Am I the only one who really dislikes their Toto toilet?

diytryingFebruary 10, 2011

I bought two Drakes about three years ago when having new flooring put in 2 baths. Thank goodness I had to return the master bath one because it wouldn't fit. Unfortunately, the other went into my kids (teens)' bathroom. It has been clogged from the beginning. It's only flushed correctly a very few times when first installed. I can't get it unclogged enough (even with a snake) to ever flush well more than once or twice. Then it clogs again. I know when I say "teens", you're thinking too much toilet paper (as was I). Now they're both in college and I still can't get it to flush consistently. It just drains but with no force. At first I thought I was just not used to a low water volume toilet, but it just doesn't have any force to the flush. Does anyone have this problem or any suggestions or am I to the.. trying toxic chemicals or calling a plumber point?

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We also had 2 Drakes that were horrible. They would clog at the drop of the hat. When replaced with a cheapie American Standard, the clogging problem went away.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2011 at 2:25PM
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In December we put in a drake 1.28, couldn't get 1.6, it has been plugged 2 times. That is rather disappointing, we replaced 3.5gpf toilets that worked great. We put the other one in a month ago, it has plugged 2 times also, but I do not think the kids hold the flusher down long enough. I love the ADA height and the soft close lid. I do know our old house with 1.6 cheapies clogged constantly, so these are better than that even with only 1.28.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2011 at 3:03PM
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We installed three 1.6 gal Toto Soirees and are very happy with them. We were understandably nervous since our old toilets were original to the house--5 gal toilets. On occasion there are stains or floaty bits (sorry to be gross), but not all that often. I think the double-cyclone flush helps (?). Other than that, they flush without issue every time.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2011 at 6:07PM
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We put in a Drake II last spring and love it so much we put another one in our remodeled hall bathroom. It's a 1.28 gal and they work like champs.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2011 at 8:44PM
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I have a Toto Nexus and it works great.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2011 at 10:52PM
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Two Toto 1.28 GPF toilets, Gwynth and Guinevere Sanigloss. They look nice and Toto's customer service is outstanding.

But even with totally new plumbing, including the run from house to sewer, both clogged regularly.

Sorry for crudeness, but we flush at least once before solids enter the toilet, before paper enters, and at least once to clear. Four or five flushes is not unusual.

This largely eliminates the clogging problem, but we are most certainly not saving water with these toilets.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2011 at 12:49AM
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We have a 1.28 Toto Soiree, and so far, it works great.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2011 at 9:33AM
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diytrying, was there a toilet in that location before? And if so, was the plumbing changed at all since the last toilet? I believe (though I am no plumbing expert) that improper ventilation could cause a toilet to have flushing problems.

I have a Drake 1.28 with a different flapper (to get closer to a 1.6 since 1.6 was unavailable at the time of purchase). I have just placed an order for a Drake 1.6 for another bathroom I am in the process of remodeling. Our current Drake has on a very rare occasion clogged. For the most part, the toilet flushes very well. It does not leave the bowl as clean as I would like in all cases, but clogging has not been an issue.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2011 at 10:07AM
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We have 5 1.6-gallon Toto Drakes. We've had the oldest for 5 over years and the others are almost 3 years old, and we've never ever had a clog with any of them.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2011 at 12:53PM
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We have a Toto too, and it does clog occasionally. I've finally figured out it's the toilet paper brand that is the culprit. Charmin is way too thick. If I stick with Cottonelle or Great Northern we have very few clogs.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2011 at 2:48PM
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I've had a 1.28-gallon Drake for a few years now and it has never clogged. OK, no kids here, but we have people here who are real fans of toilet paper IYKWIM.

The brand of paper makes a huge difference. The popular brands that make a big deal out of being able to support large trucks even when soaked in blue liquid are the worst for sanitation systems because they don't break down fast enough. We use Seventh Generation tissue, which sensitive body parts find pretty much indistinguishable from the big-name stuff and also breaks down readily (in the water). My plumber likes it, too, even though it means he doesn't get to visit as often. :-)

    Bookmark   February 11, 2011 at 9:43PM
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Love my Toto. at least 5 years now. Cant remember which Toto , off hand... Course I love the washlets so use very little TP. also have the bidets..... not Toto brand. Got those bidets on clearance over 20 years ago... just the two of
If I do use paper have a garbage can near
Once you have washets , esp the heated seats. you never go back. Course just in our bath
When occ people see our bidets, they giggle. I tell them they do not know what they are missing. LOL
It all where your priorities lie. Mine lie in function and comfort . Not in new cars and eating in restaurants and not in vacations.. Just chiming in
just my opinion.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2011 at 2:10AM
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We have Toto, Caruso 1.6 I think, in all three bathrooms. The one my son uses most frequently clogs often, but then so did the toilet that was in there previously, so I don't think the toilet is to blame. They don't always flush as cleanly as I would like, but I feel I would probably have that issue with any low-flow toilet.

