Window in shower how to Kerdi

cabinlifeJanuary 14, 2008

Background:

Shower over tub

Tub set in alcove (meaning tile will be on three walls)

Aluminum clear window in shower

Window installed incorrectly by previous owners = rotten rough opening due to water intrusion

Original tile was on drywall by previous ownders = mold everywhere

Completely replace everythingÂincluding window

New window is vinyl, tempered, obscured glass, casement/safari-style

I know having a window in a shower is frowned upon. However, in our situation we have no choice but to replace it. We did not budget to update the exterior of our house.

I have been sifting through all the posts on this website regarding Kerdi.

- I did see MongoÂs post titled "Kerdi Shower". This is just what we need for tiling the three walls in the shower.

- I did see bill_vÂs website where one of his customers had a window in a shower

http://creativeceramicandmarble.com/Gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=124

Questions:

1. How do we install Kerdi to the wall with the window?

2. After install of Kerdi, how are windows tiled?

3. How do we prevent water intrusion where the Kerdi meets the window?

4. We have the window but havenÂt installed it. Any tips or rules to follow to ensure we donÂt repeat the past? Do we treat this like any other window in another part of the house?

5. Do you place cement board on the inside of the window?

6. Anything else we should know?

I am hoping someone can provide step-by-step instructions that we can follow...fingers and toes crossed.

We are new to tiling and want to make sure to get it right the first time.

Thanks!

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bill_vincent

Can you provide us with a picture of the indow in yout shower? It'd be much easier if we could see it. Although it's about to change, this is the only picture I have as of yet with Kerdi extending to a window. This was a steam shower with a fixed woodframe window that got painted with Interlux waterproof boat paint. It gets sealed to the window with Kerdi-Fix, and the tile just abutts the window.

    Bookmark   January 14, 2008 at 8:08AM
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mongoct

Kerdi Fix is perfect for this. A bead of KF between the Kerdi and the window frame, then tile over the Kerdi.

You can terminate the tile with a simple bullnose or do something more complex.

I'm glad to hear that the "Kerdi shower" thread was a help.

Mongo

    Bookmark   January 15, 2008 at 12:07AM
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thull

I did something similar to Bill's photos. The Kerdi is sealed to the frame with Kerdi Fix. The frame is painted with Interlux marine paint. I also made a sill to go on the inside. There's a layer of Kerdi (liberally Kerdi Fix-ed) covering the gap between the frame and tile. Then the sill is bedded in thinset on top of that. The back side of the sill is caulked to the window frame.

Fortunately, it's a big shower, and the window's 5'3" or so above the floor, so it doesn't get much water on it.

    Bookmark   January 15, 2008 at 11:29AM
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codnuggets

I have a vinyl-framed acrylic block awning window in the shower I'm currently building. I will be tiling the entire wall, and the window/jamb is flush set (mostly) with the hardiebacker. There are some variations in the 'flushness' of the jamb to the wall, so I feathered the edges between jamb and hardie, let that dry, then ran a border of Kerdi band around the window right up to the edge of the vinly frame. I will follow with Kerdi on the wall (when the drywallers vacate the bathroom) and run it about 1/4" - 1/2" onto the vinyl frame and seal it with Kerdi fix. Tile will run just past the Kerdi and edges will get a good dose of silicone caulk or something else waterproofy. Pics...

I think the important factor is that you make sure your window surface is waterproof and that you lap the Kerdi onto that surface and seal it down with Kerdi fix.

Joe

    Bookmark   January 15, 2008 at 5:24PM
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bill_vincent

Fortunately, it's a big shower, and the window's 5'3" or so above the floor, so it doesn't get much water on it.

Wait till you see pics of the one I'm finishing tomorrow morning! It's a 41x41 neo-angle shower, and the window, which is 24x65 and start's about 13" off the floor, is directly across from the showerhead. All I can say is I'm glad this isn't MY house.

