Help with silver pattern...and a pretty!

woodsy_1 Zone 5b IllinoisDecember 6, 2010

I recently inherited my grandmother's silver flatware. She was married in 1923, so it would be from that time. I have searched online for days, and cannot find the pattern. I know it's a long shot, but it would be wonderful if some of the knowledgeable people here could give me some insight.

I know the *I S* in the mark means International Silver Co. Beyond that, I'm lost. Thanks for looking!

I'd also like to share the cases she made to store the pieces. I don't know what to call them. As you can see, they're lined with silver cloth, with individual pockets sewn in. I hope you appreciate them as much as I do!

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How cute! I wonder if they were a hope chest project.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2010 at 7:40PM
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Sorry I can't ID your pattern. I suggest you post the pictures to ""...they will surely know...but ask what pieces they have in need to seem to be interested in buying!
It's silverplate as you I am sure know....and the "keepers" are darling! Do you know who made them? I have found things like that at auction and wondered who made them....and why no one cared about them.
I put some silver spoons in them and gave them away!!
I hope you will use the set.
Linda C

    Bookmark   December 6, 2010 at 7:54PM
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Fori is not pleased

Is it "Tapestry"?

Love the keepers--she must have valued that set.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2010 at 8:10PM
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woodsy_1 Zone 5b Illinois

Fori, you are GOOD! Yes, the pattern is "Tapestry". I looked at patterns until my eyes crossed...many times. For reference, here's a pic of mine and an online pic of the Tapestry pattern:

Lindac...keepers...thank you! I hate using incorrect terminology. Now I know what they are called. My grandmother made them. Sheilajoyce, I wonder too if she made them after she received the flatware or in anticipation of it. Mom doesn't know, so it will remain a mystery.

And yes, I should have said silverPLATE in my OP. There's that pesky terminology again!

    Bookmark   December 6, 2010 at 9:21PM
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Fori is not pleased

Here's a question (Yeah I'm looking at LindaC!): Could you get these monogrammed at the factory, because they're the same font!?

    Bookmark   December 6, 2010 at 9:33PM
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This is just a guess.....but they are plated ware....and plated ware doesn't take a monogram unless a block of sterling is inserted....and that doesn't often happen with my guess is that you could order them with your choice of monogram.
Replacements says it's a 1940 pattern.
Keepers...LOL! That's just what I call them...they might be called "flatware rolls"?
Linda c

    Bookmark   December 6, 2010 at 11:28PM
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woodsy_1 Zone 5b Illinois

Replacements says it was discontinued in 1940. I'm not being argumentative, just trying to understand. Can you tell I'm new at this? LOL

It wouldn't surprise me if it were newer. Heck, if it were possible, she collected her set using Plaid Stamps or Green Stamps or some other Stamps! Gram fancied herself as being "fancy" and was prone to embellishing the truth. It was part of her charm. I also have her Harlequin dinnerware, which she called her "Fiesta". I hadn't seen it since I was a child. Imagine my surprise when I received it!

Re the keepers. Someone on another board called them that as well. You may be correct after all, Lindac!

    Bookmark   December 7, 2010 at 7:09AM
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I believe...upon a second look, that the 1940 is the pattern name! LOL!
It appears to have been very gently used.
Maybe she used Betty Crocker coupons? I remember people collecting silverware with them years ago.
At any rate you have a lovely keepsake.
I don't know Harlequin china. Does it look like Fiesta?
Linda C

    Bookmark   December 7, 2010 at 9:54AM
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Fori is not pleased

Thanks Linda. That would explain it! I wonder if the monogram would be consistent with the stamp method of collecting a set--did one mail in the stamps or did they keep the goods at the shop?

Is that a "grille" set with the long skinny handles? The knife shape especially makes the set more useful than the giant French (I think?) blades in older sets.

I would love to see a picture of Grandma's "Fiesta"!

    Bookmark   December 7, 2010 at 11:36AM
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Yep....that's a grille set....I don't think the "giant French knives" are at all awkward....and I have 2 old sterling sets with the big old blades.
I don't know why they were called "grille....maybe antique silver will weigh in here....

    Bookmark   December 7, 2010 at 12:17PM
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Fori is not pleased

I don't mind the big blades, but sometimes guests are a little surprised if they are unaccustomed to using old stuff. If I eat at my brother-in-law's house, I'll be lucky to get metal flatware. The idea of using nice things just because it's a holiday is weird to them. And the french blades scream OLD.

