Suggestions for mid-high end kitchen appliances

mace8259February 1, 2010

I need to purchace new stainless steel appliances, asap, for our kitchen remodel. The budget is mid-priced to high- end. I need the following:

dish washer (Miele, not sure which model)

refrig (french door, bottom freezer)-need lots of space

36 inch gas cooktop range

hood (TBD after cooktop decision)

double ovens

I looked at Wolf cooktops & I like how they look, but I want to get looks, quality & value.

I have looked at GE Profile, Samsung, Kenmore Elite & Electralux refrig, and I can't decide.

A salesperson tried to convince me that KitchenAide double ovens are a better buy than the Wolf, Viking or Thermadore.

I don't have to have everything from the same brand. HELP!

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Just stay away from KA, Maytag and Electrolux! Also keep in mind that products like appliances are made with design obsolesences. Wolf, Miele, Viking, Sub Zero, DCA, Bosch, are all leading names with a better than life expetentcy versus other names like GE, LG, Samsung, and all Whirlpool names. Kenmore is good but sometimes they try to improve a product e.g. the front load washer that has five different washing cycles. Many probably don't see the problem with this. The demonstration only shows a single garment in the washer. A full load probably won't be too effective in that case. Has a good mark up though.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2010 at 7:47AM
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"Just stay away from KA, Maytag and Electrolux! Also keep in mind that products like appliances are made with design obsolesences. Wolf, Miele, Viking, Sub Zero, DCA, Bosch, are all leading names with a better than life expetentcy versus other names like GE, LG, Samsung, and all Whirlpool names."

Such a Generalized Statement is no more accurate than "the next one" put out by Consumer Reports--based upon inputs from just under a million of their readers--(which I suspect is a larger data base than the one used for the above post?)

"The results are based on more than 950,000 CR reader responses to the online and paper survey, according to CR, which notes that because many consumers own more than one type of product in the same category, this translates to a total of more than 5.1 million product reports.

The survey found that high-end brands such as Viking, Thermador, Dacor and Jenn-Air rank among the least reliable brands of major cooking appliances as identified by CR readers. For example, 33% of Viking gas ranges and at least 15% of Viking, Thermador and Dacor gas cook tops were repaired or had an unrepairable problem during the period 2002 through mid-2006, according to CR's survey.

On the refrigerator front, CR writes that "pricey Sub-Zero" appliances are repair-prone: 24% of side-by-side models, and the same percentage of top/bottom freezer models, have needed repair over the last several years. Whirlpool's category-best refrigerators, in "stark contrast," required the least number of repairs (14% for side-by-side models, 7% for top/bottom freezer models), the release observed.

As people on this forum adise, So Wisely, evaluate each appliance on it's own---don't get caught in the trap of trying to "Match Brands" for all your kitchen appliances.

Why?????------Several reasons
(1) Because something that has a Wolf, Miele, or whatever name ,does not necessairly mean that appliance was made by that company-----case in point---Miele Fridges are made by Liebher---many of their fridges are being recalled,but so far not seen any Miele/Liebhers recalled and many folks are happy with their Liebhers and or Miele Fridges.

(2) Many companies excell on a particular appliance, Miele for example on dishwashers---it is very hard to find a negative review on any Miele dishwasher, but not so hard to find "Problem Reviews" with their ovens--uneven heating, their last generation ovens with the perfect clean interiors---"some" folks post that whatever coating was on those ovens was great at first (a year or so), but for some reason the coating was either damaged or dissapeared after a period of time---some thought maybe what they used to clean it, others attributed to salt on the food that was being baked----is this "just the tip of the iceberg", only time will tell, but Miele has since discontinued the "Perfect Clean" interior and went with , what they call, "Clean Enamel" now.
Take Electrolux As the previous poster Mentioned. Do a search and you will see many 5 out of 5 star reviews for their stoves, cooktop and ovens---but not so with thier fridges---tons of negative posts about them.
So these are but a few examples why it is a good idea to:
first get the model number of the appliance you are interested in---then google it with the word reliability, or review or problems. Do this for each appliance. You will get far better and more accurate info than the two posts above. Also Download the Operators and Installation manuals---that way you know how the thing operates before you buy it, and any "Snags" you might run into installing it.
Hope this post, (alto "wordie") helps you to get the best appliances for your particular use and ones that will continue to satisfy for many years (mine have for over 3 years now) can't tell you about service as none have ever needed any and I wish you the same set of circumstances!!!!



