Why Do You Love Your Miele Oven?

mcleashgJanuary 2, 2009

New Years came and my 30" oven blew! I have always read Miele ovens are wonderful and many of you rave about them on this forum. Yet many also rave about the other brands too. Miele's are alot of money for my budget, so I would appreciate it greatly if Miele owners could tell me specifically what it is about this oven that makes it so special. I am really hopng for specifics (if that's possible other than the service which DH already knows about.) I would like to feel I'm spending $$$ for something that performs better, differently, has more or whatever? Thanks a million for your help.

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I was going to ask a question along those lines too. So as not to start another thread.

For those Miele bakers -

Can you really fit 6 pans of chocolate cookies at once and have them all come out evenly brown. (is this the only oven

How many pies can you fit at once?

How many loaves of bread?

For you with double ovens - how many shelves did you get?

    Bookmark   January 3, 2009 at 10:34AM
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Miele owner here and I do love my ovens.

I have the double ovens and they came with 3 racks each for a total of 6

Let me see If I can tell all the ways:

Convection. I bake upto 6 loaf pans at a time on two shelves and all come out perfect. I've baked upto 4 cookie sheets of choc chip cookies and 2 pans of bar cookies and all came out perfect

Surround: German pancake - perfecto. Angel cake - high and light. Puff pastry - don't get me started

Intensive with pizza stone - pizza crust to die for

Proofing - use all the time when baking bread although I switch the oven off after 5 - 15 minutes

Auto roast - tried for first time on Thanksgiving - had a PERFECT turkey with no basting whatsoever

I cook with an eye on the oven. Some things like puff pastry go realy fast, others like cookies, even on convection, take the same time as my old oven did but this may be because I am baking so many sheets at once.

I also like the delayed start, double timers, and ease of cleaning.

I honestly have never used the masterChef or favorites

    Bookmark   January 3, 2009 at 12:00PM
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Over a year ago I did a post that addressed the OPs question very specifically. If anyone can unearth it, please help. Unfortunately, my copy has disappeared.

Hoping that trailrunner, chinchette and lovetocook and others will post here as well so as to give the broadest possible assessment.

As we all know perceptions and expectations vary so what's good for me may not be good for someone else. I came to this purchase through a buy back. Part of my calculation was how little carpentry was needed in a painted oven cabinet. I had been in oven hell for nearly 2 years I wanted to make a very careful and considered replacement choice.

Two years later, with a single MC 30" Miele with perfect clean, I have not been disappointed. It has exceeded my expectations and quelled my anxieties, which were considerable.

This is a very expensive appliance and I would never tell anyone they "need" this. There are many ovens on the market that get good reports from posters here. You can spend less. Will that make a difference? I don't know. What I have learned in 4+ years around here is that the conventional wisdom on this particular board is true. So I was looking for low rate of complaints + high rate of satisfaction. I have no stake in what anyone buys but I will say if most on this board are complaining, I wouldn't go there and the reverse. Also, spend time on the old threads which have great information.

I ruled out certain brands due to high complaint rate. Also, due to my particular bad experience, I ruled out ovens that vented directly under the electronic control board. I wasn't going there again.

Miele satisfied all my basic criteria. The downside, I felt, would be the learning curve of the various oven settings which use heat sources in different ways. That must be accepted because it requires adjustments on recipes. It's become intuitive for me now but it has taken a while to master.

That's really the only downside I can cite. My oven is a great performer. The various settings give you more control than ovens without these. The probe is fabulous and I learned to trust it though I still do basic calculations of total cooking time --the oven doesn't tell you how long it will take to cook, just lets you know 20 minutes before it's done.

The rotisserie produces fabulous results but there is a lot of spatter and the clean up is considerable with that. I use that for company but it produces the most delicious food ever.

These ovens are sold for the predetermined (masterchef) settings. I used that once for a small turkey, which came out fine. Perhaps others can addressed using those. I also find programming the Favorites confusing and sometimes annoying. I have 1 or 2 programmed. I should sit down and figure it out as I suppose it would be convenient.

The temp in my oven is exact every time. I don't put thermometers in there to second guess. Cooking times are to the minute on tests I've done with cookie and cake mixes. There hasn't been a single problem, wobble or issue since installation (others have reported temperature and heating issues lately).

