Yet another "choosing a gas range" posting & questions

preemiemom0703January 7, 2013

Not to beat a dead horse, folks, but I have been lurking and reading everything I can about gas "pro-style" and regular ranges. I've decided that I want nothing with a "mother board" in it! And a self-cleaning function is not necessary. I would appreciate feedback if you own one of the ranges I'm looking at - especially the NXR and American Performer - as GW is the only place I've been able to find reviews on those brands.

The parameters I'm working within require a 30" range with an OTR MW (400 cfm). The cutout between my cabinets looks to be about 30 1/4" - MAYBE a millimeter or 2 more. My kitchen is small and a microwave is necessary for us. OTR is our only option there. I'd like to spend $3000 or less but am willing to go as high as $4000. Prior to a recent move, I was cooking on a Dacor dual-fuel 30" convection oven. It wasn't perfect, it had even had a few problems and at the time I swore I'd buy a Viking next. (That was before I started reading about them!) But the thing cooked like a DREAM compared to what came with this house. (A GE electric smooth-top nightmare.)

1.) NXR - I love the price, the Costco return policy, the fact that it is very basic, the ability to manually light the burners in the event of loss of power (I'm in Missouri - snow, tornadoes, etc.). As of right now, this is my #1 choice.

My concerns are that as far as I can tell, the longest one has been in use is about 2 years? It seems the chipping of the interior seems to have been resolved. Has anyone who purchased their NXR in 2012 had an issue with it? Also, for those who purchased in 2012, have you had any problems with the 2 types of stainless steel? I was watching a Youtube video and saw that the top is not one solid piece, but different pieces put together. Do the "seams" make it difficult to clean? Seems like you could run a toothpick along them and get any gunk out. Sure wish I could see one in person before pulling the trigger.

2.) Bluestar - I love, love, love the look of the burners. (I'm not much of a baker.) The specs put it at 29.875 inches in width, so whether or not it will fit my cut-out is a non-issue. It works without power. The price is above that $3000 and I'm not sure how to quantify how much better it is than the NXR. We have only one Blue Star dealer in my area and they currently don't have any on the floor. Has the hot door issue been a problem for anyone? I'm not running my oven at 500-degrees... But I don't want to keep my children away from the oven. I want them to learn how to cook. The Bluestar is pretty much neck and neck with the NXR.

3.) American Performer - Honestly, I like the looks of this one but I can't find much information other than what I've seen here. Is there anything else I should know? The performer is now on the AR website and they have a few videos posted on Youtube. Like the NXR, I would have to have one shipped here sight-unseen unless I feel like a 4-5 hour drive to Iowa. AJ Madison has the Performer (4 open burners) at $3300 and the Cuisine (5 sealed burners) at $3360. I'd love any additional input you might have. Again, it seems to be just about as "new" as the NXR.

4.) Five Star - Does anyone own one of these?

Also considered (but currently ruled out):
Bertazzoni - I just can't wrap my head around this one. One minute I'll really be considering it and the next I'm marking it off my list. I love the fact that it doesn't cycle, I'm not opposed to the 4 different burner sizes (but don't love it, either), I love the 5 rack positions (my Dacor had that), but the oven temp only goes as low as 275. The specs may rule it out for me. I read something about being unforgiving when it came to gas/electric placement.

I swore I wouldn't own another Dacor but maybe with time I'm forgetting the pain. Plus I purchased mine in 2002 so maybe quality slipped after that. I did read (somewhere) there is now a 3-year warranty. The only Dacors I would consider are the Distinctive DR30GS. I'd love to hear from any current owners of this model.

Thanks in advance for answering the same questions YET AGAIN! Due in large part to comments, advice, opinions and great information I've read here and Chowhound, I've ruled out quite a few options. I'm thrilled to have it narrowed down.


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In review, I said I'd like to spend $3000 or less. I would like to amend that by saying I'd like to spend less then $4000.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2013 at 4:03PM
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Given your parameter of an OTR Microwave, the only possibility from your list is the NXR. The other ranges you've listed are too high-powered for that microwave (actually, I am not sure about the Bertazonni's btu's, so maybe that would be OK). Ranges like the Bluestar and American have high btu's which will likely melt the MW's bottom, or, at best, fry the microwave's electronics. Some of those ranges may have specific instructions prohibiting an OTR MW, and if that's the case, you likely won't have your warranty.

