Pastel salt and pepper shaker ID

peachydevaDecember 5, 2009

Does anyone know the maker and pattern of these salt and pepper shakers? I thought maybe Hazel Atlas, but I can't locate a pattern name. Any help is greatly appreciated.

.

thanks,

Diane

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lindac

Oh my!! They are beautiful! Are they cased? Can you show a picture of the bottom?
Are the tops Sterling? Can you remove the one from the salt? Or is it corroded on?
I don't think they are Hazel Atlas....much older and much finer.
Linda C

    Bookmark   December 5, 2009 at 6:52PM
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peachydeva

Thank you Linda! I can remove the one that is corroded though it is cracked. The top on the blue one would not come clean with silver polish, but it did with copper polish (see photo). There are no markings on the bottom of either. Hope this helps.
Diane

    Bookmark   December 7, 2009 at 9:17AM
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lindac

Is the top...the silver part, marked?
And what I am interested in with the bottom is a pontil mark and your picture it too blurry to see....does it feel sort of sharp?
And can you take a picture of the top of the shaker with out the silver top....does it look like 2 layers of glass? Or is it just opaque glass?
Linda C

    Bookmark   December 7, 2009 at 11:44AM
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peachydeva

I don't see any mark on the silver top, no pontil on the bottom, and it doesn't really look like two layers of glass, just opaque. What do you think? (I don't know what the black streak is on the inside, doesn't rub off.)
Diane

    Bookmark   December 7, 2009 at 12:57PM
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calliope

You will not find a pontil mark on the bottom of a salt shaker. These would have to be blow molded, given the relief. That means any evidence of pontil markings would be under the shaker cap, on the rim....like seen in the above photo the point at which it was snapped off the pontil rod. The dark smudge is called a 'graphite' point and is an iron deposit found on many pontil points when they're blown with a certain process. You can almost date glassware with those smudges at the pontil point by their presence.

I'd date these possibly as old as 1890s, and I'd suggest a good place to start looking for an identity is Consolidated Glass, another Ohio Glassmaking company. I am not familiar with this pattern, but it's typical of the kinds of opaque glassware Consolidated put out at the turn of the century. My g'grandfather's brother was a glass-blower.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2009 at 3:39PM
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peachydeva

Thank you Calliope for your comment! I'll research Consolidated Glass and see what I come up with. It would be nice to know the pattern and see other pieces done in it. Also to know the age.

Thanks!
Diane

    Bookmark   December 7, 2009 at 9:09PM
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lindac

I have a cruet with a polished pontil on the bottom and a small vase with a polished pontil...I am sure there other pieces in the cabinet but those I laid my hands on quickly. They are plainly mold blown.
I disagree, I don't believe these salt and peppers, are mold blown but rather simply molded. Blown molded glass shows evidence of being "expanded". The technique is a gather was placed into a 3 part mold....formed and then mouth blown to expand the design. A punty rod was attached to the bottom and the glass cut at the top....then it was spun with the punty rod and finished...and the punty broken off resulting in a pontil on the bottom. the top where it was cut from the blow pipe may or may not be finished.
Perhaps calliope is referring to another technique?
I need to look in some of my books....but not tonight! LOL!
They are very lovely....and I concur....about 1880.
As for the maker....there were lots of makers of opaque glass during the period....and sometimes we forget that there was some European and Canadian glass that I find very difficult to trace.
Linda c

    Bookmark   December 7, 2009 at 11:16PM
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calliope

I never said it was Consolidated Glass, but I am suggesting it may very well be and that would be a good place to look to see if that design were theirs. You have to start somewhere when searching for a pattern, and they are as good a place as any since it resembles closely some of their other patterns. BTW, all of their salt and pepper shakers of that era were blow molded as were most other manufacturers.

If you look up similar pieces, I think you will find I am correct in that most of them will state they've been blow molded. It really doesn't do much good to throw around a lot of fancy terms about pontils and rods and expansion. There were so many different methods in use over the years and what you have in your china closet doesn't prove anything, really.

This was blow molded, and that's exactly the term I meant to imply. I wouldn't have even suggested it unless I was reasonably sure. I live in art glass country, and examples of turn of the century glassware are so common here, they're found in nearly every household. Even the most causal of auction hounds see it on a regular basis. The graphite mark was a dead giveaway on this one.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2009 at 7:35AM
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peachydeva

Thank you both so much! Would either of you suggest purchasing a book of early American glass patterns or another way to research the pattern? I am new to all of this. I looked at a few of the links on the Glass and Pottery Seller's Association website but it's a jungle out there. Do you have any favorite sites that might be useful?

Thanks, Diane

    Bookmark   December 8, 2009 at 10:02AM
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lindac

There are so very very many patterns in opaque glass....AKA milk glass...that blue is often referred to a "blue milk glass"...not accurate but we know what they mean.
I wouldn't buy a book just to look up these 2 items...
I own all of the Kamm Pitcher books. Minnie Watson Kamm started sometime about 1935 or so collecting pressed glass pitchers....and had so many and many which seemed undocumented...that she published a small book....about 150 pages...with photos and line drawings and info about her pitchers...
And she collected and wrote books....there are 8 books. Very informative but very difficult to find anything!
Then there is Alice Hewlett Metz...who also wrote 2 books on 19th century American glass. Called Early American Pressed Glass and Much More EAPG.
And
Ruth Webb Lea has written several fabulous books on old pressed glass.
See what your library has before you buy...unless you just want to have such a book. But they, lovely as they are not worth a fortune....and these books, new, are very expensive.
Rubylane is a good site as is EAPG ( google it) and the one linked.
I think the link will allow you to send a picture for possible ID.
Good luck....maybe I will curl up with a stack of books tonight and see what I find.
Linda C

Here is a link that might be useful: antique opaque glass

    Bookmark   December 8, 2009 at 6:47PM
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peachydeva

You are a jewel, LindaC.

