Culinarian simmer service call

mangiamoFebruary 27, 2012

Hello everyone

The technician came out today and adjusted the flow to the burners as best he could. He used the screw driver that I purchased based on the recommendation of a GW member. He was unable to have the simmer on the dial line up properly so my lowest simmer without clicking is level two on the dial. This is just a cosmetic thing and has no bearing on the functioning of the simmer. He said that it would require removing the front panel which he is prepared to do at a different call back if I would like him to.

I will use the burners on simmer and post feedback as soon as I have tested them with tomato sauce and the cast iron griddles.

Thanks for your support and guidance. The technician is going to browse the forum this evening. He was very interested in how I knew so much about the problem and its potential fixes.

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billy_g

He can adjust this. Turn the valve stem two clicks with the wrench and then re-adjust the simmer. Then it will be spot on.

Billy

    Bookmark   February 27, 2012 at 11:36PM
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breezygirl

Glad to see you reported back! I'll be curious to see if you like the new simmer.

On Friday I fiddled with adjusting one of my burners using a screw driver just barely long enough to fit. I ended with the same result as you. Clicking on the lowest setting, but no click just up from that. I got frustrated as the driver wasn't quite long enough for me to really do well without chewing up the handle, but wanted to try as my red beans and ham hock (I know I was making Monday beans on a Friday...so what? :)) were boiling too rapidly on the lowest simmer.

DH bought a longer screwdriver and will try some adjustments this week. I'll have him try Billy's stem adjustment also.

Still, even as low as I could get the knob turned to avoid the clicking after my adjustment, my beans still boiled too rapidly and I kept having to add water. I NEVER had such issues with my crappy old coil. Not that I want to go back to that underpowered pos, but still.....

    Bookmark   February 28, 2012 at 4:22AM
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aliris19

Ah ... interesting that there are still problems reported with the simmer of the CC. I didn't really want to look back here; I knew I would find it. I've had my CC going for a goodly while now, technicians from the mother ship have even swooped in for a rescue but still none is really imminent: the simmer doesn't work well. DH even did a little home project weaving old scraps of copper wire into a large copper mesh mat hoping to spread the heat out (entirely unprompted. I hadn't even complained to him about any of the problem; I was too embarrassed to, frankly). The mat actually works pretty well, but not great. And of course I can hear the shrill cry from sundry here that having spent this much on this beast, harnessing such an ungainly and only barely useful crutch as a scrap-wire pad is absurd.

sigh.

But when last I tackled this simmer problem on this GW forum I heard some defensiveness about user-error and the like; I didn't want to deal. I was told that a hollandaise could be kept for several hours on this burner, but when I turned my back for just 10 minutes, it was gone. Not that I make hollandaise all that often; I did it mostly to test out this simmer. However, I do want to simmer soups all the time but this Capital Culinarian just does a lousy job of it. I have to stack up a couple of those heavy grates if I want to be sure to get a reasonable simmer. I have ruined one le creuset pan via "simmering".

So have these complaints been going on unabated here on this forum for months now? I haven't looked back; haven't had the fortitude....

Why won't they just retrofit a smaller port or whatever it's called, to a burner or two? This situation is really stupid. I haven't yet had the courage to admit that I'm sorry I bought this machine. But I haven't recommended it to anyone either. Probably 30% of my cooking time is spent simmering and it's been a fight the whole time. Not fun.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2012 at 5:51AM
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mangiamo

Thank you Billy. I did suggest this to him but he was insistent that it could not be done without taking the front panel off and reworking the knobs or some other internal component. I am so hesitant to have someone take apart my almost brand new shiny machine and start to put bits and pieces and screws all over my kitchen and then try to put them all back in the same place. I try not to be so skeptical but this should have been an easier fix than taking apart a whole range.

Breezy and Aliris, I am sure hoping there is a way for cc owners to get a simmer we are happy with be it with an internal adjustment or external simmer plate especially designed for us!

Will let you know how the simmer goes!

    Bookmark   February 28, 2012 at 6:43AM
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mangiamo

Billy, if we get the simmer to line up properly does the Off marker still also line up properly?

Also, may I ask, if we adjust the flow to allow for a lower simmer, does it also affect the flow at the upper end so we are no longer getting 22,000 BTU?