Totally Confused

    Bookmark   February 15, 2011 at 7:17AM
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I've got the cheapest Toto (I think), a Dalton, and I haven't had any problems whatsoever. I really wanted the Drake, but space demanded a round bowl and I wanted chair height. Maybe I'm lucky I couldn't get a Drake after all?

    Bookmark   February 16, 2011 at 1:03AM
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we had a toto nexus installed this past summer--our only toto. it has the gmax flush i believe, and although the flush is very different than our other toilets(amer stand and gerber power), it flushes well---doesn't seem or sound powerful at all, but does the job so i'm pleased! looks nice.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2011 at 7:23AM
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I have one Toto and 2 Kohler toilets and they all clog. We use the extra soft Charmin which is probably the problem. However, I was expecting the Toto to clog less then the Kohler toilets and it doesn't.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2011 at 4:39PM
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I don't come here that often anymore, but when I do and there's a thread on toilets I always chime in about my love for our American Standard Cadet 3(s). We put one in our very heavily used powder room a number of years ago after I read on this forum about how good they were. We were very happy with it, so 3 years ago we put another one in our master bath, also heavily used, and we've been totally satisfied with it.

Neither of these toilets has ever been stopped up, nor have they ever needed double flushing.

I really really like them.

A few months ago I remodeled (we do all the work DIY) our guest bath and I couldn't find a Cadet 3 at HD or Lowes, but they did have the American Standard Champion 4 so I took a chance on it. It's only been a few months and this toilet isn't used as much as the others, but so far it seems great also.

We just bought a vacation home / future retirement home that's in serious need of bathroom remodels which we'll start next week. Both existing bathrooms and the new one that will be built in a few years will have American Standard toilets. I can't think of any reason to use anything else.

    Bookmark   February 17, 2011 at 4:04AM
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We put in a Drake in our MBath remodel 3 years ago replacing 20 year old Kohler that had never had a problem (except that it was a purplish brown color... so had to go!)
I was upset when after about 2 weeks of use the Drake clogged. NEVER had this happened before to us in our Master. But the strange thing is that it hasn't happened again. Not sure if there was some construction debris that had hung up in there or if we've just been lucky since.
We're about to do new construction and I've spec'd Drakes for all four toilets.... hope I'm not making a mistake.

    Bookmark   February 17, 2011 at 11:46AM
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You aren't alone. Toto Drake I installed has very little flushing power. American Standard Champion? toilet I put in my 1/2 bath has far superior performance - although the fit & finish of the Toto seems a little better.

    Bookmark   March 17, 2011 at 7:16PM
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We've had a Drake in our kids' bathroom for the past two years, and an Ultramax in the powder for about five years. Both seem great to us--three out of four members of the family have never clogged either one. (have to say my 14 yr old manages to clog them occasionally--I've concluded she needs to eat more don't want to know the details) Both seem to flush with remarkable vigor. Have you had a plumber look at yours? Maybe something's not working quite right.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2011 at 10:00PM
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Always mystified why Toto is such a favorite of this forum. Thank God they didn't make anything that fit in my vintage bathroom reno so I went for a St Thomas Creations Art Deco reproduction low-flo toilet. No clogs. No issues. No skid marks. Rapid flush, rapid fillup. We use plenty of Charmin without thinking about it, and for some reason it never occurred to us to store toilet paper and feces in a garbage pail to avoid putting it in the toilet. Um, yuck.

Groupthink happens everywhere.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2011 at 9:01PM
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We replaced all three of our very old 5-gallon toilets last year with three identical Toto Drake ADA 1.28 gallon toilets. We've had zero problems. These very efficient Toto units have a surprisingly strong flush, and we love the extra height and soft-close lid.

Here is a link that might be useful: Master bathroom renovation underway...