    Bookmark   February 1, 2010 at 12:41PM
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Dodge1959, your post may have been 'wordie' but very useful. I'm going to be sure to google the model#'s. Thanks for the info.

    Bookmark   February 2, 2010 at 12:34AM
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We had a Miele at our old house and could hardly stand going back to a traditional dishwasher (Whirlpool?) in the new house, so that was one of the first things we bought. Can't say enough good things about them. The quality is there, as is the quiet operation, but the kicker for me is the cutlery tray. It's brilliant use of space, and cleans silverware perfectly (no more sticking). Not sure why other brands don't do this.

Seems like we don't use any of the advanced settings (china/crystal), so not sure I would pay for those again.

As for fridges, have you checked out the Liebherr CS 2062? We don't own it, but that's the one we're looking at.

Here is a link that might be useful: Liebherr CS 2062

    Bookmark   February 2, 2010 at 2:28AM
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Hey JM!

Have you actually seen the CS 2062 in person? We were at another showroom on Saturday and liked the look of this frig, but as soon as we opened it up, it was immediately vetoed by me because the top shelf was totally out of reach by me of average American woman height of 5'4"! I can't imagine kids getting to that shelf for years. Hmm... okay that might not be such a bad idea.. ;)

Just hoping you and yours are TALL!

    Bookmark   February 2, 2010 at 3:54AM
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Nothing wrong with KA for their wallovens. If you're not a gourmet baker, you probably would never know the difference between the KA and the rest.

Wolf is priced high, and there's a lot to the name there. The Viking oven has been redone in the last year, and has lots of options. Price is going to be high but less than the Wolf. Thermador is a nice oven, but hasn't been updated much in a few years, and the control panel is not intuitive to use. Go in and play with all of the panels before making a large ticket purchase.

The Liebherr CS2062 is a very nice piece, as far as the height of the shelf, it's not much different than most built in fridges, though this is a freestanding fridge. (82" high though, make sure you have the room)

Imnteresting to note it is one of the few fridges with an icemaker that achieved E-Star status with the ice maker running.

    Bookmark   February 2, 2010 at 6:12PM
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Circus Peanut

I adore my Liebherr, and the height hasn't really bothered me at all. The thing is utterly silent, which is truly amazing, and keeps my produce in particular much fresher than any other fridge I've had. For what it's worth. :-)

    Bookmark   February 2, 2010 at 6:43PM
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I have a KitchenAid dishwasher. It has the cutlery tray. We've had it three and a half years with no problems. It cleans exceptionally well and is very quiet. I also have the KA SXS refrigerator. It's the best I've ever had. Quiet and trouble free. Now these might not be thought of as highly as Miele and SZ, but I just hate to see phrases like "stay away from" used with no specific problems explained.

    Bookmark   February 2, 2010 at 7:29PM
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Nice post Whistle. I bought my Miele dishwasher before I could even spell that, and I had no idea who they were, alto I did do some checks as to reliability and found no problems there. Before that I had always bought KA Dishwashers and all had done the job, but the last one I bought was Stainless Steel and that was no fun cleaning.
I bought the Miele, strickly because of the cutlery tray, at the time it was patented and nobody else had it. I suspect that had KA had it back in 2006 when we bought all our appliances, I would have bought it. I like the Miele, but that certainly does not mean KA is any less good and it certainly would have been "Kinder and Gentler" with my wallet, alto at that time, Miele's were not fair traded.
I agree with you about "Phrases" There's a real "LuLU" up about Whirlpool now------Kinda sad.



    Bookmark   February 2, 2010 at 9:27PM
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I would encourage you to look at Kitchen Aid. We went through similar agonizing choices and I think we made a good choice. (It will be delivered next week.) Interior construction seems more solid and flexible than other brands and the warranty is good.

    Bookmark   February 2, 2010 at 11:32PM
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Kitchenaid is part of Whirlpool...a massive conglomerate...easy to get parts for but I wouldn't say they exactly reak of quality...I have a kitchenaid fridge and it looks nice but the internal plastic is cheap garbage(I broke the internal water purifier holder in the 2nd year...basically the second time I had to unlatch it!)...

