Opinions on Appliance choices

WholelottahustleFebruary 21, 2014

Hi everyone,

Longtime lurker, first time poster. This forum is a great resource for appliance info! We are embarking on a kitchen remodel and I would like to get an opinion of our appliance selection before we make our final selections:

Range: American Performer 36" 6 burner
Wall Oven: Wolf E series
Speed oven: GE Advantium 240v
Fridge: GE cafe full depth
Hood: Still researching, open to any opinions
Dishwashers: KitchenAid KDFE304DSS

Any and all opinions welcome.


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Wall oven, if you must have a wolf, get the new model, why????
Read the posts about "Current porcelain problems"

Dishwasher, Miele,


    Bookmark   February 21, 2014 at 5:54PM
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Thanks for the reply.

We are going with the new Wolf wall oven. I believe its still called the "E" series.

We looked at Miele, but my wife didn't like how the tines were setup. They were to close together for her liking making it hard to fit certain bowls.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2014 at 8:57PM
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There are the old and the new E. The new E has a removable bottom of the oven cavity which makes repairs easier and cheaper if you have issues with the enamel chipping. You might want to read about that issue on this forum.

Be aware also that the American Performer warranty excludes the porcelain altogether which to me with my bad experiences with porcelain is pretty suspicious. My issues have been with blue porcelain but still it makes me wonder why they exclude it.

Parts Exceptions:Rubber seals, grates, light bulbs and gaskets are warranted for 90 days from purchase. Oven door glass breakage is not covered by this warranty. Porcelain and glass components are excluded from this warranty.

Here is a link that might be useful: American Range Residential Warranty

    Bookmark   February 22, 2014 at 8:03AM
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I was all set to buy a KitchenAid dishwasher to match my KA counter depth refrigerator and KA convection stove, but reading reviews here made me change my mind. Problems with floods and fires were pretty well documented on this website. Link to Kitchenaidfires.com for more info on the fire portion. Now Whirlpool may have fixed all the issues at hand by now, and there have been many happy customers here recently, but in my personal opinion it is bad when an appliance manufacturer does not make a product that is as reliable or doesn't perform the task as intended, but it is totally unacceptable to wreck your house when not working.

I got the bottom of the line a Miele 4225 Classic for $900 that has met my every expectation. Higher end Bosch also get good reviews here. The functional capacity of the Miele is incredible for plates and bowls if you have the thin Corelle brand dish ware. The only knock on the Miele is the install can be tricky for local code conformance. It is not hard wired, so you need a separate circuit outlet nearby and the 7/8 drain outlet hose poses a problem for the countertop siphon break, since they are all set up with a 5/8 inlet and 7/8 outlet. Miele service areas are also limited to major metropolitan areas so you have to be a do-it-yourself on the repair end in rural areas. The high end Miele are noted to be very good, but over my budget.

Get the Miele, you won't regret it.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2014 at 8:09AM
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Nice "Sleuthing" on the American Performer warranty, wekick!

That sucks, not only the porcelain but the exclusion of the glass in the oven door.

Perhaps we need to look at other oven warranties on ovens that use the porcelain interior, both the one year warranties and the extended warranties.

I do recall a post about shattered glass on a Gaggenau oven, and Gaggenau refused to do anything about it!!!
(at least according to the poster of "said problem")

Obviously Electrolux is not the only company that excludes the porcelain in the "extended warranty" (the warranty you can buy after the one year warranty). I guess one could say, "at Least Electrolux is honest about it" rather than "surprise surprise"~~~~a la Wolf, Ya thinks?~~~alto I can't recall if you bought the extended warranty for the Wolf, (I,m leaning towards "You did not".)

Really a shame Electrolux changed things after my oven. It has the removable bottom, like the new Wolfs will have, and after more than 7 years, not a trace of a problem with the porcelain, BUT I Do NOT!!!!! self clean the oven.

Anyway, nice informative post, wekick!!!!!

Main message here is,
"BE SURE TO READ THE WARRANTY ON ANY OVEN OR ANY APPLIANCE, BEFORE YOU BUY IT"~~~~~~also check out what is covered by any "extended warranty" you are considering buying!


    Bookmark   February 22, 2014 at 5:55PM
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I had a Monogram Advantium and I loved it. I only had experience with the 240v version, but it did a great job of baking when I didn't want to heat the whole oven. It was a little putzy as a microwave because of the control wheel so I would just hit the "add 30" button a lot. It was awesome for reheating leftovers too since you can keep things crisp with the halogen. I never used the auto functions and geeked out with the custom settings.

The only negatives were the lack of a light when cooking (the MG version only had halogen and it would only stay lit for 5 seconds unless you were actually using it to cook). The other was keeping it clean. I frequently used it with the speedcook heaters on high which caused some oil splatters to brown on the sides and walls. Oh, and my wife was always questioning which tray to use... Have fun with the new kitchen!

This post was edited by kristianCO on Sat, Feb 22, 14 at 18:43

    Bookmark   February 22, 2014 at 6:32PM
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Great feedback everyone!

We will definitely take a close look at miele dishwashers before making any kind of decision.

Good call on the porcelain exclusions on the American Range Performer. I'll take a closer look, although I don't think it will be a deal breaker.

I have read about the porcelain failures on different brands. So it seems porcelain failures are not isolated to one manufacturer.

Do you guys have any idea if the porcelain failures in ovens are related to self clean cycles?