    Bookmark   March 20, 2011 at 9:17PM
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I bought 2 Toto Guinevere toilets a year ago. (The plumber too recommended toto.) One works fine - the other in our master bathroom makes a dripping sound much of the time especially after any use (and even you don't flush). Very very annoying. I've called and called toto and they sent me replacement parts but i have to get a plumber to basically reinstall the toilet. I have a beautiful kohler in the powder room and a nice one in the basement. No problems. From now on I will stick with kohler.

    Bookmark   April 4, 2011 at 9:01AM
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I have a Toto Mercer -- it only clogged once but that was so bad that now I find myself heading to the old 6 gallon American Standard (thank heavens we decided to keep the old toilet when we did the powder room) if I think it might be (not to put too fine a point on it) a really big dump. But 95% of the time the Toto Mercer is fine.

    Bookmark   April 4, 2011 at 5:44PM
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sophie123--Our Soiree's dripped, too. They are 1.6 gal toilets--shipped prior to Toto designing the new Unifit. Toto sent 3 new Unifits, and also sent a check to offset the plumber's charge to uninstall/reinstall the Unifits into two of the Soiree's (the third Soiree hadn't been installed yet). I think Toto pd $100 for the first toilet, and $75 for each add'l toilet.

The new Unifits eliminated the dripping noise, which was the only negative thing about our Soirees. I think it will help your Guinevere's as well.

    Bookmark   April 4, 2011 at 11:34PM
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No! I bought Toto because of all the raves on this forum. Because of code issues in my small bathroom I had to get a round toilet and have a five year old Dalton.. Doesn't really clog much but must be flushed twice or more and continually runs. Count me never again, and I'm saving my pennies to replace it.

    Bookmark   April 5, 2011 at 8:27PM
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I've had a Toto Drake 5 days and am very unhappy with it...The bowl does not get clean when solid waste is flushed; in fact, at times the force of the water from the front of the bowl toward the waste matter is so strong it pushes the waste up against the back of the bowl above the water level and leaves marks that I have to clean after each use. The flush itself is very forceful and requires only one flush, but the "filth" left on the interior of the bowl makes me sick that I've purchased such an awful toilet.

    Bookmark   May 29, 2011 at 7:11PM
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I have replaced all the toilets with Toto's over the last 10 years, both one and two piece. Odd the 5 toilets, only the one's my son used became clogged. We solved the problem by getting the thinner TP and that seems to have solved the problem. It has never happened to me or my husband soI assume it was caused by the paper and not the toilet.

    Bookmark   May 30, 2011 at 7:30PM
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I'm hoping I'm not going to be unhappy with my 3 new toilets, Toto Ultramax IIs

I had a toto Ultramax in my last house. It did clog when I first installed it, we changed TP brands and it didn't clog since. Charmin was the culpret.

Since this is my first experience with the 1.6 I assumed this was not uncommon.

Either or, it sounds like there is no universal toilet where everyone is 100% happy.

    Bookmark   May 31, 2011 at 10:34AM
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Fori is not pleased

I don't know what mine is. Came with the house. Flushes very nicely, although it screams like a sick puppy while refilling. I'm sure that's a minor maintenance issue. It has a Washlet and even if I remove that the toilet is too darn tall. Can I Freecycle a toilet? Cuz otherwise this thing is going to the dumpster. I'm not even that short.

ADA is not all good. When I'm too old and feeble to climb onto an extra tall potty, everything will be ADA and I'll have to find vintage toilets.

    Bookmark   May 31, 2011 at 12:13PM
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We had 3 Toto Ulitmate 1.6gal in our last home and loved them - clogged one time in 3+ years. Original Kohler 3gal clogged constantly. We also had a offset toilet flange in one bathroom that caused headaches until we installed the Toto's

Current house has 2 piece Kohler and they clog regularly.

We are specifying fixtures for our new house right now and are leaning towards a Drake II for the master and Aquia II for the other 3 bathrooms...Hope they work as well as the Ultimate's did!

    Bookmark   May 31, 2011 at 12:24PM
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I bought the American Standard Champion 4 about 3 years ago (it's top rated in Consumer Reports). It has NEVER clogged. A few months ago I bought a second one for another bathroom. Heavily used by guests and kids. It would be my first choice again.

    Bookmark   May 31, 2011 at 3:25PM
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When you all say Toto Drake, are you not talking about the Drake II? Not sure what the difference is, but I assume Drake II is better than just the Drake. We are in the process of picking out toilets (yea, fun). I was all set on Toto, but now am reconsidering.

    Bookmark   May 31, 2011 at 5:16PM
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Jean Bo

Did you call Toto? I would place a call to them see what they have to say.