    Bookmark   January 15, 2008 at 6:38PM
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codnuggets

Bill, I'd love to see that shower. Mine is 44x48, same window/showerhead setup with an additional rainshower head from the ceiling. I was worried about my window, but with info and advice from a few threads here, I think I'll be ok. 13" off the floor...I don't think I would be so comfortable.

Joe

    Bookmark   January 15, 2008 at 8:18PM
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cabinlife

Hey guys  Thanks for your responses.

Bill wrote: Can you provide us with a picture of the window in your shower?
Here is a Âbefore picture. The shower appears to be fine from far away, but up close it was scary. And even worse once we torn it down to the studs.

Mongo wrote: I'm glad to hear that the "Kerdi shower" thread was a help.
A picture is a worth a thousand words. I always find instruction manuals with pictures to be the most helpful. Your step-by-step instructions are invaluable.

Thull wrote: the window's 5'3" or so above the floor
The bottom of our window is 4Â11" off the floor. Definitely better than 13". :^)

Codnuggets wrote: There are some variations in the 'flushness' of the jamb to the wall, so I feathered the edges between jamb and hardie, let that dry, then ran a border of Kerdi band around the window right up to the edge of the vinly frame. I will follow with Kerdi on the wall (when the drywallers vacate the bathroom) and run it about 1/4" - 1/2" onto the vinyl frame and seal it with Kerdi fix.
When I studied MongoÂs "Kerdi Shower" thread, Kerdi is applied to the walls firstÂand then applied to all the corners. However, it seems that codnuggets did the opposite. Then is it safe to assume that the order doesnÂt matter?
I was thinking the instructions for a "Kerdi window" would be like a "Kerdi niche". Using the pre-formed corner and all. But I guess not, huh? Please confirm.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2008 at 12:59AM
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cabinlife

One more thingÂ

In my original post, I asked if cement board should be installed to the inside of the window - similar to cement board installed to the inside of a niche.

Meaning, our window is not flush with the interior wall. It is framed by 2x4Âs making a sort of rough sill with sides, and a top. Should we apply cement board around the rough opening? Or, should we apply Kerdi directly to window sill, sides, and top?

    Bookmark   January 16, 2008 at 1:13AM
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codnuggets

Bill or Mongo will likely follow with a more detailed answer, but they have told me recently that kerdi can not be applied directly to dimensional lumber. If you are tiling the inside of the window frame, you'll need cement board on it. 1/4" will do the job.

Kerdi can be installed in any sequence, corners or walls first, as long as you get the proper overlap. I asked the same question in this thread, and Bill and Mongo set me straight as usual.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2008 at 1:33AM
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bill_vincent

When I studied MongoÂs "Kerdi Shower" thread, Kerdi is applied to the walls firstÂand then applied to all the corners. However, it seems that codnuggets did the opposite. Then is it safe to assume that the order doesnÂt matter?

You're right-- it doesn't matter. If you noticed, in my pic the corners were addressed first, as well. The ONLY thing that matters is that 2" overlap. Get that, and you're good to go.

I was thinking the instructions for a "Kerdi window" would be like a "Kerdi niche". Using the pre-formed corner and all. But I guess not, huh? Please confirm.

Pretty much. The only difference is you seal the Kerdi to the window. One thing you want to be sure of-- although it's not as important with a window up as high as yours, you still want to make sure when you install the bottom return (or "shelf") pieces, that you pitch them away from the window. That's probably one of the things that caused the horror show you found when you tore it apart.

Should we apply cement board around the rough opening? Or, should we apply Kerdi directly to window sill, sides, and top?

Anything that gets Kerdi, gets cement board, as well, and that includes that return to the window frame.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2008 at 7:59AM
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bill_vincent

Here's the one we finished this morning. Unfortunately, I dropped my son off to grout while I went and set up the next job (Wait till you see THIS one-- 10' high walls, all walls floors and ceiling gets 1" hex tile!)-- anyway, by the time I got back, the hardwood guy had already started putting the finish on the hardwood, and I couldn't get back into the master bath to get finished pics. But here are pics of the shower ungrouted:

    Bookmark   January 16, 2008 at 5:13PM
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cabinlife

Hi Bill,

Thanks for posting those pictures (very impressive) and for answering my questions. The info you provided is very helpful.