(I like the big blades--no way are those going in the dishwasher by accident. They're very easy to sort. I'm skittish about machine washing the knives.)

    Bookmark   December 7, 2010 at 1:02PM
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I machinew ash my sterling daily....and have since I first got a dishwasher in 1970. I am more careful about some ole 1890 stuff I have....but they do occasionally sneak in....and so far hasn't harmed them.
Depends if it's a stainless or silverplate blade.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2010 at 3:00PM
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Fori is not pleased

I'm sure this isn't too terribly off topic because Woodsy has some wonderful silverware. (Sorry for the detour!)

My sterling and plate knives have stainless blades, but I'm more concerned about the hollow handles. I'm not sure how they'd handle the heat. I AM almost ready to dump my stainless and use my plate daily, but it'll be in the dishwasher...

    Bookmark   December 7, 2010 at 3:31PM
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woodsy_1 Zone 5b Illinois

Chat away, Kids! I'm babysitting at DD's today, but I'll be back tonight or tomorrow with pictures of Gram's Harlequin.

In the words of Linda Richmond...Talk among yourselves! LOL

    Bookmark   December 7, 2010 at 4:34PM
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I don't know how old your knives are, but mine are fine in the dishwasher on the heat cycle....never had a problem with the resin in the handles.
But plated ware doesn't do well in the dishwasher....if there is one small spot where the plate has worn away, that spot will turn black from the chemicals. I would much rather put my sterling in the dishwasher that any plated ware. After all sterling is the same through and through and can always be polished or buffed....but the dishwasher does remove the oxidation in the pattern...
When I got a DW...I had to make a choice. Continue to use the sterling every day and not worry about it, wash it by hand and drive myself and my family crazy with the "Wait! That doesn't go in the dishwasher!" or to put it away and save it for company. I chose to use it and not worry about it....and it has given me great pleasure to do so.....even though some of the oxidation is gone on some of the forks and teaspoons.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2010 at 7:05PM
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Fori is not pleased

Thank you Woodsy :)

Yep, I do worry about putting the plate in the dishwasher, but I need to replace my stainless with something (you know how teaspoons disappear?) and it seems so silly to buy something else. I was prepared to use my sterling (I have inherited two sets) but neither set has enough pieces for everyday use (they lack spoons especially). My plate has spoons galore, in every shape imaginable. This is important when you have the messiest 5 year old ever. Spoon shape matters! It has no sentimental value because I bought it myself (cheap!).

Of course I like it, which is why I bought it.

Don't want to ruin it...don't want to leave it packed away. Hmm. (And handwashing isn't an option for everyday stuff.)

    Bookmark   December 7, 2010 at 8:57PM
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Linda, what do you mean by oxidation? I am thinking of using my sterling everyday and also was concerned about putting it in the DW.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2010 at 9:03PM
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Sorry I'm late to this party - & I have no idea why they're called 'grille' forks. Tere Hagan book's on silverplate patterns confirms the name as Tapestry, introduced in 1940. I love those keepers, Woodsy!


    Bookmark   December 7, 2010 at 9:53PM
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Bad picture....flash and a shiny table....I'll take another tomorrow if the sun shines!

The spoon on the left has spent kots of time in the dishwasher....the fork on the left...not so much. Notice the dark around the pattern and how it accents it.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2010 at 11:11PM
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Harlequin was a less expensive dinnerware by Homer Laughlin of Newell, W. Virgina 1938-1964. Sold unmarked in Woolworth stores. Rings are at edge of plate well, not on edge of plate like Fiesta. Came in lots of colors. Also Harlequin was a pattern by Hall designed by Eva Zeisel & of course that book doesn't show what Hall's looks like.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2010 at 2:09AM
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Fori is not pleased

So if you have a pattern that is set off by black stuff in the grooves, that can wash out over time in the dishwasher, right?

My sterling patterns are simple enough to not need that, but being simple means that scratches might show a bit more.

Well, my plate flatware only has value as a thing that is used and no value if it's "saved" so I think it's going in the dishwasher. (If it were my grandmother's silver it would absolutely be saved for times it would be hand washed though.)

    Bookmark   December 8, 2010 at 11:50AM
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woodsy_1 Zone 5b Illinois

I found this little tidbit while searching for info on my pattern. I have copied an excerpt from the linked article. I found it fascinating to learn why the knives and forks were named "grille". In researching other patterns I've collected, I kept finding them called "grill". Now THAT's confusing!