    Bookmark   May 31, 2011 at 6:02PM
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I bought three Toto Supreme 1.6 toilets five years ago and they are great, no clogging problems at all. I use Costco TP, if that helps!

    Bookmark   June 3, 2011 at 3:00PM
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The Canadian Waste and Wastewater Association is the definitive independent toilet testing group. Their ratings show that price isn't the determinant of flushing efficiency. Some of the TOTO models are barely mid-pack; others are at the top.

Clients on a recent build chose all TOTO, all the same. Sure made my job easy.

Here is a link that might be useful: Toilet Testing

    Bookmark   June 4, 2011 at 10:47PM
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worthy writes: "The Canadian Waste and Wastewater Association is the definitive independent toilet testing group. Their ratings show that price isn't the determinant of flushing efficiency. Some of the TOTO models are barely mid-pack; others are at the top."

The MAP test (originally developed in California; cited in Canada) -- like any other one-dimensional test -- has severe deficiencies. Higher MAP numbers do not, repeat NOT -- mean "better performance." Specifically, in a real life home toilet, a system that will flush 1000 gm of standard plastic-film wrapped soybean paste may be inferior -- from a user's standpoint -- to a system that flushes "only" 500 gm of standard plastic-film wrapped soybean paste.

The standard film-contained tubes of soybean paste may be -- probably are -- the best simulation of TYPICAL human waste yet developed. But human waste stubbornly refuses to be typified. Human waste products do not adhere to standard sizes; they do not conform to standard densities or consistencies. And if a "single use" of a toilet generates 400 gm of waste, a MAP 500 gm rated toilet will flush the waste every bit as well as a MAP 1,000 gm rated toilet.

Moreover, many homeowners want a toilet that will not leave streaks on the bowl; that is, a flushing system that not only sends the big stuff down the drain but also has enough water left during the flush cycle but after the main event to swish off the remainder of the waste from the inside of the bowl. The MAP test does not test that.

In short, the MAP test for toilets, welcome as it is as an objective measure of one aspect of a toilet's flushing performance, is a little like rating an automobile according to how fast it can complete a lap at Talladega: interesting, but not definitive.

    Bookmark   June 4, 2011 at 11:41PM
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The higher end Toto toilets are nice but the pitfall is that you can only use Toto parts for repair... Any clogging issues requires a definate Gerber Avalanche!!! Best toilet around town

Todd Stull
Enola, PA

    Bookmark   June 5, 2011 at 4:48PM
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Moreover, many homeowners want a toilet that will not leave streaks on the bowl

That's clearly a problem with some toilets, so that's why I skim through the reviews here and elsewhere.

But I write off any toilet that doesn't meet the 1,000 gram per flush figure. Not that even that capacity would handle the sorts of things that my plumber friend used to find --and regale me with till I blanched.

Yes, it is a joint project with CWWA as the lead agency.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2011 at 11:11PM
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worthy: "I write off any toilet that doesn't meet the 1,000 gram per flush figure."

That is 2.2 pounds per dump. Have you ever seen such a movement? Neither have I.

But when I was in college, an over-achiever in the building where I lived called everyone in to measure and to document a single 14-inch "piece" that -- remarkably -- did not break on its way to the bottom of the bowl. The MAP test would not measure the ability of any flushing system to deal with such a phenomenon.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2011 at 12:08AM
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It looks like Charmin had a great ad campaign! Their charming slogan got drummed into so many people's heads, that many people seem to consider Charmin to be the iconic toilet paper brand ... Even though it's actually worse!
I used to buy Charmin. No particular reason, just that I was familiar with it from the ads and they stuck in my head and I thought vaguely "Nice TP".
My old 5-gal toilet would get clogged a lot.
Then I started buying thin single-ply TP, sold as single rolls. For environmental reasons. This TP is packaged in paper and I wanted to avoid all the plastic waste from the Charmin.
End of clogging, and the single-ply worked just as well.
I got a Toto Drake recently. I'm happy with it, except that particles end up on the side, and they don't flush off. I just reach in there with a wad of TP and wipe them off.
I like that it finishes refilling in a few seconds. With the 5-gal toilet I had to hear the water flowing for a few minutes each flush.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2011 at 11:28AM
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I posted about my Guinevere toilet making dripping sound. I finally had the new unifit part installed and it worked! My plumber was doubtful it would so i wasn't expecting much. Now i'm asking that toto reimburse me for the expense (they said they would consider it). Thanks for tip!