:) Diane

    Bookmark   December 8, 2009 at 10:03PM
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calliope

I do my research on glass and pottery at the library, or at one of two specialty antique stores here in town and I'll tell you why. Most of the glass books are indexed by pattern. If you don't know the pattern it's a hunt and peck process. Secondarily, some are indexed by manufacturer and then sub-indexed by pattern. That helps somewhat if you have a suspicion as to who made it. The local antique dealers often have specialties where it comes to pottery or glass because it's of the proximity of a lot of these factories int he area. If they don't know they'll lead you to a dealer who does know.

Buying a general book on glassware is great for just getting a handle of it, but it would do you little good trying to get information on who made an item and when or what the pattern name is.......if it's unmarked.

Linda is steering you to pressed glass and I still don't think that set is pressed. The roughness at the lip of shaker doesn't indicate it. So, you could spend a lot of time barking up the wrong tree looking at thousands of pictures. Your first step is to verify how this set was manufactured. A really reputable antiques dealing can clear this up pretty easily. If you peer down into the top of one of your shakers look to see if the interior surface has any relief at all or is perfectly smooth. If you can see any of the pattern inside, then most likely it is blown if it's perfectly smooth,then most likely it is pressed glass. The thinner the glass, the more relief you will see on the inside surface, if it's thick glass it may be almost flat. That's why I'd suggest having someone look at it in person. She may be right, and I may be wrong. But if you do go to sales sights on similar shakers of that age, most of them are described as mold blown.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2009 at 9:46AM
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lindac

It's the absence of a pontil mark on the bottom that makes me believe it's pressed.
The article linked explains how mold blown glass was made.
And the possibility always exists that it was not made in the US. I have a salt spoon that has british registry marks....almost. Just couldn't get them to fit a pattern...and there was that elephant!!
further research showed it was made in India.
Everything you find isn't always identifiable.
Linda C

Here is a link that might be useful: molded glass

    Bookmark   December 9, 2009 at 10:29AM
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peachydeva

I looked inside and it appears pretty smooth and flat to me. When held up to light and looking inside, I can see, but don't really feel, the pattern -- it is not so much in relief, but rather just light coming through different thicknesses of the outside pattern... if that makes any sense. The glass does seem thick to me and weighty. One other thing I just discovered on closer observation, is a seam running down the middle of each one. As though they were two halves joined together... like a mold? I tried photographing the seam, but my camera can't capture the detail.
Diane

    Bookmark   December 10, 2009 at 10:11AM
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lindac

Indicates to me that it's pressed.
Did you look carefully at the silver cap for a mark?
Now comes the endless task of finding the maker...
Start on the east coast with New England Glass Company and the Boston and Sandwich Glass company to glass makers around Trenton New Jersey and New York glass makers and on into the Pittsburgh area and west.
What is so confusing ist he fact that many or the companies consolidated and brought with them their molds and other companies copied the molds and when one company closed, often their molds were sold....and even worse, when one company felt the mold was worn out and made a new version, the old mold was sometimes pilfered by another company and glass was made from it without the detail in the original mold.
But bear in mind it might be English or French or Canadian.
Good Luck....where did you get them? Would that be a clue to their maker?
Linda C

    Bookmark   December 10, 2009 at 11:13AM
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calliope

Does not necessarily mean it's pressed if it has seam marks. Seams marks are common in old blow molded pieces as well. They show where the mold pieces come together. If a cup mold was used, the seam would not continue across the bottom of the piece. And there would not necessarily be any pontils on a piece like that if it were blow molded, if a snap case tool was used instead of a ponty rod.

In actuality, you have a piece with seams along the side. That means it could be pressed, or could be blow molded. You have a piece with no pontil marks. That means it could be pressed or blow molded.

What you do have is a piece with a very porous and rough rim, usually indicative of a blow molded ware. You have a piece similar to many in antique stores today, verified by maker and pattern as blow molded. If it walks like a duck.

    Bookmark   December 11, 2009 at 9:46PM
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peachydeva

I bought them at auction... belonged to a woman of German descent who lived in Kansas and Nebraska. I cannot find anything on the cap. Would the mark, if there were any, be on the inside top or inside sides?
Diane

    Bookmark   December 11, 2009 at 9:54PM
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lindac

What was most indicative that it is pressed was the smooth interior.
If the silver were marked, it might be anywhere....most likely on the outside on the side near the top.

    Bookmark   December 11, 2009 at 11:52PM
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calliope

Those aren't silver.......and the lids are commonly replaced. No, you will not find marks on the lids. You can find smooth interiors to blow molded pieces if they glass is thick. Like I said, the thinner the glass, the more likely the interior will have relief. Go over to Ruby Lane, Peachy and look at their huge assortment of old opaque salt shakers. You will find many very similar to yours. Those that are, of that same era are blow molded and say so. Some show obvious mold seams. All the blown ones show rough rims, similar to yours.

    Bookmark   December 26, 2009 at 7:29PM
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