I know you said the OTR MW is a must, but STILL. Would you consider switching it out for a hood? I hated my OTR MW, and couldn't wait to get rid of it. There's wasn't one thing I liked about it. Even the space savings wasn't that great since all the problems of the awkward position over the range trumped any space savings.

This post was edited by akchicago on Mon, Jan 7, 13 at 20:08

    Bookmark   January 7, 2013 at 8:03PM
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We too are shopping, and I have considered many of the same ranges. I haven't seen a NXR or Five Star. I've seen the Bluestar and both of the American Range models you are referring to. I like the American Range, and it is ahead of Bluestar on our list because I too have concerns about the door heat on the Bluestar (there was another post here just last week from someone who had gotten hers replaced, and the door is still hot). I really question whether I would need all of the high heat from the Performer's 25K burners, but I do like the idea of the open burner. I talked several times to the AR rep for our area, and he said if he were buying he'd buy the Heritage (the one that I think is more money than you want to spend). I've seen the Bertazzoni and really do like the look and might consider it.

Is there any other place at all you could put a microwave? We are on vacation now, and the place we are has the microwave on a shelf in a pantry.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2013 at 9:28PM
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Ooh! MW on a shelf in the pantry! I hadn't thought of that! We do have a step in pantry and it does have an outlet already in it! When our last microwave died, we tried living without one. You know what we use it for? Warming my son's blended "tubey food" (he has a feeding tube), reheating our coffee, rewarming dinner if I can't get it all coordinated, and hot dogs. And we STILL couldn't live without one! LOL. We could certainly stick a counter model in the pantry.

@needinfo1 - Did the AR rep say why he'd choose the Heritage over the Performer or Cuisine? $4000 is what I've set as the max on my budget.

At this point, I'll start looking at some range hoods and pricing those. It's very hard to make an "informed" choice when you can't see all of your options in person. I almost feel as if I'm throwing a dart at a moving target!

    Bookmark   January 7, 2013 at 10:59PM
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Glad to help you out with the microwave idea. For what you use it for, it is a cheap solution and will allow you to have a hood option.

I called AR looking for a place to see their products. They are the ones who gave me the contact info for the local rep. Try doing the same.

The rep didn't say why he'd choose the Heritage, but I think it might have been the feature set and the fact that he didn't feel many people really need all of the heat from the 25K burners.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2013 at 11:32PM
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1. All of your questions about the NXRs have been discussed and thrashed out recently in NXR and OTR threads. Some of the NXR threads are so long that maybe the answers do get lost in them. Also, the GW search engine sometimes falls down on the job. Try Googling on "NXR range + (THS or Gardenweb)" and you'll probably find more threads.

2. FYI NXRs have been in use since late in 2008.

3. Reports of chipping and flaking of the NXR oven finish have been rare and seem to have occurred with a few of the NRG and some of DRGB models sold in 2009-2010. Some of the reports are multiple postings in different forums by the same person. You've seen Nunyabiz researched this a couple of years ago and found that most of the folks reported that NXR fixed the problem or replaced their stoves? At one point last summer, I found a you-tube video which reported an uncorrected problem with chips in the oven finish. I also ran across numbers of postings about Wolf having had a similar and more widespread problem with the similar finish used in their 2006-2009 stoves and wall ovens. Made me wonder if Wolf and NXR were sourcing the coating from the same manufacturer. I did not find an answer to that question but the problem seems to have gone away for both Wolf and NXR. Finally, to ease the worries about this issue, you can buy from Costco online. If you get a lemon, take the stove back to Costco and get a different one. Easy for me to say, having access to a refrigerator dolly and owning pick-up in which to haul the thing back to the local Costco. Doesn't everybody with an old house need an an old pickup? ;=)

3. Regarding the "two kinds of stainless," I assume you are asking if any of us who bought a DRGB model since 2009 have seen rusting of the oven door and side panels which are made of 430 stainless rather than the 304 stainless used for the top parts. Seems to me that it would be pretty difficult to get 430 stainless to rust in an indoor kitchen but I suppose it is theoretically possible. I did not find any reports of it happening when I researched the issue before buying my NXR in August. Personally, I like the 430 because it seems to be more scratch resistant than the 304 and because it will hold a magnet (which allows me to slap my Taylor remote probe thermometer unit on the door when baking bread or roasting meat/poultry.)