Oven comes with 3 racks and the drip pan that slips right underneath the racks. I roast directly on the rack, not in a pan. I also broil directly on the rack, the drips go down (less smoky than conventional broiler). Few roasting pans are needed (perhaps that is a savings for someone).

There is a screen to protect the fan that's inserted before roasting and removed for baking. That must be used properly but becomes second nature, I found. The whole oven comes apart fairly easily for cleaning. I wipe it down while warm (all the racks and pan have perfect clean coating but these cannot go into the dishwasher) and that takes care of it. I didn't want self-cleaning but others might (it costs extra).

The broiler is excellent.

I've had all the racks in the oven at once with different things on them -- turkey roasting on the bottom with casseroles reheating on the top racks.

I've done 6 pies in one batch -- two per rack on convection bake in my single oven. I did 2 trays of cookies the other day, each came out even. Bundt cake last night came out to the minute -- perfect. I've been doing that NY Times bread in the Le Creuset pot lately and that comes out amazingly well and in less time than the recipe suggests (I'm using surround with heat top and bottom).

Tried to present a realistic picture of the actual use. I do feel I'm very critical as I've taught cooking in past years and run a professional test kitchen and used a lot of ovens. This one is my favorite.

    Bookmark   January 3, 2009 at 1:02PM
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I use the rotisserie a lot. I found that as someone else suggested if you put 1/2 c or so of water in the drip pan there is no splatter. I was amazed. Almost zero cleanup so we are now using it all the time. rococogurl that is for you !

The temps are always perfect. After trying adjustments to temp per my reading and the book that came with the oven I returned to using the same bake temps as I always used. It has held true and my breads and tarts and cakes are all baked perfectly. I donot bake cookies or pastries anymore so have not tried it in this oven. As 246 says the pizzas are perfect.

It really comes down to what kind of cooking you like to do or aspire to do. They are 2 different things. Sit down with a piece of paper and read what we have said and see if those are things you are going to cook or learn to cook. Are you needing 3 racks of cookies and 6 pies and 12 loaves of bread? That is the bottom line. What and how much and then the price. I got mine as the floor model and they took off $1500. The technology is fabulous. I will never change. I hope this has helped you decide. c

Please post any other queries we all love to help.

    Bookmark   January 3, 2009 at 3:08PM
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Let me show you something quickly.

Here are two loaves of bread baking in my oven on convection setting:

Ane here are the loaves after I took them out. Ignore the hole on the side - I test the bread is done by taking the internal temperature (195) with my Thermapen. Note how evenly brown they are:

Ok, here is baking 4 trays of meringue at the same time:

Here they are - perfectly white and crisp, dusted with cocoa powder:

and finished

Here's my turkey from Thanksgiving cooked on autoroast with the probe:

and a chicken pot pie:

And I know trailrunner can post many more pics of bread etc she's made.

    Bookmark   January 3, 2009 at 5:24PM
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r, was this the post you were referring to? Had it in my clippings...

Hey chinchette. My understanding of autoroast is that it uses the top element to heat the oven up quickly (which is what I think they mean by sears). But the top element goes off after the initial temp is reached, I believe, while the bottom and the fan keep going.

The other day I was on an English website reading about multifunction ovens -- which are similar to the Miele.

As I understand it the differences between the various settings are heat combos -- bottom only, top & bottom, top for a while and bottom with or without air. The convection settings all have air and conventional don't. The air helps keep the heat even in the oven as i understand it.

From using the oven, I've observed that the convection bake and convection roast settings are best when the heat needs to be distributed evenly because there are multiple racks are cooking at the same time. Convection bake I find to be fairly gentle heat.

I get intensive and surround confused but I think one has the convection and the other doesn't (my book is not where I am now). I still double check.

Some of it is trial and error for me and I've started noting the settings on my recipes. I have a 2-crust apple pie, f.ex. which I've been doing on intensive because I find the bottom crust gets very brown and the pie tends to really cook through very well.

At the end of the day I think the setting is a function of thickness, when you want the browning to start and then how much is in the oven (# of racks used). So it's about control -- but you need to know in advance what kind of control is needed for a recipe, which you can't often gauge the first time.

I made focaccia the other day for the second time. I didn't write down the setting the first time but it came out perfect. I used intensive and thought it came out dry but I also used a slightly larger pan. Next time I'll try a setting without top heat (though it was nice because the onions on top cooked really well).