Thanks again!

    Bookmark   February 3, 2008 at 11:29AM
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bill_vincent

This is the other one I spoke of:

    Bookmark   February 3, 2008 at 11:43AM
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house_vixen

Hey Cabinlife, thanks for starting this thread.

Bill, I've was reading your advice -- and Mongo's -- back when we were wrapping up the kitchen and contemplating the bath. Unfortunately it's taken us so long to recover from the kitchen that my sieve-like mind now has to dig up all your old threads and re-learn!

And as I don't know if we're up for DIYing and per Flyleft Kerdi installers are rare in these parts, I'm gonna need to get to that learning.

Can I hijack this thread for a sec and ask about your "low- to-ground window in shower" remark?

Because we've got an existing l-to-g wood window that we're looking to swap for a glass block install when we rip out the tub -- among everything else! -- for a shower-only thang, and Mr Vix wants to take it even lower -- about where your neo-angle one is. [Beautiful work, BTW.] Can you set me/us straight on practicalities?

For you pic lovers/a laugh:

PLS NOTE THIS IS NOT MY HANDIWORK THX [ha!]

    Bookmark   February 3, 2008 at 2:04PM
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bill_vincent

Okay. If you're going to do this in glass block (I HOPE you're not anywhere that it gets cold!), and this is being done in Kerdi, You want to make sure you extend the Kerdi to cover the entire hole where the glass block will sit. You obviously need to be able to install your anchors, but you can use Kerdi-Fix where those get installed. Bottom line, you want to make sure it gets completely waterproofed, and then caulked around the perimeter. This is one place where you WILL caulk over the mortar-- just make sure the mortar around the perimeter is recessed so the caulking has a place to anchor itself.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2008 at 2:39PM
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house_vixen

Bill, thanks much...taking notes in case we're able to Kerdi (ourselves or others).

Normally we have pretty mild (50s) but rainy winters, but this year: brrrrrr. I didn't think trading a fairly large single pane window for a larger glass block would be anything but a step up -- sounds like that's not the case!

    Bookmark   February 4, 2008 at 12:43AM
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bill_vincent

Single pane, yes. Thermo-pane, no.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2008 at 7:31AM
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stu2900

Wow, I really have to jump in here and ask why no glass block in cold areas? We're in the midwest (our temperatures can change 30 degrees in any given day)and that was our plan, but maybe we should rethink? If no glass block, what should we look for in a window? I really want to get a shower in this tub, but we have a window over it to deal with and that seems to be the holdup. Any info would be appreciated!

    Bookmark   February 4, 2008 at 3:46PM
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bill_vincent

If you HAVE to have a window in your shower area, you need to use one that's either double or triple thermopane. If it's a steam shower, it's almost a necessity that the window be fixed (not able to open). If not, you could have radiant heat in the floor, walls and ceiling, and it's gonna get chilly in that shower! Although it seems like several of the showers I'm doing lately have windows in them, it's really not adviseable at all, if it can be helped. Of course, when remodeling, it's sometimes determined by existing conditions, but if you have the choice, it's always better not to have one in the shower if you can avoid it.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2008 at 3:59PM
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stu2900

So, are you saying there is no insulation value in glass block? We have to have something there, but I want to use the best method we can. Do you have any suggestions of brands for the window? We're having a professional lay the tile, but I've been following these Kerdi threads so I can know what I'm talking about when we explain what we want.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2008 at 4:09PM
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bill_vincent

I won't say there's NO "R" value, but it's not enough that you won't feel the cold radiating from it.

As for brands of windows, I've got to tell you-- I'm no window expert, but the two I see most up here in Maine are Andersen and Paradigm.

I hope that helps.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2008 at 4:23PM
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stu2900

It helps a lot Bill! It's so great to be able to get this kind of advice from professionals! We have Andersen windows throughout our house. Now we have to see if they have a vinyl clad one for that bathroom. Thanks!

    Bookmark   February 4, 2008 at 5:42PM
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