Thanks

    Bookmark   February 28, 2012 at 7:06AM
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lannie59

We are also considering a 36" cc range, but this simmer issue seems be an unresolved issue. Everyone needs the capability
of being able to simmer on any range or range-top. If this issue cannot be fixed why would anyone purchase a cc range and not be happy with it 100%. I have looked at other ranges and thought cc was the best, but know I will look again as simmering is very important to us. Not looking for a fix 6 months from now, but rather a range that works right out of the box.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2012 at 7:35AM
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tyguy

Lannie: have you looked at a Bluestar? You get the same high performance with the benefit of an ultra low simmer.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2012 at 8:07AM
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lannie59

We have been considering both CC and BS. Each has benefits and drawbacks. BS looks a little more industrial and the ignitors
are a little more exposed than I like. The CC is deeper and will protrude more and the simmering is an issue. Both are well built ranges and will be more than we actually need. The burners on the BS may work better for us, but who knows. I have read pros and cons on each and it comes down to a personal choice. Full extension oven racks are a plus from BS. BS owners love their ranges and CC owners love theirs.
It is like autos. Some like BMW's and some prefer Audi's. Which is best? If simmering issue can get a final fix then CC would probably be 1st choice. If not then BS would be a more rounded range for everyday use. Just my thoughts and would like others owner inputs.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2012 at 9:00AM
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fouramblues

So I've been drooling over the CC for a while, but it's out of my budget. Maybe a good thing, given the simmer problem! My next choice is the Precision. Anyone know if the Precision has a simmer problem also? Just googled it on gardenweb and didn't see any issues, but thought I should check...

    Bookmark   February 28, 2012 at 9:42AM
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tyguy

Fouramblues: I do not think the simmer is an issue on the precision line but you of course are making big sacrifices on the high end. The simmer issues on the culinarian stem from a very powerful burner trying to be everything which it can not unless it was somehow engineered with some sort of dual stacked technology. But if the cc is out of your range the precision is a pretty good unit. You could also consider a BS RCS? They are probably about the same as a precision. You will have excellent simmer on all burners on an rcs.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2012 at 3:29PM
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mangiamo

Hi everyone

I am trying to simmer with my new adjusted burners. Every time I try to get to the lowest point (level two) I get quite a loud whoosh sound and the burner goes out. I have a large All Clad pot on the burner.

Is the burner setting too low to sustain a flame or is the pot not allowing enough air? Do I need another service call?

I may be silly but I feel the more intervention I allow on this range the worse it will get. I guess I am still recovering from the (still ongoing) renovation. The devil you know.... I am now feeling I should have just left the burners at the setting they came from the factory.

Please advise. I really am not trying to cause angst in potential buyers as I am still reasonably happy with the range (still would have liked a quieter internal fan that cooled and shut off quicker). The service tech hinted that the expectations are not realistic to have such a powerful burner to perform at such a low simmer. (The fan is a function of the heat being produced with the way I use the oven).

Thank you everyone.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2012 at 5:32PM
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fouramblues

mangiamo, I have no experience with the CC so can't advise, but I'm sorry you're having such trouble with the simmer. (Sorry also for hijacking back there!)

tyguy, thanks for the info; I'll look into the BS more, though the CP is my front-runner for a variety of reasons.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2012 at 8:06PM
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jscout

I think you need the service tech to come back. The calibration needs to be done right. The knob needs to be able to sit at the simmer markings and the simmer should be adjusted. The fact that he needed to use your screw driver says something. It sounds like the air shutter needs to be adjusted too. Take a look at the Eurostoves website. I believe Trevor has videos of how to do the adjustments.

I posted videos of simmering on my range in the thread linked below. If you go to that thread and search for my ID you should be able to see the post with the three videos. Take a look at those and see how your simmer compares.

Here is a link that might be useful: Simmering

    Bookmark   February 28, 2012 at 8:42PM
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trevorlawson

Mangiamo... I you give me a call you an I can fix your issues with the simmer burner over the phone.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2012 at 8:57PM
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Shareher

I have to admit that ths post is making me very nervous. I just ordered a CC range but am having some buyers remorse before I've even used it. I dont want to struggle with basic cooking functions.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2012 at 8:58PM
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tyguy

>We have been considering both CC and BS. Each has benefits and drawbacks.

That 110% true. Both great ranges. I am just very happy that it seems as tho the small crowd that used to self proclaim that the cc was "the best" range on the market and bs "the second best" has stopped. For some people neither one is. For me, bs is by far, but I would also welcome a cc or wolf into my home if the bs didn't exist.

Shareher: I wouldn't sweat it too much, most people love their cc's, and I am sure you will too.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2012 at 9:29PM
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mangiamo

Hi Trevor - Thank you I will call you. I trust I can get your number from the Website.