Since I've had the oven I haven't called Miele to discuss all this. I tend to know how things cook and what I want but I'm not always sure. Also I find some of the terms they use in the booklet area unclear.

But since everything seems to come out quite well usually, I haven't taken the time to call them. When I do I'll post again.

Meanwhile, my mainstay for roasting is autoroast. I like intensive but found it best for thick things that need heat penetration to the middle and are ok with top heat.

Think I used surround for baked potatoes, which worked great.

Hope that helps somewhat.

    Bookmark   January 3, 2009 at 6:35PM
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Actually there was a previous one, more about the features. I do natter on. LOL. Search no longer seems to go back more than a year -- self-archive or perish evidently.

    Bookmark   January 3, 2009 at 6:51PM
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Thankyou loves2cook4six, for posting your pictures of what you were baking, my husband sells appliances for 13 years now, and he's had nothing but wonderful comments of the new style and the bigger Miele ovens, some ladies bring in the cookies, and he just loves that, he manages to bring some home for me. Ive been looking at them, I know they're expensive, of course made in Germany, I have the Miele intergrated dishwasher, also the stackable Miele Washer and Dryer , so why not get the Miele wall oven, we already have a wall oven, it's a Whirlpool, it's ok, we've had to have it calibrated twice already, and the oven is only 8 years old, I made sure I got the extended warranty, that really helps. Time to say bye bye to the Whirlpool and to get my Miele, with the self clean.

    Bookmark   January 3, 2009 at 7:06PM
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Not wishing to look like a slacker (these were not taken with posting in mind, just for myself)...

Apple Pie (note nicely browned bottom crust on intensive)

Sullivan St. Bakery bread in Creuset Pot

Onion Focaccia

Thanksgiving Turkey Stuffed Under Skin

246 - your meringue mushrooms gave me a holiday flashback! Love those.

    Bookmark   January 3, 2009 at 8:09PM
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Rococogurl, Trailrunner, 246,and all, how do I adequately thank you for taking the time to respond and adding the pictures in response to my initial question. You've convinced me about the quality of the finished items...baked and cooked.

I do have a couple of follow-up questions based upon my reading of the use and care manual (not impressed with its content and lack of information), speaking with Miele presales reps, demo class chef and conversations with other oven owners:

- Do you find the lack of glide out racks a big drawback?That seems to be a regular with most the other name ovens?
-What about the exposed broiler? Does it give you enough room in the oven?

- I am concerned about the MasterChef technology. I gather no one uses it, so am I paying big bucks for something no one uses? Dumb Question ?

- And this is real knit picking, but I have found some strange things about the oven's settings; Masterchef and regular...

For example:
-the Proof setting for a light batter gives a temp of 110 degrees ... isn't that high for proofing a regular bread? (the heavy batter setting is even much higher).

On Masterchef the "Fresh Pizza Setting" uses the Surround setting!!! I thought Intensive setting seems to be brick oven standard for pizza ...you've mentioned you all use this for pizza as the oven's book suggests. The pre-sales rep and chef in demo class I attended just brushed these things off and gave alternative suggestions.
Again, have any of you had a problem concerning this kind of thing or am I just being to picky? Just seems for the $5K everything should work exactly and the user should not have to work around these inconsistencies. Was just concerned that it might be evidence of a not so "put together" oven.

I appreciate any further comments input etc., and once again I can't thank you enough for your kind help.

    Bookmark   January 4, 2009 at 12:08PM
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I'm running out so I'll try to address what you said quickly.

First, brava on the research. Way to go.

Proof setting is within range 110-115. I used it once and it's fine. It's also good for warming plates, breads, coffee cakes etc (I didn't replace my warming oven).

What I mentioned as a learning curve has to do with the various settings for various tasks. Surround has heat that comes from the bottom & top at the same time with no convection. Intensive is bottom heat with convection. I am personally very devoted to these two settings, which are becoming my default settings when I want less gentle heat than convection bake provides. However, convection bake did a gorgeous job on a bundt cake and produced it to the minute.

European convection is the basis of this oven, which I take to mean controlling heat source and hot air circulation through the various settings. While I don't agree with all the applicatioons the booklet provides, or even with some of the cooking definitions they use, the oven performs well on each and each one delivers.

Re Masterchef. My feeling is that this is a marketing application for entry level cooks. It's there, it's fine. I've read posts may new cooks in the past who used it and loved it. Depends whether or not you need it.