    Bookmark   June 27, 2011 at 10:40AM
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We have had a Toto Ultramax since 2003 and it's a great toilet. Has needed one part replacement (free from Toto, just snapped in by my not-so-handy DH) early on, nothing since.

Just replaced the 1989 Kohler Wellworth Lite with a Toto Aquia. Was worried about the dual .5/1.6g flushing, but it works like a champ. Only minor problems with dirty bowl, actually less than the Ultramax due to the Aquia's design.

We're very happy with both Totos. Both our drains were an optimal design; e.g., toilet and sink graywater comes in to help move the blackwater out to the sewer. A plumber told us some houses have plumbing connections that don't work effectively with low-flush toilets. It's important to have that greater volume of graywater coming in at the right place for an effective sewer system.

Not only is a huge amount of clean fresh water wasted in this country from high-flush toilets, but the production of extra soft, extra white, extra thick toilet paper and paper towels is environmentally harmful. All of us need to revise our thinking about some things. It's already been mentioned in some forward-thinking articles that the next big commodity war is going to be over water, because there simply isn't enough of it to go around as more countries industrialize.

    Bookmark   June 27, 2011 at 12:07PM
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sophie123--they sent us a check (didn't pay plumber's total bill, but it helped!).

Isn't it funny how a tiny triangular piece of plastic could solve the dripping problem?! Glad it helped you, too!

    Bookmark   June 27, 2011 at 10:09PM
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Sophie here again. I did get a check for the cost of the plumber! covered the whole amount ($125). Even after that i still had the toilet running occassionally so called again and they sent me yet another part which i installed and now it seems perfect. Very quiet now.

    Bookmark   August 6, 2011 at 11:35AM
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I have been trying to decide on toilets and this thread has really thrown me for a loop. We have had Kohler power-assist toilets for the past 17 years in two of three baths; the other bath had a Kohler Portrait without power assist. The power-assist toilets *never* clog, but they are so loud we can't flush them in the middle of the night without waking up the household. (Our children, when young, would flush-and-run, because the loud toilets scared them!) The Portrait was in a powder room, and even with only occasional use it clogs continually and never takes down even toilet paper with one flush. (And we use a fast-disintegrating toilet paper, BTW, not Charmin.)

Because of the noise, I had planned to go with Toto toilets this time around. My choice was the Ultramax II or the Soiree, and it would have Sanagloss finish and Double Cyclone flushing. Unfortunately, not everyone who disliked the Toto toilets mentioned their model and feature set, so I'm not sure if this combination will give me adequate flushing action. Can anyone give me an experience-based opinion? I'm nervous about buying two of them since they are pretty high priced. I love the idea of the Sanagloss finish, since that has been a problem with all my Kohlers. Would appreciate advice.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2012 at 12:45AM
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I do not like my Toto toilet. It makes awful "groaning" noises when it's not in use and the dripping water runs on and off. DH is going to replace something inside the tank (can't remember what) and hopefully that will fix it.

I insisted on a Toto instead of a less expensive toilet and now wish that I hadn't.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2012 at 1:13AM
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I bought 1 Toto Drake II (to test out, before I bought a second one). I will buy another one when it is time to remodel the other bath. The ultramax II is, I think, the drake II except in a one piece.

Mine: Drake II, double cyclone, sanagloss.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2012 at 6:39PM
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Both our expensive Guinevere Totos clog, and DH and DD have managed to have overflow disasters. We do not use Charmin, and have adequate sewer lines, etc.

The handles on both toilets broke at about the same place and at about the same time, and it took multiple written and telephone attempts to get anyone from Toto customer service to reply. After months of aggravation, we were finally told of a defect in the mechanism of that model and were sent replacement parts. For the price of these things we felt like a recall notice should have gone out to all owners of this model rather than the owners having to dig the information from the company.

While I prefer the look and sitting comfort of the Toto, we will be replacing them with the American Standard Champion 4. We have one in our master and nothing seems to clog it.

Toto is a tremendous disappointment in function and customer service. We cannot recommend them at all. Our Totos will be going to the curb soon. If you are in Lake Norman, NC area, contact me if you want them!

    Bookmark   May 11, 2012 at 9:12AM
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We remodeled a bath last year and put in an American Standard (Cadet 3- I think). We're extremely happy with it.