Shareher - please I don't want you to feel that you have made a mistake. I am happy with the range, just frustrated because i am near the end of a longer than anticipated reno where enough things went wrong to make me a bit raw to small nuisances. Generally water is the culprit (several leaks and one flood and several times a good cry). This is an intense fire issue.... I need to have someone interpret the ying yang here. My feng shui must be not right.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2012 at 9:54PM
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billy_g

Mangiamo,

For some reason it sounds like a lot of the technicians are not well-trained to make adjustments of the Capital Culinarian burners. It shouldn't be that difficult. Capital needs to do a better job with communication and training.

I wonder if Capital really does a careful job of adjusting the burners before they leave the factory? If somehow the adjustments are sensitive to gas pressure then Capital needs to make a big deal about advertising the gas pressure that its equipment should use instead of burying it in the manual. But that may not be the issue.

Whatever the issue is, many of their burners do not arrive with the proper simmer adjustment. Of my six burners (plus grill), none of them arrived with the proper simmer adjustment which is why the technician thought that it was a gas pressure issue and not a simmer adjustment issue. He could not believe that 6 of 6 burners would be so far out of adjustment.

In the end the simmer will be rather high but usable. I can't imagine it would be low enough to keep a Hollandaise, but frankly I have not tried it.

It will be better after the technician makes the proper adjustments. You will enjoy cooking on it. Although it could do a better job on simmer it is fabulous in every other way.

Billy

    Bookmark   February 28, 2012 at 11:09PM
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aliris19

As I have contributed to the negative tone of this thread I want to chime in and say that I agree 100% with mangiamo's really articulate expression and explanation of her own tone. It's possible to be frustrated -- really frustrated -- and yet still, overall, happy with the purchase.

There are an awful lot of things I think are not as I wish they were on the CC, but if I had it to do all over again, I'm pretty sure I would buy the same machine.

    Bookmark   February 29, 2012 at 12:51AM
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breezygirl

Aliris--why don't you look at getting a service call for burner calibration? Or DIY it like I'm trying to do? My simmer did get lower after my amateurish fiddlin'. Not what I would consider a low simmer, but, as I mentioned earlier, I've always cooked on cr@ppy coils and I'm no pro so maybe I don't know any better.

    Bookmark   February 29, 2012 at 1:51AM
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mangiamo

Good morning

Billy and Aliris, thank you (and all GW who responded) for your kind words of support. I already enjoy cooking on the CC so I'm sure I'll be overly delighted when the simmer is readjusted. I will call Trevor (he is so kind as to have a Toll free number).

As an aside, I have noticed (and I don't know if I'm just looking too hard) that the space behind the knobs is now not parallel to the range (bigger gap on right, almost touching range on left) when they are turned down to simmer. Could the piece of metal they are threaded onto have become bent with the adjustment? I will ask Trevor when I call him. I also have a question about the fit of the rolling racks.

Warm regards to all

    Bookmark   February 29, 2012 at 6:16AM
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TonySak

What are you trying to simmer? I have absolutely no problems with simmering on my CC. My wife hasn't either. We were just talking about how much we loved it.

A few of my burners simmer slightly higher, and a few simmer so low that not all the burner holes have a flame in there (no clicking), and some are between the too. All this is due to how each burner was calibrated at the factory, and i messed with the air shutters a little when i got my new toy. I was going to make them all even but I love them like this. Its like i have 3 different levels of simmer.

FYI on the knobs, I had the same problem. The metal knob actually slides into a plastic sleeve. The Valve stem on the stove also slips into the sleeve. If you take off the knob, you can push the knob further into the plastic sleeve to fix the gap issue. CC does have a very nice fit and finish, the factory just needs to get their act together on assembly.

    Bookmark   February 29, 2012 at 11:30AM
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deeageaux

TonySak,

Did you notice any difference at the top end to the differenty adjusted burners?

Does the burner with the lowest simmer have the lowest heat at the top?

    Bookmark   February 29, 2012 at 2:45PM
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mangiamo

Thank you Tony.

I have had problems with tomato sauce, gravies and stews. I still had an issue last night after the calibration (with simmering tomato sauce) but I am going to talk to Trevor about it. I will also try to fix the knobs. As you say, the fit and finish is very beautiful and it is a shame to have knobs and oven racks that are adjustment away from being as perfect as a man made object may be.

    Bookmark   February 29, 2012 at 2:53PM
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soibean

I'm a longtime lurker on this forum, and have decided to get a CC rangetop just based on what I have read here. I was worried about the simmer problem that has been mentioned, so I went to a local dealer to see for myself. It seemed like the simmer heat really was too high, and I started to doubt my decision. But since I live in the metro Boston area, I decided to call on Trevor and talk to him about it. He showed me on his own CC range how to adjust the output, and it couldn't have been simpler. Then we cooked a pot of rice on the CC and the simmer was perfect (thanks, Trevor!). Having seen it, I'm not sure why so many people report problems getting it set right. Anyway, I was completely re-assured after visiting Eurostoves, and I will definitely be getting a CC when I do my kitchen.