That said, oven technology is changing. If you've seen the Turbochef in action, you see that is a totally recipe based cooking system. F.ex. you are cooking a leg of lamb. Your settings are based on lamb, then leg, then doneness and the heat is a combo of forced hot air and microwave. It's really new and it's really different and it's the only fully new oven technology I've seen in the past 4 years.

Then there is European convection systems with ovens like Miele and Gagg and perhaps others. Those have the combi heats using hot air (but not with the turbo velocity) but conventional heating (I'm not speaking of combi "speed" ovens). These include very precise electronics such as the probe, where I can set 135 for my leg of lamb doneness and it cooks it to perfection, alerting me with a beep 20 minutes before it's done. I'm someone who has used instant read themometers my whole life and letting those go has been a leap of faith but the electronics in the oven do it. To me, that's progress. The rotisserie is a terrific feature as well -- although several ovens have those now. I like the dual timers and the fact that settings will turn themselves off if I use the delay timer system (start, duration, end).

Behind that are convection ovens with single heat (bottom) sources that offer conventional baking and convection baking. I looked at the Wolf, which is this type, but has two fans for super even heat circulation. Many love these as well though issues have been reported. My personal issue with the Wolf when I was looking was the hot air venting under the control panel. I understand that has changed and applaud them.

As I said in my initial post, this oven is no more a necessity than buying a high performance car. But it is a high performance oven IMO and in the opinion of others who are willing to show what we turn out.

You are not being picky -- just trying to answer your own questions which are logical and smart. I should add that part of the enjoyment of using the oven, for me, is experimenting a little with the various settings and what they do with recipes I've done many times -- letting the oven "show me."

A good deal depends on what your expectations are as it is a lot of money to spend. The only way I can address that is to say I have not found the performance to be inconsistent in any way (although the company's explanation of how to use it for cooking might be). I would definitely buy this oven again, I would recommend it to friends and clients as a designer and I feel it's a solid choice.

    Bookmark   January 4, 2009 at 12:53PM
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The sliding racks is not an issue it is one we struggled with but believed the several peple we talked to. The racks slide easyly with a large turkey and holds it in position for easy removal. Miele has a slider in their European versions but was told in Canada there was not enough demand to make it worht bringing over. I like the MasterChief and it has cooked chickens and turkeys without an issue.

    Bookmark   January 4, 2009 at 2:08PM
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Loves2cook- so funny, I'm not usually here, so its funny that you said hey, but I wasn't on this thread yet. Now how did you know I was reading it?

I used the Masterchef the first few times for chicken, but now I'm hooked on rocco's recipe which is 400 degrees on auto roast for about an hour for a small chicken. Its so good that I haven't used the rotiss since using this method. I'm not an experienced cook. So I am not sure if it would come out as well in another oven or not. Rocco? Would it? I never made roasted chicken before this oven if you could believe it. Its true that the Miele has the autoroast feature wherein it sears from the top for the first bit. By the way, the chicken is fantastic on the rotiss. Its a bit more work.

I did try to do three small chickens at once, all on one rack, and that didn't work out for me. I guess they were too close together. Parts were underdone...Has anyone tried that?

I hardly ever do cookies, but for some reason, when I did, the top back left ones came out browner than the others. I think I used convection bake. So I wonder if its just my oven that is off. I don't give it a work out to know. We mostly cook outside on The Big Green Egg all year long. And I'm not a baker.

I've made pizza on the masterchef setting, and I do think it would be better on intensive. I'm trying that next. I see that masterchef puts it on surround for crispy crust, and convection bake for soft crust.

I don't think that the masterchef is the reason for buying the oven. It does seem to be a waste to me. However, Its a great oven. I also got mine as a floor model with a discount.

    Bookmark   January 4, 2009 at 4:02PM
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OK I'm sold, but more so...you guys are the best. Thanks again for helping me, you all should be working for Miele!

    Bookmark   January 4, 2009 at 6:54PM
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Hey chinchette, long time. The only other chicken that ever came out as well was way back in the ice age when I had a countertop Farberware convection oven. Same result (also same amazing leg of lamb). It's the convection cooking on the rack and cooking at high heat IMO.

No problem doing more than one as long as skin is patted dry before hand and they aren't touching-crowded. They shrink as they cook. Might take 15-20 mins longer since there's more in there but it shouldn't be an issue.