We are currently remodeling another bath, and I've decided to go with a concealed trap way, skirted version. I chose the American Standard Tropic... I could not find a single review for it, so I'm a little nervous about the decision. But figured since we're happy with the American Standard we have, it should be alright.

It hasn't been installed yet, so if anyone reads this thread and has some feedback, I'd appreciate it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Our Bath Renovation

    Bookmark   May 11, 2012 at 1:20PM
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TOTOs need direct venting. Working on a 1.6 unibody, I found a single vent through the roof in an adjacent toilet room, separate from the TOTO. The TOTO unit would not flush because it did not get the proper air flow. The water fills the bowl and stays there when the flush lever is activated. When I bailed the water from the bowl and got near the bottom, bubbles started flowing back into the bowl. Make sure you properly vent the TOTO or it will not work properly or not at all. An expensive toilet needing an expensive venting fix.

When called to "unclog" the TOTO, I firstly, plunged it, then removed the toilet to check for any obstructions. I poured 5 gals. of water down the outlet to make sure no clogs. I placed the TOTO outside on the driveway, then filled the bowl with water - it flushed properly. I filled the tank and activated the handle and it flushed properly. When I reinstalled it, it would not flush - the water stayed in the bowl. I decided to run a snake through the bowl hole and siphon but i found no obstructions. So, my conclusion is the toilet needs a vent connected to its own outlet. Since the only vent is 10 feet away, the TOTO does not have adequate air flow for the flush function.

This post was edited by jerry_murray on Tue, Dec 10, 13 at 2:29

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 9:55PM
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I'm sorry, but we had 4 Toto Ultramax toilets, they all worked just fine, and none of them had any special venting. They were installed to replace older toilets.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 10:18PM
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jerry_murray 20f/Puget Sound:
"TOTOs need direct venting."

No, they do not.

Here is a link that might be useful: Toto detailed installation instructions

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 5:55AM
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We have two Toto Ultramax II toilets, in the hall bath and guest bath. We like the height. They are easy to keep clean (this is a major criteria for me when selecting any fixture), look nice and flush well with small amount of water.

We don't use special toilet paper (don't even know we should). We never have had any problem since the first one installed in April this year. We purchased third one to be installed in the master bathroom that is being remodeled. Our GC who has done hundred bathroom remodels also said it is a good choice.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 7:33AM
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I'm very unhappy with my Toto Guinevere, but not because of the flush, which is outstanding. You have to understand that the toilet is not the sole factor that determines flush performance. The plumbing and vent arrangement has a lot to do with it. Some disagree, but as an engineer it's clear that a drain/vent system that enhances the siphoning action will result in a better flush. Some toilets are more sensitive to this than others. I had abysmal performance with the previous toilet (Kohler) but when I re-did the bathroom I changed the drain/venting scheme. I am convinced it helped.

The problem I have with Toto is that the flapper design is terrible; it gets sucked into the opening and leaks. You can screw around with it to make it work, but why should you have to on a toilet at that price?

My other complaint is the "sanagloss". Everything sticks to it. With 1.28 gallon toilets, the water is very shallow; you get nastiness both above and below the water line. With my Toto you end up brushing the toilet maybe 3 times out of 5. I recommend staying away from sanagloss, and also from 1.28 gallon toilets in general. They look more or less the same but the bowl is very, very shallow... there just isn't enough water in the bowl with a 1.28. Just another stupid government regulation.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2014 at 12:53PM
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I replaced my 1980s American Standard elongated bowl with a Drake II Comfort height about 3 years ago. Several years prior I had a plumber tell me to "never replace" my AS. Bad knees caused me to have to use a booster seat but because of the appearance (and potential water savings) I decided to bite the bullet and use an area plumbing shop's "special" on the Drake installation.

I have no problems with clogging but the "comfort" height is only 1 1/2" higher and NOT ADA, therefore not as "comfortable" as the extension seat, so I have gained nothing if I eventually have to go back to an add-on seat. Also, within weeks, I realized that the commonplace flush handle on the FRONT of my AS was located around on the SIDE of the Toto. It was a stretch to reach since the wall butted up close to the unit and I can only stand to the right side of the unit. I asked about a right-handle flush tank which the plumbing company replaced at no charge, but these are things the consumer would not have thought about and I do think the installer should have mentioned.

Also I do not like either seeing, or having to clean, the exterior base with the visible trap line but I think all bases are made that way now. My old AS was a smooth enclosure base. The porcelain must also be thinner because it sounds like I'm tinkling in a well which I know can be heard if I have company. And after only 3 years, there is an intermittent "hissing" leak which I think is the flapper not sealing.

