars. With variable cam timing, and of course EGR todays engines are already partially filling the cylinder with inert gasses and reducing the fuel charge to allow for the best fuel economy possible while allowing the engine to also be operated in a way to get really great power when desired.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2008 at 8:33PM
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gary__

I think this is a different product than you're thinking of john. I installed water injection in my '67 chevelle back in the late 70's. Can't remember now, it had 10.25 or 10.5 to 1 compression. By the late 70's 8 was more the norm, and octane followed. I installed the water injection to control spark knock, but it also knocked the performance in the head so I quit using it after a while. Addressed the problem with carb and timing adjustments.

Looks like the product the poster is talking about is supposed to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen, then burn the hydrogen through the engine. Actually, there may not even be a product, just instructions how to do it yourself. No way it can be practical at this point in time. I used to keep tabs on a company that was developing a gas to hydrogen conversion kit. They used a hydrogen generator (that you would have to keep at your house) to extract the hydrogen from water through electrolysis. This hydrogen generator used solar power to supply the required energy. Then they'd fill a number of small tanks with the hydrogen from that generator. The tanks contained some trick material that would absorb the hydrogen until it was needed. The tanks would be heated to release the hydrogen to the car fuel system. They installed this system on a number of experimental cars and tore them down from time to time to see how they held up. They encountered several major problems. One being it took a long time to generate enough hydrogen. Second, it took a lot of fuel tanks to get any kind of range out of the test vehicles. Third and most important, the engines self destructed after a relatively short period of time running on hydrogen...something like 40k or 50k miles. It appeared that burning hydrogen was hard on the pistons and other aluminum components somehow. Hydrogen may be the answer some day, but not with the material used in engines today. I'll post the link if I can find it. Been a few years since the test failed, and the company developing the idea didn't seem to know where they could go with it after that.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2008 at 10:43PM
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gary__

Found the link. The company apparently hasn't given up on the idea. Hope it works.

Here is a link that might be useful: hydrogen conversion

    Bookmark   March 25, 2008 at 10:50PM
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jemdandy

You don't get hydrogen from water for free! It takes a lot of energy to rip the water molecule in into hydrogen and oxygen. Since almost all processes are not 100% efficient, it will take more energy to electroyze hydrogen from water than you'll get back when the hydrogen is oxidized (burned) again. And of course, you have mentioned the problem of storing hydrogen safely in useable quantities.

The only reason that hydrogen was looked at as a possible fuel source (by reputable researchers) was its ability to readily oxidize leaving water as the combustion product, a friendly tail pipe emmision. To date, practical considerations and poor overall process efficiencies have doomed hydrogen as an automotive fuel. There are a few gas wells that produce hydrogen, but these also may have hydrogen-sulfide in the raw mix coming out of the well head.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2008 at 12:42AM
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nine7xbam

Doomed ? Apparently someone forgot to tell Norway and their hydrogen corridor project called HyNor . Saw it a few months ago on Discovery in a show called Future Cars . Interesting stuff , especially since The Governator is planning a like project for CA. in the near future .

Here is a link that might be useful: HyNor

    Bookmark   March 30, 2008 at 3:33PM
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gary__

**The only reason that hydrogen was looked at as a possible fuel source (by reputable researchers) was its ability to readily oxidize leaving water as the combustion product, a friendly tail pipe emmision.**

I don't think that's the only reason. Other reasons are there's a lot of hydrogen, and it will run in the gas engines that everyone has already. As to cost effectiveness, someone ought to figure in the cost of keeping a lid on those head cases in the middle east and else ware. That cheep *cough* $3.50 gallon of gasoline probably really costs you $10. Pay for Bush's misadventures in Iraq with a tax on gasoline instead of borrowing from our good friends *cough* the Chinese, hydrogen or electric powered cars won't seem like such a bad idea. Bet the technology would develop pretty fast if we through a few trillion bucks at it instead of using it trying to maintain the status quo.

    Bookmark   March 30, 2008 at 3:53PM
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nine7xbam

Very well said !

    Bookmark   March 30, 2008 at 7:40PM
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johndeere

very very well said!

    Bookmark   March 31, 2008 at 11:51AM
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