I haven't done pizza since my stone went missing and we have great pizza on every corner. I'd try both intensive and surround and see which works best for your recipe.

Convection bake doesn't have the same heat intensity -- it's more of an even flow far as I can tell, good for multiples.

I used the 2nd and 4th runners for cookies the other day with convection bake. I'm converting the infamous Neiman Marcus recipe to my custom recipe and only through the first version so I'll likely have plenty to say about evenness along the way. The bath of 2 sheets I did came out perfectly and on time.

mcleash -- I don't want to work for Miele but a thank you gift -- say a rotary iron -- would be appreciated. As if... LOL!

    Bookmark   January 4, 2009 at 7:23PM
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We should put together a Tastebook recipe book for the Miele with detailed instructions, then sell copies to owners. Seriously!

So rococo with these NM cookies, are you using convection? I assume so. When you say on time did you cook at the recommended 375 for 12-14 minutes as the recipe in Maida Heatter's Brand New Book of Great Cookies calls for or at 300 for 20 minutes like the NM website suggests or are you doing the convection rule of reducing time and/or temp by 25 minutes/degrees?

BTW, my experience has shown that I don't need to change the time or tep for perfection (most of the time). I still always watch the first few trays to make sure I am right.

And if you need testers for all those cookies....

    Bookmark   January 4, 2009 at 8:18PM
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Those recipes are on snopes. I had never heard of them until we visited DD recently -- she and the DH were making them. They were too sweet for me so I've been playing around. I did 375-10 mins, convection bake. You are right, I also just use the regular oven temps. I'll post when I have the recipe ready.

    Bookmark   January 5, 2009 at 8:06AM
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Here is a link to the pizza I did last night. I used the stone and preheated in Intensive at 500 degrees for 1 hr. It was the most amazing pizza. I venture to say I have never had 10 pizzas as perfect as these were in taste and texture and sheer beauty ! The Intensive is the way to go for pizza. You want the heat at the bottom. There is plenty already to get the top done. You really don't want the top to brown too fast anyway as it ruins the cheese etc. Hope this helps. c

Here is a link that might be useful: pizza in the Miele

    Bookmark   January 5, 2009 at 12:35PM
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I love my Miele because it gets hot enough and stays hot enough to cook pizza very quickly.

You'd think any oven could do that, but the new Thermador that we had simply could not operate at that level.

    Bookmark   January 5, 2009 at 2:41PM
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tommy would you be willing to give your setting and baking method (stone/rack/pan?) as trailrunner did so everyone can see the various ways folks are using the ovens. Just great to have all these.

    Bookmark   January 5, 2009 at 4:16PM
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rococogurl, absolutely! although I'm still tweaking the approach.

firstly, I think the dough is very important. I make my own, and let it rise in the fridge for at least 2 days. this gives it time to develop flavor. i also make a dough with relatively high hydration (a lower flour to water ratio). 1 cup of water and about 2.25 cups of flavor. this isn't crazy high hydration compared to what some people do, but it's higher, i think, then most pizza places. and i use a high gluten flour, most recently King Arthur bread flour. pretend you're making bread.

for the pizzas pictured above, i set the Miele to surround bake at 550 (it's the setting that accepts the highest temp). i have a pizza stone on the floor of the oven, and then another on a rack the second from the top. i let the oven preheat for over an hour. Preferably 2. this allows the stones to get very hot (over 550 degrees when read with an instant read thermometer).

i start the pizza on the bottom stone for about 3.5 minutes, to form a crispy crust, and then move it to the top stone. at that point, i switch to maxi-broil at 575, for another 1.5 minutes or so. This turns on the broiler and blasts high heat to the top of the pizza. I have these settings in "favorites", so I can quickly switch the settings when necessary.

Tonight I actually just used one stone, on the second to the top, on maxi-broil the entire time. I liked the results, which were pretty much the same, but without having to switch the pizza mid-cooking. It also took only 3.5 to 4 minutes this way.

2.25 cups bread flour
1 cup water at 105 degrees
1 teaspoon instant yeast
1 teaspoon salt

mix the yeast and the water and let sit for 10 minutes. add 1 cup of flour and mix for 2 minutes and let stand. 20 minutes later start adding the rest of the flour a bit at a time, and the salt all at once, and mix for 10 minutes or so. portion the dough and let it rise in the fridge. 2 days later take it out a few hours before baking and let rise at room temperature.

good luck!

