Dishwasher fo Bar Area

cata3February 20, 2012

I am building a separate bar area into my kitchen. It will be for beverages, drinks, coffee, tea, etc. with refrigerator/freezer drawers. I want a single dish drawer but I could easily fit a regular dishwasher. This dishwasher is for coffee mugs and drinking glasses only. I am putting a panel on the dishwasher and my main concern is which dishwasher when replaced would still be able to use the old panel. If I go with a dish drawer should I choose Kitchenaid or Fisher Paykel.

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Go with a bar glass washer.

Here is a link that might be useful: bar glass washer

    Bookmark   February 20, 2012 at 10:20PM
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GE and Miele also make 18" wide dishwashers.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2012 at 8:16AM
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Between the Kitchenaid and Fisher Paykel, go with the Fisher Paykel.I have an older 603 model,6-7 years,no problems.They have improved upon the older 601 and 602 lid seal issues and have a simpler and IMHO more logical mechanical design.DADOES would be able to elaborate on that. The current models have easily adjustable shelving.CR suggests the Kitchenaid Drawer does not wash as well. As with all non-bottom of the line dishwashers you have an electronic control board which should be protected with a GOOD plug in surge suppressor if you do not have a whole home electric panel box protector.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2012 at 12:37PM
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Isn't the KA made by F&P? Or did KA start making their own?

Either way, if this is in the kitchen, can you be sure that you're not going to want to fill it up with a few kitchen things? Or put a few extra glasses in the main dishwasher? So far, the only people I've seen self-report that they kept things separate have done it for religious reasons (kosher), not location. If you're not going to keep them religiously separate, and have guests (and family members, for that matter) drinking with barware glasses religiously bring them back to the bar area rather to the clean-up zone, especially when they have a plate too, the location may turn out to be a big bother, with a lot of back and forthing.

Most people find it much more convenient, when there are two dishwashers, to have them within reach of each other, at most a step away.

I know someone who had a big kitchen and a bigger butler's pantry, where all the entertaining dishes lived. She had two dishwasher drawers installed in the butler's pantry and didn't like it. She left one DD in the BP for rinsing things that had been in the cupboard long enough not to be fresh, and installed a second full sized DW in the kitchen proper. It was a big bother and expense to redo, but she's very happy with the result.

Just something to consider as you firm up your plans.

As to the panel, as long as there isn't a cutout for a control panel, you should be able to transfer the panel to a new machine--or, that is, a skilled carpenter should. What usually happens, however, is that the machine lasts long enough for the standard sizes to have changed just enough that you have to do a little changing to the cabinets anyway. As long as you have a good carpenter, he/she can make it all work, even if it means making a new panel to match in.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2012 at 2:26PM
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Isn't the KA made by F&P? Or did KA start making their own? Only the first-generation KA drawer units (model number of KUDD01) were sourced from F&P. The 2nd-generation KA drawer machines (model numbers of KUDD03, there were no KUDD02 models) are a different design that Maytag developed but had not yet marketed, which Whirlpool obtained when they bought Maytag. My understanding is Whirlpool sources them from Fulgor.

Kenmore Elite drawer units were never sourced from F&P, they've always been the Maytag/Whirlpool/Fulgor design, which are/were also sold under the JennAir and Maytag brands.

F&P also sells their design under the DCS brand.

Last I saw some months ago, KA still does source their drawer units from F&P that are sold on the European market.

So, there are two manufacturers/designs of drawer dishwasher machines on the U.S. market:

--> Fisher & Paykel = brands of Fisher & Paykel, DCS, and 1st-generation KitchenAid models KUDD01.

--> Maytag-Whirlpool/Fulgor = brands of Kenmore Elite, 2nd-generation KitchenAid, Maytag, and JennAir.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2012 at 3:14PM
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This bar area is 7 feet long and sits in a wide hallway between the kitchen and family room. It is definitely not in the kitchen because if it was I would not bother with another dishwasher as I want as few appliances as possible. The only reason I want a second dishwasher is that it would be a 10 foot walk to store the bar glasses and coffee mugs if I used the dishwasher in the kitchen. If it were plates that stacked it would be easy enough but how many glasses can you carry in one trip. I would like the dishwasher to be paneled since it is so out in the open but maybe it doesn't matter. My dishwasher in the kitchen is Kitchenaid because they are the only ones that can fit my thick Pillivuyt Coupe porcelain dinnerware. So do I go with a full sized dishwasher or one disdrawer. I like reliability. It's like my Volvo V90. I have had this car for fourteen years and it is like new inside and out. I only drive a couple miles a day and it has just over 100,000 miles. But this car has always been in the shop for one thing or another, usually electrical or oil problem. Good thing I have a good mechanic or else what a pain!

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 11:58AM
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I wasn't trying to talk you out of it! Just pointing out common themes we hear from people with multiple dishwashers.

As to whether KA or F&P is better for you (thanks Dadoes for the information!), perhaps you should take some of the dishes you'll be washing to the showroom and see how they fit? Dishwasher drawers load differently than standard rack dishwashers, and it takes most people awhile to learn the best arrangement, but barware has its own difficulties anyway. There might be one that suits you better than the other. And perhaps trying it out will answer whether you want a single drawer, an 18" small DW or a full sized. Some of it might be the ease of loading and quantity it holds. Maybe a drawer holds too little. Maybe a full sized holds too much. Maybe a full sized is just right because glasses fill up so fast. Figure out what your typical load will look like and try it out.

Just for information, and to answer your rhetorical question, I grew up with the dish storage farther from the dishwasher than your glasses storage will be from the one in the kitchen. I can carry about 8 large ice tea tumblers at once to empty the dishwasher (that's without sticking fingers inside them).

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 12:35PM
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We have had a similar lay-out for about 15 months now.

We used an 18" panel-ready Bosch in the wet bar. It is about 16' away & across the island from the main clean-up area of the kitchen.

We entertain often & it functions well as a drop zone for glasses. With large crowds, one of us posts ourself at the wet bar & loads the glasses & small plates right into the Bosch.

We only use it about twice a month, though, so I'm still experimenting with the best way to stack it. HTH

    Bookmark   February 23, 2012 at 12:31PM
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tomuch2chus, how doe you like the Bosch 18"? I been looking for future upgrades in my small appartment kitchen and still wavering between a small sink base and sink so I can fit a 24" DW or just change the sink and counters and get an 18".

I'm looking at the Bosch, Electrolux and Danby Designer 18" models in stainless and "stainless look"

not sure if that will be enough for 2 persons With a deep single sink to do big pots or if an 18 inch will just make me mad because its just not big enough.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2012 at 2:56PM
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Fori is not pleased

I have (and have had more in the past) a F&P DD. It's a great dishwasher, but if you're looking to wash a lot of stemware at a time, you might do better with something else. You absolutely ought to go check out the layout of all the dishwashers with a good idea of what you want to wash for a specialty slot like this.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2012 at 4:48PM
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Thank you for all your kind responses. This is a beverage center that will be used more for coffee mugs and ice tea glasses than for wine glasses. One or two wine glasses unless its the occasional dinner for eight and everyone has wine. Do the dish drawers not handle tall wine glasses very well?

    Bookmark   February 25, 2012 at 5:59PM
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It's just an idea, how 'bout getting yourself a tea cart/trolley where people can place their glasses, and you can make a one-trip trolley to the kitchen dw?

    Bookmark   February 26, 2012 at 10:20AM
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