The New Style

So what of longer handled knifes with shorter blades and longer handled forks with shorter tines? This Style was developed over 70 years ago in 1930 and variously called Viande, Grille, and Vogue, which called for the handle to be longer than the blade to fit more comfortably in the hands of sophisticated tastes. Long-handled flatware also reappeared in Europe in the 1960s.

International's "Viande" and Oneida's "Grille"

The International Silver Company quickly acquired the rights to the style and its subsidiary 1847 Rogers Brothers called the new style "Viande." It was touted in contemporary advertising copy as the last word in smartness and chic." The word "Viande" was trademarked, and the Viande knife was patented. Other subsidiaries of International Silver followed suit. In addition, Oneida Silversmiths picked up the concept, calling the new style "Grille," and offered pieces under various labels in many silver-plated patterns.

It's Just a Style

As applied to flatware, the origins of the names "Viande" and "Grille," are unknown. Viande in French means "meat." "Grille" is a variation of the French term for cooked on a grill, or broiled. But neither word has any direct relevancy to the flatware design concept to which it was applied. It is believed that they were appropriated just because they sounded sophisticated and catchy.

But whatever you call it, and how often it is misidentified or not identified at all, when you see a Listing that features a long-handled fork or long-handled knife know that if it was made by International Silver Co. and its subdivisions, it should correctly be identified as Viande.

If it was made by Oneida Silversmiths and its subdivisions, it should be correctly identified as Grille. Even I will, most likely, continue to identify this "new" style as Grille/Viande to cover them both.

Gorham's "Vogue"

You don't see the word "Vogue" as much in terms of flatware, but worth mentioning here is that The Gorham Manufacturing Company was not to be left out in implementing the new style. Through its subsidiary the Alvin Corporation, the style was marketed as the "Vogue" and offered in several patterns. Alvin probably chose "Vogue" to convey the idea that the flatware patterns with the new design concept were fashionable and desirable. I have yet to see flatware by Gorham and its subdivisions being called Vogue. But just in case you see it, you will know what it is.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ebay Guide

    Bookmark   December 8, 2010 at 5:15PM
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Fori is not pleased

I thought the long handles would be good if you were doing marshmallows on the grill. :p

I'm just glad I don't need to buy a set for my classy barbecue parties! Thanks for sharing--are the tablespoons grilleish er I mean Viande as well? I'm having trouble picturing that.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2010 at 5:30PM
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woodsy_1 Zone 5b Illinois

On to the Harlequin! Mine is the Homer Laughlin version. Sunnyca's information is correct. It was sold at Woolworth's to those who couldn't afford the real Fiesta deal.

I have 12 place settings in 4 assorted colors, as well as various serving pieces. My plates are luncheon size. I have no idea why Gram never had bowls.

Here's a pic of a place setting in random color order:

The luncheon plate showing the rings:

A closeup of the cup to show the shape:

Finally, a picture of a few of the odd pieces in front of Gram's Fiesta mixing bowls. The bowls are the only real Fiesta she had:

Thank you all for being so welcoming. It's fun for me to be able to share my treasures and see everyone else's. I've learned a lot from this discussion, as well as all I've read while lurking around the forum. But I'm still not convinced to put my sterling in the dishwasher! LOL!!!

    Bookmark   December 8, 2010 at 5:32PM
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woodsy_1 Zone 5b Illinois

Fori, I was typing my Harlequin dissertation when you popped in. The tablespoons aren't grilleish, nor are they viande. Just plain old ordinary tablespoons.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2010 at 5:37PM
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Fori is not pleased

Hehe. Thanks for the spoon info.

I love the shapes of those dishes. Cheaper option or not, they're better. Got a little bit of that machine age feel to them. :)

    Bookmark   December 8, 2010 at 6:54PM
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The colors are different than mother had Fiesta and pretty well wore them out...there were lots of chips and she got rid of them for Mason's Pink Vista....for which I am ever grateful! And I chose that when I was married instead of fine china....and have carried my amassing of that to heights she never dreamed of! LOL!!
The talk on Harlequin got me looking at the Hall stuff....Oh my I like that!!

    Bookmark   December 8, 2010 at 7:08PM
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I remember my mother's Fiestaware. I liked her fat water pitcher from the set.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2010 at 10:07PM
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