    Bookmark   January 5, 2009 at 7:26PM
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Tommy what size stones are you using? And the bottom one... it sits on the actual oven floor? Do you have a perfect clean or self clean oven? Do you think it matters? Just wondering about the effect on the finish. I have a 12 x 15 Pampered chef rectangle and a 15" round one also by PC. Will they work?

Dh, the main pizza baker in the house, is now on a strict gluten free diet. It gives me a chance to make a regular pizza crust without feedback LOL as opposed to the 50% wholewheat ones he always makes.

I am so going to try your method. I'll get the dough started on Wednesday as soon as I have the new panels and a handle on my new Miele Fridge so I can get the door open - whoo hoo can't wait.

    Bookmark   January 5, 2009 at 9:34PM
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i have a round pizza stone, probably about 15 inches. for my second "stone" i just use unglazed quarry tiles for the second (so cheap!). I don't have a Pampered Chef stone, but I have to assume they all function about as well. If it gets hot and stays hot that's pretty good.

I don't move the stone on the floor of the oven very much. I'm not sure if it has an impact on the finish, or if an impact matters much. But if it just sits there, I can't imagine there would be an issue with the finish. I also have set the stone on the bottom of the floor, but on top of 4 quarry stones, just so there's less contact with the oven floor.

In a gas oven, I wouldn't be worried at all. With these new electric and electronic ovens, I don't know. I can't imagine the oven "learns" or "compensates" for the stone, so it is what it is. the oven performs well with the stone left on the floor. The manufacture's advice may differ.

I have self clean, but I don't think it matters unless the heating elements are different. They might be, I have no idea. But that wouldn't deter me from using this oven as I see fit to get and keep high temps. I think it can handle it without crumbing, like the Thermador oven did.

    Bookmark   January 5, 2009 at 11:10PM
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Ah, so the lower stone stays in all the time no matter what you make or do you take it out say if you're baking cookies, a casserole, or a cake? Or are you just using your ovens for Pizza?

And where do I find unglazed quarry tiles?

    Bookmark   January 6, 2009 at 8:34AM
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yeah, i leave the stone on the bottom all the time. it helps regulate the temp of the oven, and it's just easier. it will, however, cause the oven to take much longer to come to temp.

i don't do any delicate baking, so i can't speak to any impact that it might have, but i know plenty of people who leave their stones in the oven on the oven floor. Again, the manufacturer probably doesn't agree with this.

Unglazed quarry tiles can be found at home improvement stores like Home Depot, which carries (in my town) tiles from Metropolitan Ceramics.

    Bookmark   January 6, 2009 at 9:20AM
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Can someone tell me if the roasting pan must be removed when not in use? I've been taking it out each time, but not sure if it's necessary?

Also those of you who use the oven rack as part of the roasting apparatus, do find it difficult and/or akward to clean after? I don't have a huge sink and am afraid I'll scratch my sink up trying to clean the thing. Thanks so much.

    Bookmark   January 6, 2009 at 3:39PM
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I find the rack to be difficult to clean. I've changed my set-up. I'm using a Le Creuset grill, and a small wire rack usually used to cool off cookies. The rack is draped across the grill (pan). I'm roasting a chicken that way right now. Its super easy to clean. When I do two at once I use the roasting pan and the oven rack.
My Le Creuset is a cinch to clean.

Speaking of programing in favorites, I've never done that before. I just programmed in "Rococo Chicken". How cute. It says it in the screen the whole time its cooking.

    Bookmark   January 6, 2009 at 6:50PM
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I cooked my turkey directly on the rack and it just wiped clean. No problem whatsoever.

    Bookmark   January 6, 2009 at 7:01PM
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Thanks for your responses about roasting on the rack, I don't find the rack hard to clean, it's a matter of size I guess. Can someone comment on whether it's OK to leave the drip/roasting pan in the oven all the time or whether you remove it each time. Thanks.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2009 at 5:50AM
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I think I've used my drip pan twice. The rest of the time it's at the back of the tray cupboard.

I think I'll have to take it out soon and give the rotisserie a whirl again. Last time it made such a mess I swore it was easier just to buy a rotisserie chicken and way cheaper if you consider the cost of running a self clean cycle LOL but now that I have trailrunners tip for putting a 1/2 c water in the tray, I think I may try it again.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2009 at 9:44AM
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Gosh, those pictures look delicious!! How much does an oven go for??