I also have panasonic, miele and electrolux appliances. I like miele the most, by far. Really imho there is no comparison but the price is also high. I know they don't make their own fridges(although someone said on these boards that is about to change) but they make everything else. They are a German family based company and quality and customer experience is all they are about. Perhaps I'm a bit biased as I also work for a private German family company(different industry) and know how they value quality and design and service above all else. I've also worked for large American conglomerates (Ingersoll-Rand) and I can tell you it's not hard to understand why their products are not that good...Miele might come off as a high end brand but they are extremely popular all over the world so they have the volume to get rid of product issues in the field.
Some of the high end brands do not have that luxury and rely more on design and style than on the product actually working and lasting a long time.
electrolux would be a close second for me but I have had some issues with their induction units but I can't complain about the functionality of their oven or the induction unit.

For the most part it's a personal decision like what colour of car you really need to find out who can service whatever appliances you choose best in your area and what manufacturer provides good service directly. Then it's just a matter of finding out what product you like and checking to see what the reliability is like...

    Bookmark   February 3, 2010 at 12:11AM
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Thanks - we are staying away from ice makers and drinking water systems as they all seem to break down. We actually spent a long time examining the shelves of different brands and it did seem that the shelves of the KA (bottom mount freezer, 21.9 cu ft) were stronger than other comparable brands -- plus the shelves come with a lifetime warranty. Maybe your model is different. We just want a good basic fridge without spending a huge fortune. I laughed the other day when a salesman told that a sub zero can keep a head of lettuce for a month. Why would you want to eat a head of lettuce that old? I'd rather spend money on other high end items (gaggenau steam oven perhaps?).

    Bookmark   February 3, 2010 at 12:34AM
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I have Miele dishwasher (5 years 0 problems) and one year old Miele Masterchef double ovens. My husband, who is a real penny pincher, says they are worth every penny. The ovens are beautiful.
One of our most favorite things about the ovens are the rotisserie. Even if you just use for chicken it is worth having it! No mess in the oven if you put water in the sliding pan that comes with the oven. The pans that come with the oven are great. Truly these ovens are a Chef's dream.
We love all our Miele appliances. However, the Miele tec did not recommend the Miele fridge,...

    Bookmark   February 3, 2010 at 12:41AM
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Regarding appliances, everybody has an opinion, and that opinion is based on the experience of owning and operating that appliance. For me, appliances like dishwashers and washing machines get put to the test. Daily multipal loads!

I would, and I do review peoples advice and experience before I would even consider a publication like consumer reports.

It's like the toyota recall. By the way, I have every reason to be suspicious regarding the recall. Toyota is a leading car company and has been for years. No "American" car can compete. Suddenly, there's a sticky pedal??? and now massive PR shoring up American cars.
It's a similiar war with appliance makers. If you have a bad apple with one, there's a good chance you will purchase another brand from the same manufacturer. Except for GE, and there are others I'm sure.Whirlpool just about owns the market. Bosch, DCA, Miele,Wolf/Sub zero have greater stakes and for now seek to stay above the competitors.Viking and thermodor have been the so called leading names found in estate homes and fine resturants but over the last few years the bang for the buck has slipped. On the other hand if you could but a viking or thermador for the same price as a whirlpool brand I would buy it.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2010 at 7:00AM
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"It's like the toyota recall. By the way, I have every reason to be suspicious regarding the recall. Toyota is a leading car company and has been for years. No "American" car can compete. Suddenly, there's a sticky pedal??? and now massive PR shoring up American cars."
I would suggest you watch the latest news about this problem. My BIL told me about the problem at least 6 months ago, it started in the Lexus, but He told me it would spread and so it has. In the Lexus it was a VERY Dangerous problem, as the car has a "Run/Stop button" but you have to hold/ or wait for the Stop button for 3 seconds to shut it off; Can't you imagine the car going full power , You trying to keep from hitting anything with your foot planted on the brake and hafta wait for 3 seconds for the engine to finally quit---yea you should put the darn thing in neutral or park, but when you're that busy You may not think of everything (or at least in time)
Toyota told Henry Waxman (Another of our "Loud Mouthed California Politicians"---yea we have a lotta them, Finestein, Boxer, Pelosi etc etc---anyway they told him (in a secrete meeting) that they are not sure replacing the gas pedal will fix the problem and they are not sure if the "Problem is Electronic or not"---as some experts claim. Perhaps a lil less bias and more "diligent reading"?????? You man also want to check JD Powers as to car reliability ratings,
Cadillac and Buick trounced most the German Cars , "quite handily" as far as total reliability as well as drive train reliability. Toyota still had high ratings, but I think you can guess where those ratings will go, once the data from the latest Toyota problems show up in the JD Powers data Banks.
In my business, I dealt with both Euro (German, English etc) as well as large US Companies, GE, Westinghouse, IBM.
There were many dedicated people there, and since my equipment was used by them for "Quality Control Purposes" hence, quality control people, I can tell you , with few exceptions, they were a dedicated bunch and it didnt matter whether they were Euros, Canadians or Americans.
Not fair or accurate to Generalize about US Companies as ya did!!!!!
From a "Personal perspective, I have had 2 Cadillacs and 2 Mercedes Benzes. The Benzes kept the dealer/service dept happy, while the Caddy's kept me and my wife happy!!!!