Thanks again for the input.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2014 at 10:19PM
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See the posts about Wolf porcelain failures, I believe some were never self cleaned , (or even run at very high temps), ((according to posts here)).

Fortunately Wolf has redone their ovens, ( A La The older Electroluxes, ~~~like mine~~~~with the removable bottom).

The other BIG advantage of the removable bottom is, it is very easy to take out to clean, hence we have not really needed to self clean the oven in the 7+ years we've had it.

We do a turkey every year, but it is in a large turkey pan so no spills or splatters from it, and we have not done "Messy stuff like whole chickens or game hens~~~etc~~~my wife makes me do those things outside on our infra red BBQ. but "Your mileage may vary"!


    Bookmark   February 23, 2014 at 7:10AM
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"alto I can't recall if you bought the extended warranty for the Wolf, (I,m leaning towards "You did not".)

I bought my Elux and Wolf from the same guy. I did buy the extended warranty, from them for the Elux and they replaced the liner on my Elux. It was billed out at $525. He told me that I would not need an extended warranty on the Wolf as they always stand behind their products. I think at that time they did as there was a poster here not that long ago that had double ovens that had the porcelain fail. They were 41/2 years old as was my range. They replaced his ovens for a nominal fee, $500, because there had been some upgrades to the ovens in that time. Every other instance of this type of damage, Wolf did replace the ovens or buy them back. In my case the repair estimate started at $800 with no cap and after haggling, they would give me the part and a couple hundred dollars of the labor but they would only guaranty the part for one year. With all the continuing problems with the blue enamel, and the unknown amount for labor, we decided to pass on that. You have to use their repair so there is no way to bid it out. This is a change from what they used to do.

"The other BIG advantage of the removable bottom is, it is very easy to take out to clean, hence we have not really needed to self clean the oven in the 7+ years we've had it.

I wonder if it is lift out like your Elux or removable but screwed in.

Wholelottahustle, I have personally had failure of the porcelain liners in three brands and they were all a little different so may be for different reasons. They all were blue. The first was Dacor, in 07. It seemed that the porcelain was just not adhered well. When I received my wall oven. It had 1-2 inch "sheets" laying in the bottom. It was replaced. The range had a large chip come of when lightly touched by the rack. They replaced the door. Dacor bought back both appliances for other reasons so I bought the Elux oven and Wolf range. The wall oven was shedding blue enamel shards when delivered so Elux replaced it. After 41/2 years I noticed it crazing and shedding shards again. I think once the crazing starts, it just chips by expansion and contraction of the metal with heating and cooling. The Wolf was more of a patchy chipping and was down to the bare metal in places. Some of the wall ovens had what appeared to be crazing. You might think so what if it chips but this can be very dangerous. The enamel is glass and this can be dangerous around food especially if you have the convection fan on. This will also allow the exposed metal to degrade faster.

Read specifically the terms and conditions of the warranty, as some will say all parts and labor covered for 1 year but the exclusions are in the "small print". American is the only one I have read so far that makes those exclusions from the beginning although some might try to construe enamel damage as "cosmetic damage" and that is in many extended warranties.
Also read the use and care guide as you may find some interesting things in that.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2014 at 8:44AM
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Sounds like you have had some really bad luck with porcelain!

Just wondering what you would do if you had to do it all again, or would you stick with the choices that you originally made?

    Bookmark   February 23, 2014 at 4:06PM
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I definitely agree with the other posters about Bosch or Miele dishwashers. They are reliable, quiet and last a long time. Miele is really the best bet.

Hoods - try Vent-a- Hood, XO or BEST by Broan. They specialize in hoods. Check to see if you have any CFM requirements by your township. Six months before my kitchen renovation, the township limited CFM to under 400 and this impacted my decision.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2014 at 4:23PM
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Hi Chis, we're also in the planning stage of remodeling our kitchen. We haven't yet ordered our appliances, but leaning toward:

Dishwasher; Miele
Fridge: SubZero built in
Cooktop: Electrolux
Wall oven: Gaggenau - I need a side opening oven for accessibility (I have MS and use a power chair)
Microwave: GE Advantium (we currently have one and love it)

We have recently learned that Bosch is coming out with a side opening oven and a matching speedcook/microwave, due out in April. We're holding off that decision until we see them as the oven is a lot cheaper than the Gaggenau, and I like the idea of a matching microwave.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2014 at 12:02PM
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" Posted by Wholelottahustle
Just wondering what you would do if you had to do it all again, or would you stick with the choices that you originally made? "


Both function really well as far as baking and temperature. I ended up better with the Elux so maybe I will get a few more years from it with no self clean. Sears has this which is made by Elux but with gray enamel, also dual fans like Wolf, but no one on this forum has tried it. You would have to read the warranty carefully as well as the extended warranty. Also with Sears, they often buy an appliance from the manufacturer without its warranty and it is up to them if they want to honor the terms of the manufacturer's warranty. I bought another range from them and it had a blemish to the external enamel. It also had an issue with the burner. They fixed the burner but not the enamel saying if I had bought the extended warranty they would have fixed it. This was during the original warranty and was clearly covered on paper.
I am looking to replace the Wolf range. I think a 4 1/2 year lifespan is pretty poor. I would not buy anything Wolf. I would like DF but it probably is not possible. Ideally I would get a separate rangetop and oven but I would have to redo the cabinets.

    Bookmark   February 25, 2014 at 8:06AM
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