    Bookmark   January 7, 2009 at 9:59AM
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Chinchette, wow, you friended me in your oven! LOL

I don't find the racks difficult to clean at all. The Palmolive liquid helps cut the grease and I go over them with a worn out green Scotch brite. I have an excellent sprayer, which helps a lot with the rinsing, then I shake them off and let them dry a warm oven or turn it on for a few minutes. Same with the pan.

Unless I'm using the drip pan specifically, or want to use it to radiate additional heat right under the rack, I remove it. Wouldn't leave it in during any kind of delicate baking or even a cake unless I wanted to increase the browning reaction on the bottom to some degree.

Also broil right on the oven rack with the drip pan underneath.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2009 at 10:20AM
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I use my drip pans several times a week. They are so big that when I roast vegetables and also when I make double batches of granola they are perfect. I also use them for baking rolls. I always spray lightly with oil and then I place parchment paper for some things over that. Sometimes I use paper and no oil. Any way I do it they are so handy and they clean up with just the green scrubby.

246 you simply will not believe how the oven looks after using the rotisserie and the water. I do the chickens at 425-450 for 4# ones. I always do 2 at time. They are ready at 1hr 15min. I like mine DONE and crispy LOL.

Doing pizza again tonight since I froze 3 balls of dough. Will let you know what setting I use and how it does.

This is so nice to have people to share the info with :)c

    Bookmark   January 7, 2009 at 12:52PM
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Trailrunner, where did you get your pizza stone and that fancy pizza paddle that you have?Do you really have to heat the stone up for 1 hour at intensive. I'm getting my new Miele oven next week. I've been doing alot of reading of the posts on the Miele ovens, so much to learn,and I've learned alot from you ladies too, thanks.

    Bookmark   January 13, 2009 at 3:31AM
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why are we not sleeping ?? ...I was just preheating the stone for 30 min. That works just fine really. I did use the intensive and liked that better.By the time you get the pizzas shaped and start putting them in one after the other the next 30 min goes by very fast...so if you just preheat 30 it will be fine.

I got the stone from Amazon, they still have it but it has gone up in price. Fantes also has them and has the individual tiles which I think I am going to get so that baguettes will fit better. My DS1 go the peel for my but I don't know where. I kind of wish it was wooden not metal as you can rub flour into it then to prevent sticking. I am going to get another one anyway for when we have parties and it will be wood.

It is SO exciting that you will have your oven !! Please keep us updated and post pics . c ( now go back to sleep :)

    Bookmark   January 13, 2009 at 5:00AM
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trailrunner, I just looked up Fantes, looks like they don't ship to Canada. That's ok there must be some stores in Alberta that would sell the big pizza stones like yours. I'm also going to get a wooden paddle. I can't wait to get my Miele oven and to say bye bye to the Jenn-Air we've had it for 9 years now and it's getting tired just like me, ha ha.

    Bookmark   January 13, 2009 at 1:54PM
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depending on the temperature you're shooting for, 30 minutes will not be enough time to sufficiently heat a pizza stone. if the temp of the stone is important to you, you should buy a laser thermometer to verify that.

    Bookmark   January 13, 2009 at 6:29PM
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tommy it didn't quite come out like I meant it. I start shaping the pizza crusts at the 30 min mark so really it is getting on up there by the time I put the 1st one in . I prebake for 1-2 min and then top and return to oven so I don't need the stone to be HOT at 1st anyway. I have found that this method works for me....so far it has worked for a couple other folks as well. Thanks for sharing so much info. It helps to have lots of different views. c

    Bookmark   January 13, 2009 at 8:47PM
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i should rephrase that: 30 minutes is not enough time for the stone to get as hot as it can get.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2009 at 12:07PM
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This is an old thread - I hope the wonderfully informed posters are still around!

Question: We just bought a Miele 30" Chef (not MasterChef) oven - my DW has used it three times -each time with huge success. I read in theis thread about Autoroast - is that a feature unique to the MasterChef series?


    Bookmark   January 30, 2013 at 8:25AM
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Reading a manual online, it looks like this is a "premium convection program", which heats the oven past the set temperature to sear the meat (for an unspecified time period), then drops back down to your set temperature (default is 320F). Note that you do not pre-heat the oven when using this feature.