Neighbors in my WW2 subdivision have begun having sewer line collapses at a considerable repair expense of $7,000. I have tried to prolong the inevitable (which I was told already had evasive roots in it) by also not flushing "wet use" paper. I continued the "if it's yellow" adage but within less than a year, I had a buildup of minerals in the trap that can neither be scrubbed off, but also, now seem to continue to attract more buildup, even though I now regularly flush even "yellow". So, really not saving water.

In order to clean the stains, I have shut off the water valve overnight on two occasions and poured in vinegar the first time and tried Cola the second. Both times I bailed the remaining water out of the bowl with a measuring cup until there was virtually no water remaining in the trap. Yet in the morning, even with the empty tank and trap, water had siphoned from somewhere back into the bowl so my stains are still there. Duragloss finish? Yeah, sure.

Sorry this is so long, but if plumbers didn't charge so much, I'd frequent the junk yards till I found another old American Standard. Gov't in our "business"....literally!

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 6:29AM
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andy_m: "My other complaint is the "sanagloss". Everything sticks to it. With 1.28 gallon toilets, the water is very shallow; you get nastiness both above and below the water line. With my Toto you end up brushing the toilet maybe 3 times out of 5. I recommend staying away from sanagloss, and also from 1.28 gallon toilets in general. They look more or less the same but the bowl is very, very shallow... there just isn't enough water in the bowl with a 1.28. Just another stupid government regulation."

Toilet manufacturers spend a lot of time on the "water spot" and depth issues in the design process. Lumping the characteristics of all toilets, or even of all 1.28 gpf toilets, together proceeds on the assumption that all of those designers made the same choices, which, quite apparently, they did not. We have never have owned a Guinevere, so I cannot speak to your problem, but since we replaced a 3.5 gpf toilet with a 1.28 gpf Toto Vespin II three years ago, we have not noticed any increase of "failed to submerge" issues, and the new toilet requires no more frequent cleaning than the older one did, and the shape of the inside of the bowl is actually easier to clean than the shape of the old toilet.

As for the "[j]ust another stupid regulation" comment and milligi's "Gov't in our 'business'....literally" comment, please do not allow your politics to interfere with your powers of reason. When you have drawn the balance in your bank account down to zero and the bank no longer will honor your checks, it is not the bank's regulations that stop you from buying a new trinket. All over the world, the increasing population of humans either has caused or in the foreseeable future will cause water shortages, and very likely rationing of the remaining water resources. The 1.28 gpf toilet design model is a response to a real physical scarcity issue.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2014 at 10:19PM
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Thank you Herring_maven. I love not flushing gallons and gallons of water down the drain. I love using my LED lights too. We humans have been very short sighted.

I also really like my Toto toilets. Especially my Promenade. I find it easy to clean. The exposed skirting is more fussy to clean, but all my toilets have been that way through the years. I have had no problems with my Promenade. I also have the Maris. It is a skirted design. It is way different in its water spot and how it's bowl is shaped. I haven't used it much yet, but I don't think I care for the shape of the inside structure. I love the looks of the overall toilet though, and it flushes well with a cyclone action. The Maris is more prone to soiling than the Promenade because of the small water spot. I have not had problems with clogging in either toilet.

    Bookmark   March 7, 2014 at 12:17AM
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Babka NorCal 9b

I have two Totos, 1.28, one piece. ADA compliant. Toto makes so many different designs you cannot generalize. If you have elongated seats, you need to sit farther back to hit the sweet spot. None are going to flush as quiet and as thoroughtly as those "oldies but goodie" toilets that used lots and lots of water. If you live in CA like me, this is just how it has to be now, and my water bill shows it.


    Bookmark   March 7, 2014 at 1:17AM
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I had hoped to have some helpful input as to the 5 or so difficulties I have experienced with my Toto--"bulk" and "general" bowl cleaning not among them.

*visible trap line configuration
*thinner wall or bowl design result: excessive noise transmission
*flapper failure at only 3 years
*buildup of minerals in trap
*siphoning into dry trap w/ water shut off

I am disappointed that andy_m chose to zero in on the last sentence--five words--of my post when I was merely trying to introduce a little humor. Most certainly govt regulations have effected the current design standards, inside and out. Restating my preference, once again (before the $400 strain on my budget) for my old, perfectly functioning, American Standard even with the unsightly appearance of my "booster" seat.