    Bookmark   February 29, 2012 at 4:33PM
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amcook

Maybe it would help if those that have problems with simmer post some pictures of the flame at simmer so we can compare. I had one of the original small pot burner that they originally shipped but ended up replacing it with the full sized burners when they were shipped to me. I make rice, soups, and sauces all the time and haven't really had a problem. I will admit that I never leave a simmering pot completely unattended for any length of time. Even when I had the BS simmer burner, I still found it necessary to watch it to ensure it didn't boil over or scorch on the bottom. The only way I'd leave something simmering would be on a french top or similar diffused heat. The reason is no matter how small a burner, it is still direct heat from a flame. It hits the bottom of the pot in concentrated spots and with a thick enough bottom to the pan, the heat spreads. The ideal "simmer" is fully diffused heat. That means french top or induction typically. I personally just use a cast iron comal under my pot when really delicate simmers are required. And yes, I did this with the BS simmer burner as well.

    Bookmark   February 29, 2012 at 7:15PM
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breezygirl

I took some pics of my flame and will upload later.

Soibean--could you please tell me (us) how Trevor "adjusted the output" to fix a high simmer?

    Bookmark   February 29, 2012 at 10:45PM
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mangiamo

Hi Trevor (or another GWer)

Do you think you might be able to upload a video on the fix? PLease also show how to recaliibrate the knobs. There seems to be several of us who would very much appreciate it. I could then also show it to the service technician. I am a visual learner and if you try to explain it to me over the phone I may not get it. Hence the delay in phoning you. Whereas I could watch the video as many times as I needed and also refer to it if I need to readjust.

If you are hesitant to put it on your culinarian web site (and I understand it may cause some buyers angst) then maybe we can link it to another site via Garden Web

I know it would take some effort but some of us in this community would be so grateful. The service technician really didn't feel like he could do much else and implied it was skewed expectations.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 6:32AM
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soibean

breezygirl, Trevor removed the burner knob, took a long, thin flathead (I think) screwdriver, and adjusted the output with the screwdriver. Basically, there is a screw inside the burner apparatus (don't know any technical terms here) and turning the screw one way or the other adjusted the flame height, simple as that. Trevor turned the screw until the burner started to click, then turned back a little the other way. I think he kept a pot on the flame while doing this to be sure that the conditions were correct. I didn't see any issues with the knob not aligning properly when replaced. The flame got low enough so that I could hold my hand over it for an extended period of time without getting burned. You could see flames just barely showing from all of the burner holes, from inner to outer rings. HTH.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 9:09AM
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TonySak

a video of it would be cool.

@deeageaux: Its really so minimal i doubt there is a different on the high end. Ie a bigger difference is noticed on the low end, with the high end and all the extra BTUs i doubt it. Not to mention i vary rarely uses high heat. If you like I can put all my burners on high and put my hand on the grates to see if i can notice a difference.

Mangiamo: Im no cook, but could you use a smaller pan to try to reduce the hot surface area? Maybe its spread out so much its drying faster. Although if you used the same pan in the past on a GE range and had no problem the CC should also be able to do it.

soibean: I'm in andover, ma. Our rice also comes out killer. Trevor was nice enough to make that rice video at the time.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 10:28AM
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trevorlawson

Unfortunately my video equipment is in CA, we are doing some filming with Modern-Aire Hoods next week. When I get back I will do that for sure. In the mean time i am going to buy a new screw driver today so i can tell everyone what size they need, I will try to take some pictures of what needs to be done.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 10:38AM
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mojavean

I think the procedure to adjust flame height is the same between BS and the CC. A Capital owner can correct this if I am wrong, but I think all you have to do to adjust the flame is remove the knob and use a skinny screwdriver to turn the setscrew in the valve down. This is the same procedure on a Bluestar burner. I think it works the same on a CC.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 10:42AM
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stooxie

@deeageaux: Its really so minimal i doubt there is a different on the high end. Ie a bigger difference is noticed on the low end, with the high end and all the extra BTUs i doubt it. Not to mention i vary rarely uses high heat. If you like I can put all my burners on high and put my hand on the grates to see if i can notice a difference.

I was wondering about that. Can someone confirm whether or not adjusting the low end effects the high end at all? It's a whole new ballgame if it does.

-Stooxie

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 10:54AM
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soibean

mojavean, your video looks exactly like what Trevor did on the CC.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 12:03PM
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weissman

>>>Can someone confirm whether or not adjusting the low end effects the high end at all? It's a whole new ballgame if it does.