4. There are numbers of posts about cleaning the NXR top. The seams not being a problem. They are mostly covered by the burner grates, so stuff does not build up in them. I clean my stove top often and it is mostly a a matter of spritzing with Windex and wiping with a microfiber cloth. Rather like cleaning a smoothtop (except for having to remove the grates first.) I have had my NXR for five months now. I cook every day. I host regular Sunday dinners. I put on four large events here over the holidays. I am a messy cook. But, I have never needed to run a toothpick or use a toothbrush on the seams.

6. There really is not much info on the American Range Performers yet.

7. There are several recent threads here on Bertazzoni ranges. If they do not turn up in the GW search engine, try Googling and use both "Bertazzoni" and "Berta" as search terms. Also, you might look at the IKEA stoves.

8. There have been at least three recent threads discussing Blue Stars and oven door heat. Again, try Googling if they aren't turning up with the GW search engine.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Tue, Jan 8, 13 at 0:25

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 12:14AM
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Re the mircowave shelf versus the OTR:

I agree that the MW shelf is a better idea if you have the space to do it. (Another possibility is hanging the MW from a cabinet, though this is not always feasible or convenient in small kitchens.)

Range hoods do a better job of venting and can provide significantly more CFMs, and tend to have longer lives than many MWs. Moving the MW away from the stove can ease traffic at the stove (avoiding having to reach over active pots to get at the MW and being easier to use with bowls of hot stuff.) The non-OTR MWs are much less expensive to buy and to replace than OTRs. Far easier to replace the one on a shelf and you don't have to do without a range hood in the interim.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 12:23AM
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I am starting to make myself crazy. I think I have read just about every thread on here (as well as Chowhound, a bread website, and others). I had decided on the NXR then spent the entire night last night dreaming about the Berta! I think, though, the NXR is the right choice for the way we cook. The slot between cabinets is a scosh over 30", so hopefully we won't have a problem putting it in. Right now the counter tops are laminate, so I can always pull off the abutting interior strips (if that makes sense) to get another millimeter or two.

Just a few more questions: We'll be purchasing from Costco. Does Costco offer extended service warranties? Or can I buy one from a 3rd party? I realize that I can return it to Costco but in the event that something breaks, I may just prefer to have it repaired.

Does anyone pressure cook or can on their NXR? (Or Berta?) I can extensively in the summer and I think those 15,000 burners would be fabulous. If anyone has advice on how it performs, I'd love to read it.

We also make a lot of large batches of marinara, chicken stock, beef stock, etc. (6 to 8 qt pots) that require long, gentle simmers. Does anyone use a simmer plate for things like that? Will a generic simmer plate work? My Dacor had Dacor-specific simmer plates (Dacor was REALLY good at getting you to spend on their accessories!)...

Hubby immediately pooh-poohed the idea of putting the microwave in the pantry and replacing the OTR MW with a hood. It will take time and perseverance, but I'll win in the end. :) I'll just have to convince him that the OTR looks silly over such a fantastic range and somehow tie that in to his "method-of-excess" philosophy. I've already figured out exactly where the counter microwave will go in the pantry and which shelf will have to come out!

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 1:37PM
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I too was just about to buy the NXR when I was halted by the door temperature issue. ADCO (the company that manages the NXR warranties says the NXR door heat gets up to 150-160 degrees) Try putting your hand on a stainless steel pan that is 150 degrees. It's darn hot. That was a deal breaker for us. I'm back at square one.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 2:30PM
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I have put my bare cheek on my NXR door after cooking at 400 degrees for a couple hours so either the older models are A LOT cooler or I call BS on the hot door thing.