    Bookmark   March 14, 2014 at 9:23AM
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milligi 10: "I am disappointed that andy_m chose to zero in on the last sentence--five words--of my post when I was merely trying to introduce a little humor."

According to our browser's text search function, the post containing the sentence above was the very first post in this thread that was authored by milligi 10. Do you refer to a post in another thread?

    Bookmark   March 14, 2014 at 11:00PM
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I need some help with my toilet choices for my new house. 6 years ago I redid 2 baths in my current house and after a lot of research choose to go with the Cadet 2 in the master, and Kohler Archer (for looks) in the powder room. I'm not happy with either choice. Neither toilet plugs often (that's not the problem) but these are the issues I found:

The Cadet 2 just seems like a weak flush (many times requiring 2 flushes. Doesn't 'feel' powerful. However, haven't had running, handle, or other flapper issues, so good in that regard.

The Kohler Archer is gorgeous. Love the way it LOOKS. Hate the reliability. With toilets in this home since the 1980s requiring ZERO maintenance, I've had to replace several parts on this toilet in 5 years. Which is totally annoying.

-The inside part of the handle is made of plastic, wore out after 2 years and had to replaced (with another plastic handle at a cost of $20).

-The handle is made to look vintage (love the looks) so requires you to pull up to flush instead of down, if you don't do it correctly, the toilet runs and runs because the flapper doesn't close.

-The rubber part of the flushing mechanism (not a normal flapper from my 1980s toilets, but some weird looking tower thing that has since been changed, I believe) has worn out TWICE, thus the toilet runs constantly until I replace that. Also at my cost of like $20 for rubber washer.

-Both the Cadet 3 and Kohler Archer do a bad job of washing the bowl- leaving sticky bits often. This may be just the nature of the beast with lowflow, so I'm not super hung up on this (but would love a toilet that minimized this).

Anyhow, to bring this back to the original question, in my new house I was going to get the Toto Drake because this site speaks so highly of it. But is this actually the case? Are they RELIABLE? I don't want to have to fix my new toilet after a few years. I want it to work, I want it to flush the first time, and I'd like it to be fairly clean. I will give on the looks this time. I'd love it if it used parts that have been proven to work (unlike my Archer flushing mechanism which must have been the new thing, and now they changed it). Are there toilets that still use the old school flapper and big balloon? Do those work on low flow? Do the Drakes use the same parts they've always used? What's the difference between the Drake and Drake 2?

    Bookmark   August 24, 2014 at 10:48AM
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Drake and Drake 2 difference.

I believe the difference is in the flushing system. Regular Drake is G- max flushing and Drake II is Double Cyclone flush. Supposedly a double cyclone flush gives a better bowl and rim wash with water swinging around in the bowl. In the regular Drake the water rinses straight down. In most other ways they are the same.

G-Max Flushing System Computer Designed, Fully Glazed Trapway Elongated Seat Chrome Trip Lever Other tanks available to accommodate bolt down lid and insulated tank requirements ADA Compliant 12"

Drake II
SanaGloss Double Cyclone Flushing System Computer Designed, Fully Glazed Trapway Elongated Bowl Chrome Trip Lever Universal Height ADA Compliant 12" Rough-In -

    Bookmark   August 24, 2014 at 12:10PM
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We've had the Toto Promenade for about a month now (1.6 gal). I'm liking it, and it has a vintage look too as a plus for those of us who want that type of look.

    Bookmark   August 25, 2014 at 7:50PM
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TOTO= CST744S#12
I have had these toilets in 2 homes and loved them. We now have Kohlor Wellingtons and HATE them. We have lived here 3 months. The toilets are 2 years old. We have constant clogs and leaks. I have had the plumber out 3 times. 3 different plumbers have told me the tower design is just poor. I am online replacing 6 toilets with the Totos right now. I suggest National Builder Supply for your best price.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2014 at 7:18PM
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Babka NorCal 9b

Oh boy. I hope the next person who has a problem with a Toto will begin a new thread. This one began in 2011 and a lot has changed in those intervening years. I have two one piece Totos and am very pleased with them. Let's compare apples to apples. 1.6 to a 1.6gal, or a 1.28 to a 1.28 gal. And those flush handles come in front or side handles, or on top (buttons). Pick what works for you. Ask your plumber which ones he has the most calls on and avoid those.



    Bookmark   November 24, 2014 at 9:04PM
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