Yeah, you might actually drop down from 22K BTU to 21.9K and you won't be able to cook properly. Oh, the horror :-)

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 12:15PM
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stooxie

Yeah, you might actually drop down from 22K BTU to 21.9K and you won't be able to cook properly. Oh, the horror :-)

Weissman, I appreciate that you're being light hearted but I am curious, it might not be so rosy. If I turn the dial 10% to get a 10% lower simmer am I taking the top end down by 10%? That means going from 23,000 to 20,700.

I have NO idea if that is reality but I would definitely love to know.

-Stooxie

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 12:43PM
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aliris19

Stooxie - I agree, I've been wondering about this as well. Good point about the percentages -- though as a guess (guess only, mind you), I imagine things are, fortunately, closer to weissman's, um, "estimate".

Truthfully, the full-on high flame actually licks up the side of most of my pots, so turning it down a tad there probably won't be all terrible. Still, I agree: it would be nice for someone to load some curves showing this. I would bet they exist already.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 12:56PM
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mangiamo

Everyone, thank you for taking the time to comment. All your suggestions are very much appreciated.

Trevor, thank you volunteering to help out with this video as well as all the other videos.

Mojavean I look forward to seeing your video this evening when I have a little more time. Thank you for posting.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 12:58PM
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trevorlawson

The question from stooxi is a failed one so asked the head engineer his response was....

Trevor

Adjusting the low end has absolutely no impact on the high end.

Joey

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 1:06PM
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TonySak

"Yeah, you might actually drop down from 22K BTU to 21.9K and you won't be able to cook properly. Oh, the horror :-)"

was exactly my point. You wouldn't be able to turn down the simmer 10% of the 22k btu. This would make the Igniter click for sure. I think we're talking like 1% MAX, probably more like .25%. Its just enough to basically get the large burner head to have enough gas to make a flame in all the burner holes. If it does affect over all burner performance, just make the flame bigger on the other burners you dont simmer on. If its a new stove, it might just take some getting used to too. I know with rice, I have to be dead on with the timing or it will over cook. Do they make large simmer plates? I would imagine you would want one that is the size of the grate so it acts as a radiator where not under the flame.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 1:09PM
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TonySak

Also someone is going to have to teach me how to wok cook with the heat on full blast. I tried it once in a seasoned wok and everything including the peanut oil basically vaporized. You can get a dam good steak and scallop sear that's for sure.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 1:21PM
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aliris19

Oh, Tony -- I found that full-on heating for the wok scary too but so satisfying! For the first time in my life we have crispy stir-fried vegetables and everyone else even likes them too! I think you're allowed to turn it down once the oil vaporizes. ;)

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 1:43PM
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stooxie

Truthfully, the full-on high flame actually licks up the side of most of my pots, so turning it down a tad there probably won't be all terrible

That's totally fine but IF what we are saying is true (and I am being very careful not to say it is until we get a ruling on the top end) then marketing "True Simmer" and "23,000 BTU burners" at the same time is false. They would be exclusive of each other on the same burner.

-Stooxie

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 2:24PM
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stooxie

Adjusting the low end has absolutely no impact on the high end.

Ok, good to know!

-Stooxie

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 2:26PM
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TonySak

I wonder if we can turn up the high end now...

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 3:41PM
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breezygirl

Soibean--yes, that helps. The problem is that I've done the screw driver adjustment already on one burner. I turned it down a little too far so that my lowest knob setting initiates the ignitor clicking. Obviously, I turned it down too low and need to tinker again.

BUT...even when I turn the burner up just enough to engage all the ports which makes the clicking stop, my food on that burner still boils too rapidly for what I consider acceptable!!!

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 3:49PM
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kist1

Stooxie--it's true that adjusting the simmer screw has no effect on the max.

However, if they (Capital and/or service companies) are derating the burners (putting in a smaller orifice) to get them to simmer properly then, yes, they are lessening the BTUs from 23,000.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 3:50PM
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julier1234

Fouramblues - I have a Precision (four years now) and the simmer is great no matter the size or content of the pot/pan. I will admit that the simmer was high on arrival and needed to be adjusted by a service call. Ever since then, no problems in that area. I did keep one of the burners at the higher simmer level just for variety.

Good luck to everyone with simmer issues on the CC.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 4:05PM
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billy_g

The screwdriver has a 3/32" blade width.

1/8" is too big.

Someone said and I agree that physics sets the lower limit of the heat produced on simmer. For each gas port there is a point at which the flame goes out. Let's say that at the point which the flame stays lit it produces 100BTU (I made up this number for the example). If there are 100 gas ports then the minimum BTU is 100 x 100BTU = 10,000 BTU. If there are 50 gas ports the same size, then the minimum BTU is half that.