In other words, it does not use the meat probe which your Chef model may not have (?), but it may not be an option for your model, either -- your manual will describe it if this is available for you.

OTOH, by manually running your oven past a normal roasting temperature and then back down, you'll re-create this feature.

    Bookmark   January 30, 2013 at 6:14PM
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What are the basic differences among:
Miele Chef,
Miele Classic,
Miele Europa?

And why the big price difference between the 17 operating modes model vs 8 operating modes? Do you use those extra 9 modes?

Do all Miele wall ovens come with the rotisserie feature?
With a temperature probe?

Thank you for clarifying!

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 4:15PM
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One more question: I will have a single wall oven 30" and a 30" high speed oven. Trying to decide between Miele and Electrolux. In spite of looking at "specs" I can't find out how these two compare in cavity dimensions. Electrolux is easy to find these specs, but not for Miele. Anyone know about interior cavity dimensions of the Miele? Any other comparisons also welcome as this search is making me crazy.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 4:36PM
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We went through a very similar decision - we had (and loved) Miele MasterChef Speed Oven, Miele Microwave and Warming Oven. We remodeled and tore out the ancient in-island Chambers electric oven so we needed a 2nd oven (to our beloved speed oven.)

We had a hard time justifying the retail price of the Miele over the Electrolux as the Elux is so well liked on GW. And, the MasterChef is even more $ than the Chef model (as you know).

However, the dealer (whom we like) had a floor model 30" Chef that we got for an extremely good deal so Miele was the way we went - made it easy.

To your questions:
Europa and Classic is simply a difference in the handles
MasterChef does get you rotisserie
MasterChef also gets you Auto Roast which many here like.
I believe I read somewhere that the 30" Elux is a little larger than the 30" Mieles

All that being said, my DW LOVES the Miele Chef oven:

1) Everything she has made in it has come out wonderfully (I can attest)
2) It (of course) has the wonderful fingerprint resistant stainless which I think is a Miele exclusive and DW LOVES this feature.
3) It matches our other Miele appliances (although not a big deal - now that we have it - it is pretty cool).
4) We did not like (at all) the look of the Elux Wave Touch with the curved handle - this did not seem to bring the "high scale" look we were trying to achieve in our remodel. And, the Miele handles are straight - which means the oven would look different in that manner as well. So, we were limited to the Elux Icon Professional (with a straight handle) at around $2,700. We purchased our (floor model) Miele Chef for less than that so it became a "no brainer" for us.
5) When it is cooking away at 400 degrees it is very quiet and the cabinet sides are not warm at all - the front is also not very warm - can easily touch - it is a high quality unit.

DW figured out a little trick since we have the MasterChef speed oven - if DW is uncertain what baking mode to use in the chef oven (this is our first convection oven) she goes to the MasterChef menu on the speed oven and figures it out and then uses that mode in the Chef oven - kinda cool.

In our remodel the new oven has been placed on the opposite side of the kitchen from the other Miele appliances so we could have (more easily) lived with another brand oven. However, we are just as happy with the new Miele oven as we are with the Speed Oven.

Best of luck - I really think the ELux Icon Professional would be a fantastic oven too - another issue - we could not find an Icon Professional in the entire Denver Metro area that we could even go to look at (I think for the $1,000 difference most people go with the standard ELux oven).

Best of luck!

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 7:44PM
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No idea which ovens have which features. My Master Chefs has autoroast. So convenient not to preheat, reliable and great results. Chicken done on autoroast or the rotisserie is as good as it gets. I also like the reliability of the probe for big cuts that you don't want to stab all over with the thermapen.

I do roast directly on the rack with the drip pan below. Rack needs cleaning on both sides and I've taken to using Astonish on it, or Barkeeper's Friend. They say there is some kind of coating on the racks but mine are so old by now I figure it's long gone.

With MasterChef, it can be difficult to take in the combination heats and the fancy dances the various settings do. However, I don't know of another oven where you can put a chicken right on the oven rack without preheating and have it come out 75 minutes later perfectly cooked.

But as Gary said on another thread (I paraphrase here) "I'm old and I just want bake." Perfectly valid and in that case there are other choices.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 8:05AM
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thank you for all the info!
question: what do you think of warming drawer as opposed to a second oven? how much/what uses do you use it for?
thank you!

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 2:23PM
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Does the Elux have "true euro convection" similar to the miele? how do the convection baking systems differ?

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 2:33PM
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