    Bookmark   February 3, 2010 at 10:35AM
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Thanks for the responses receive from each of you. I read various threads, visited a few appliance stores, and made some choices. We have ordered the Wolf SRT366 rangetop, Miele double ovens and Miele Diamante dishwasher . I narrowed down the refrig to Samsung & Electralux. I will be purchasing Electralux because the shelves are deeper (I took the shelves out of various brands and compared). I really need as much usable storage as possible, plus I liked the other features.

I still have to decide on the range hood and wine cabinet (for the wet bar) before 2/20/10, when we hope to finalize our kitchen cabinet order. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2010 at 11:41PM
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I looked at the Electrolux refrigerator today and came to the exact same conclusion but I see that there may be some quality issues. Did you check them out?

    Bookmark   February 16, 2010 at 12:29AM
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Between the two, I'd go for the Samsung 29cuft.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2010 at 2:46AM
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Whatever you do, do not buy GE Monogram. They cannot repair the products. Currently, they cannot replace the hinges on a four and a half year old ZET1038 wall oven. Three service calls before they declared it "unrepairable." They are offering to replace it with another model for $1300. If they will not stock parts for relatively new appliances, they have no intention of repairing them. Before this it was our 3 yr old professional gas cooktop that they could not replace a burner on. Same deal, "sorry." We paid 40% for a replacement, but they just left it in the driveway. Their extended warranty service told me that they didn't install the original so they had no obligation to install the replacement. Beware of GE!

    Bookmark   February 16, 2010 at 12:06PM
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Love our KA refrigerator - bottom mount freezer. Have had it a year and still enjoy it. Large spacious, nice lighting, a beauty!

    Bookmark   February 16, 2010 at 4:22PM
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I don't know of any "quality" issues that I should be concerned about with the Electrolux. Can you be more specific?

    Bookmark   February 20, 2010 at 12:13PM
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I second Mace's request. I have searched all over the net and cannot find all of these supposed negative Electrolux frig reviews. I can find lots for other brands tho...


    Bookmark   February 20, 2010 at 2:18PM
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Go to the link below, it is a thread on GW about Electrolux Fridges. You can also do a search in the BOTTOM search box of GW for more threads. These post would be enough to scare me away. I hope they solved the problems with the new ones. I seriously doubt that anyone on GW will accuse me of "Anti Electrolux Sentiments" (LOL)


Here is a link that might be useful: Electrolux Fridge Problems

    Bookmark   February 20, 2010 at 4:51PM
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I'm interested in any advice you get on a wine cabinet. We are looking into purchasing a 24" wine fridge, either Sub-zero or Marvel. Sub-zero is priced so much higher than the other brands and don't know if its worth it.

We are also buying the 36" Wolf sealed burner rangetop. The Wolf distributor sales rep recommended a 42" 900 cfm minimum hood.

Let us know your final decisions. Good luck.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2010 at 10:00PM
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I looked at the link for Electrolux problems...scary. I
However, I noticed that most of the remarka]s were from 2008 & prior. I was, originally interested in model EW28BS71IS. Has anyone heard anything about this model(pro or con)? Have there been improvements? Does anyone have any other suggestions? HELP!!!

    Bookmark   February 23, 2010 at 1:46AM
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It's probably too late but I'll add my two cents. I put Wolf/SubZero in my kitchen in my last house. When my microwave broke a second time when it was just out of warranty, the factory said that was just wrong and they gave me a completely new convection microwave and installed it for a processing fee of $50. They made sure I was 100% satisfied.

Fast forward to new house - Kitchen Aid appliances came with the house. Nice fridge, ok dishwasher but double ovens and cooktop are awful. Take too long to warm up and cool down. Really poor quality and they are only 3 years old. I wouldn't give you two cents for their cooking appliances.

I think Wolf has the best cooking appliances on the market. Miele dishwashers are also the best. I hope this helps.

    Bookmark   June 1, 2014 at 10:57PM
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