Based on this gas burner design and the number of ports you can see why so much heat is produced at the lowest simmer. That is why some stoves use a stacked burner -- so the smaller burner at the top of the stack can act as the simmer burner without contribution from the gas ports that generate the high BTU on full power.

Billy

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 6:44PM
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tyguy

Billy: your explanation is about as clear as one could illustrate. I have been trying to say that exact same thing way before the simmer became an issue on gw. As trevor said, simmer issue aside it is still a fine range. Definately the second best on the market! :). (KIDDING)

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 9:01PM
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trevorlawson

tyguy... funny you should say that, I sent Capital an email today about these simmer threads currently running on here,

One part of my very long email said....

"""""If you fill in the holes on the two outer rings you would have 22 holes which would make the CC have a lower simmer than the BS, based on the fact the BS has 35 holes, BS is your direct competition."""""

Amazing coincidence. but its true less holes less heat, pretty simple.

If Capital did this would that make it Definitely the best on the market! :). (KIDDING)

Just Joking with you of course, but that was in my email......

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 9:41PM
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billy_g

tvguy, I basically got this thought from your comments and decided to explain it in more detail here.

Trevor is right, it is pretty simple in terms of the number of gas ports, and if Capital adds some simmer burners BS will still be second-best on the market... Just Kidding!

Billy

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 9:58PM
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billy_g

Trevor,

Wouldn't it be cool if you could slide a lever and cover up some holes to switch a burner from regular to simmer? Or have an electric/solenoid control for this on the front of the stove?

Even the ability to swap the burner heads manually would be great.

This assumes the orifice still works and there is no unsafe gas leakage.

Billy

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 10:10PM
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buffalotina

Trevor: I could probably go and count mine...but are you saying that 35 is the number of holes on the BS "simmer" burner?

It seems to me, having cooked only on BS open burner, that this is indeed a number of holes issue. Frankly I find BS 22K too high for "simmer", especially as it seems it is being defined here and without a huge pan. I find my 15K is Ok for simmer on pretty big pans, and the small burner fine for smaller. So frankly I would say unless I had the option of moving my pan from the larger 22 to the smaller burners for simmer I would be not so happy with BS either. It does seem to be a fact of life that one burner cannot be all things to everyone....and every situation. I frequently find I get my stews etc all sauteed up and going on 22k but when I want them to quietly mature and simmer I need to move them down a burner or two.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 10:31PM
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tyguy

>If Capital did this would that make it Definitely the best on the market! :). (KIDDING)

Harhar!! I know are (sort of). :)

I was actually going to write in a previous thread that my prediction is that capital will introduce a simmer burner in the near future. I figured you (trevor) would be all over capital like a cheap suit and I have a feeling kalsi is less arrogant towards trevor than he is towards his customers idea's. And I am a pretty intuitive person.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 10:37PM
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billy_g

tvguy, that's going a little far. Mr. Kalsi is the opposite from what you say -- he actually LISTENS very well to the market and to his customers which is why he came out with the CC in the first place. I would say it has been a huge success. No doubt he will continue to make improvements and adjustments as he always has.

I'm starting to think you have a personal vendetta against Mr. Kalsi. I hope not; Gardenweb is not the right place for that. Otherwise I enjoy hearing your perspective.

Billy

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 10:52PM
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weissman

>>>It does seem to be a fact of life that one burner cannot be all things to everyone....and every situation.

Actually it can - it's called a dual stacked sealed burner - and DCS (which was started by the people who started Capital) invented it, I think. Wolf now has it as well. But it is a sealed burner which some people don't like. For me, the highs I get on the 17.5K burners are more than enough and I don't have uneven heating that some people seem to feel you get with sealed burners. But the big advantage is that I have an incredibly low simmer (as well as the high BTUs) on all the burners. No shuffling around pots for me or twiddling with screwdrivers to adjust simmers. I wouldn't be happy with a single simmer burner, by the way. And yes, I stir fry regularly and don't steam the food with the sealed burners as some people seem to think happens.

I find it somewhat ironic that the same people who poo-poo sealed burners are now wringing their hands about simmering on their open burners. To each their own.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 11:03PM
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billy_g

Hey Weismann, I mentioned the stacked burner in one of my posts above as a solution to the simmer issue.

My understanding of stacked burners is the design can be used on either open or sealed burners.

So don't start an open versus sealed burner debate when it's irrelevant to simmer.

Billy

    Bookmark   March 1, 2012 at 11:18PM
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marcolo

ROFLMAO! Before venturing too far to blame open burners, some people might want to familiarize themselves with the universal burner design that prevailed in 90% of the last century. Great simmer, open--and on a lot of models, stacked. Some of the O'Keefe's produced around 15-17K BTUs, too.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2012 at 12:39AM
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tyguy

>If Capital did this would that make it Definitely the best on the market! :). (KIDDING)

Or one could very easily conclude that the cc will be one step closer to being as good as a bs! :)

    Bookmark   March 2, 2012 at 7:29AM
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camelgirl

Because we can't possibly assume what pots everyone has, I think there might be room for marginal error on this front as well. Personally, the pots I have, once brought to a boil (doesn't matter if I move them to a dedicated simmer or not), retain so much heat that a simmer is near impossible. Maybe some of the people experiencing simmer issues can look to the craftmanship of their pots & pans as well?

If some people think the simmer is perfect on the CC and some think it needs work, I would lean towards other variables as well as challenging the design of the burners themselves.

Caveat: I do not own a CC, but have cooked on one and have seen the simmer work beautifully.

PS - Trevor posted a video yesterday comparing a simmer on the CC with and without a simmer plate. View it by clicking the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: GQ Simmer Comparison Test

    Bookmark   March 2, 2012 at 9:49AM
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soibean

Trevor,
I really hope with all of the discussion around this that Capital takes some kind of action. I wonder if you could comment on why some people (like you) are able to get the CC to an acceptable simmer temperature, while others seem to be unable to adjust the burners low enough without the clicking. Given the number of complaints, it seems unlikely that pots or elevation are the culprits, although it's hard to say for sure.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2012 at 9:49AM
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aliris19

Soibean - nicely put. There is some animosity in tone around here (for which I apologize for my part in), and it's way better to back it off. I sure don't know everything (despite what I tell my kids): help us to get to where you are, Trevor! [but note that I don't think the screwdriver port-turning-down will work in my case at least since mine are Capital-technicians-set and infinitely close to clicking already -- nevertheless I'm willing to give tinkering with gas flow a shot].

Camelgirl: thanks for pointing out the link. As for pans, in my case, I use (for simmering) le cresuet of many sizes and shapes, uncoated cast iron, revereware and canning-aluminum. All of them boil, not simmer. And that after a long, long while too, so even the heavy cast iron would have had ample time to cool down were it going to.

I like your point, though, about looking for other reasons besides burner design. Anyone? over.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2012 at 12:48PM
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camelgirl

woops, the link I posted above should be titled GW not GQ. :)

    Bookmark   March 2, 2012 at 2:59PM
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billy_g

I posted these comments about simmer plates in one of the other threads, and I am copying it here.

I've come to the conclusion that simmer plates do very little on the CC, even if they are dimpled or rippled. I also think I know why.

Simmer plates help spread the heat and they slow the transfer of heat from the burner, but they CANNOT reduce the amount of heat coming from the burner. Some types of simmer plates (especially the double-layer ones) channel the heat away from the center of the burner, but if you are using a big pot the heat will hit the bottom of the pot anyway, regardless of whether there is a simmer plate underneath it. This is why big pots with stews, beans, etc. that you want to simmer keep boiling over -- the wide bottom of the pot catches almost all the heat from the burner even if you put one or two or three simmer plates between the burner and the pot as I have tried.

I hope this helps explain why simmer plates don't work to reduce the heat from a simmer burner that is too hot. The heat is going straight up and the simmer plate slows the heat transfer at first, but once it gets hot so does the pot. The fact that the simmer plate creates an air gap with the pan doesn't do anything -- there is already an air gap between the flames and the bottom of the simmer plate or pan and that doesn't stop the heat!

Almost all simmer plates are smaller than large pots, so simmer plates flatly don't work when the pot is much wider than the simmer plate. The simmer plate just diverts the heat to the edges of the pot (LOL, just like a closed burner) and the pot gets hot anyway.

A simmer plate with a small pot might work if the bottom of the pot is smaller than the simmer plate.

For me, simmer is tougher to achieve in a big pot than in a small pot on a CC, although on other stoves the opposite is often true.

It might be possible to design a large simmer plate that diverts the heat away from the pot but (1) this would be a large and unwieldy simmer plate, and (2) this would cause the heat to be channeled toward other pots and pot handles on the stove -- which is hardly a good solution.

Billy

    Bookmark   March 2, 2012 at 3:17PM
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aliris19

So I guess that's why my husband's gerry-rigged one doesn't do much either?

He worked so hard on it!

    Bookmark   March 2, 2012 at 5:15PM
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mangiamo

Hi everyone

I tried to simmer this evening following service call screwdriver adjustment and still found the simmer to be high. jscout posted on another thread a different adjustment (in addition to the screwdriver intervention). I will give that a try and hopefully we can get this machine working at its best.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2012 at 9:07PM
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mangiamo

Good morning everyone.

Some good news. We used the lodge cast iron griddles this morning. One double griddle pro logic and two single burner pro logic. I preheated on simmer for all 4 burners. The results were much better than before the screwdriver adjustment. There must have been a little taming of the heat.

I would suggest that it is a good idea to have service (or yourself) try the screwdriver adjustment. It seems to have helped a little.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2012 at 12:17PM
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aliris19

Woo hoo! Now try jscout's ignitor nudges -- together these little tricks might just be enough?!

I've yet to find a screwdriver that will reach. My electronics ones have a join that precludes reaching. Two hardware stores' were duds. Turning the storeroom upside down for "precision" screwdrivers yielded, at last, the sets but none at 3/32" Frustrating! Where did y'all find yours that work? We have approximately 1.2 x 10^6 screwdrivers around here yet none is correct. Grrrrrrrrrr.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2012 at 12:29PM
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breezygirl

I'm still hoping that someone can walk me through Jscout's adjustment.

As for the screwdriver, DH tried Sears last night being unable to find it at a couple of other stores. Still no luck. He's going to a specialty hardware store this week.

And I will call Capital tomorrow.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2012 at 3:21PM
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aliris19

Breezy -- I was literally shifting about in my car for the key to head over to Sears to look for this stupid screwdriver. Thanks for the heads-up! I'll skip that trip....

If anyone happens to find it just at Home Depot, could you please post that? Else, I'm not sure where to head to. And I live in ground zero for consumerism. Maybe an appliance service store I know of near here...?

    Bookmark   March 4, 2012 at 3:25PM
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breezygirl

Aliris--might call your Sears first to ask before ruling them out. Just looked at their website, and they might sell one that works. Our Sears is small so inventory differences could mean you might have better luck at your store.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2012 at 4:25PM
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billy_g

I bought mine at an Ace hardware. Amazon has them. See link below.

Billy

Here is a link that might be useful: Amazon 3/32 slotted screwdriver

    Bookmark   March 4, 2012 at 4:44PM
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PeterH2

@billy_g - your link brings up a list with many different variations; how long does the shaft need to be?

    Bookmark   March 4, 2012 at 6:11PM
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mangiamo

Hi everyone. I'm sorry for not responding sooner I just came back from running some errands. My DH (I think this means dear husband) said his was purchased in a specialty store that services cameras. He is going to find the name and the link.

Please understand that I am still having an issue with the simmer for stews, sauces and the like. I just wanted to post some good news that the cast iron griddles no longer smoked when I heated them up on simmer.

However in a misguided attempt to pan sear on medium some salmon fillets before I put them in the oven I created a nice Jackson Pollock oil splatter all over my beautiful statuario backsplash. I must confess I was warned about the marble and went in with my eyes wide open. The culinarian on the other hand.....

I would like to sign off LOL which for the longest time I thought meant Lots of Love.

But the real LOL is what keeps me centered. And several glasses of wine.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2012 at 6:19PM
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IceMan965

Screwdriver Solution: For those of you who are having trouble finding a screwdriver just make one. When I did not have a small screwdriver long enough to reach the adjustment screw I was not going to waste the gas trying to find one.

Just take a piece of wire or coat hanger, flatten the end a little with a hammer then use a small, fine file to shape the end, then bend the other end so you can turn it. It make take a few tries to get the flattened thin enough to fit the slot inside the gas valve stem but in less than five minutes you can make one.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2012 at 6:53PM
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mangiamo

Hi everyone

My DH said the one used for the service call was purchased at home depot. It is their Workforce brand and is 2.5 x 50 mm slotted screwdriver (we're in Canada eh). If you find it too short DH recommends

http://www.wihatools.com/200seri/260pico.htm

Good choices would be 2 x 60 mm or 2 x 100mm, or 2.5 x 75 mm or 2.5 x 100 mm. The technician said the 50mm length was a little short.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2012 at 7:08PM
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billy_g

PeterH2,

The shaft is 2-1/2 inches long and that was just enough. I wouldn't go shorter.

The one I bought from Ace Hardware is stock number 2167054.

IceMan -- great idea!!!

Billy

    Bookmark   March 4, 2012 at 8:57PM
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jscout

I bought my screwdriver at an electrical supply house. But I saw the same brand of tools in the electrical department at HD, so it should be available there.

Here is a link that might be useful: Klein Tools Mini Screwdriver

    Bookmark   March 5, 2012 at 2:31PM
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