Mine hardly gets "warm" let alone hot, except for that deep crack that is in between the bottom of the door and top of the kick plate, if you stick your finger all the way to the back of that its "hot".

If 150 degrees is a deal breaker then you got probably 1 or 2 ovens that claim to have "cool doors" because of some fan unit, or get a microwave.
I seriously doubt our door gets more than 130, unless I put the oven on 500 for several hours but who does that.
and that is probably what ADCO means if they say "up to" 150

Normal cooking, 350-400 for under 3 hours probably never sees 130 tops.

So there is no real "temperature issue".

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 5:10PM
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I was advised by someone on Chowhound to also ask my question here:
I am remodeling my kitchen and after ordering and taking delivery of an electric 30" freestanding stove/oven, I've decided to get what I really want, a gas stove. Unfortunately, I don't have natural gas available where I live so it will have to be propane. I just returned from the appliance store where I have to purchase the stove from (because I'm returning the electric one to them) and I need some advice.
I am a retired chef and a CIA graduate & I've cooked at many fine restaurants. I cook dinner most days for my wife and myself and we entertain occasionally.I appreciate good equipment but wonder what you get for your money when you buy a "professional" style range other than impressing your friends. I know they are more solidly built but do they function any better and are they more reliable? I looked at a non professional GE model PGB930SETSS which costs around $1,800.00. It has all the features I'm looking for, one piece continuous grate, self cleaning gas convection over, warmer draw and a powerful main burner rated @ 17,000 BTU using propane. My limited experience using a propane stove is that the are not as hot as natural gas. They also have several professional style ranges priced at $3,500.00 and up. What am I getting in improved function for the extra $2K or much more? I pretty much have an unlimited budget for this stove but I need to see what value the extra cost brings. I appreciate your feeback!

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 6:05PM
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You can buy an NXR for $2000 or less which is definitely better than that GE.
Has everything you need, 4 15,000btu burners, super low simmer, nice infrared broiler, convection oven, solid racks and grates, all stainless top to bottom.
Very minimal electronics to go bad.
Top quality parts from Germany, Italy, Australia, and USA, just assembled in China.

But if you have an "Unlimited Budget" then what you get for $2000 is of no concern.
I would probably opt for a custom made old style stove.
Something like this for about $12,000

Kitchen design by Charleston Interior Designer Linda McDougald Design : Postcard from Paris Home

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 8:16PM
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>>>"I think, though, the NXR is the right choice for the way we cook. The slot between cabinets is a scosh over 30", so hopefully we won't have a problem putting it in."Check those measurements. The NXR is supposed to be a true 30" wide as opposed to the standard 29 7/8. (My NXR is actually measures 29 15/16" but things can bulge and vary.) A standard cutout is supposed to be 30 1/8." Sometimes a skosh more sometimes a skosh less. If the cutouts are exactly straight and exactly 30 1/8, (or a bit wider, you can probably slide that NXR into place. That's what Nunya did as you can see from the NXR photos he has posted. I suggest you cutting a piece of 2x4 lumber to exactly 30" (ends squared), put a small level on it and trying sliding it into the space.

>>>"Does Costco offer extended service warranties?"Not on stoves. AFAIK, Costco only sells extended warranties for computers and electronics.

>>>" can I buy one from a 3rd party?"Yes. I've seen some posters here speak favorably of SquareTrade which is an insurance product. I have no experience with it, myself.

For me, the NXR looks to be as simple and durable as the old Chambers and O'Keefe&Merritts. As far as I could tell, anything that could break or fail is something I can diagnose and replace myself using parts available from the local appliance parts warehouses. Even if I decided to pay somebody to do it for me, it would likely cost less than the extended warranty. That was my thinking, in any event.

>>>Does anyone pressure cook or can on their NXR?"Sure. I use a 6 quart pressure cooker frequently for making meals. I've got two large (20 quart+ kettles) for waterbaths and cooking down mass quantities of produce. We ran a big pressure can last fall, too. What is it you want to know?

Maybe this will answer your questions? The stove is very strong as are the burner grates, so no problem bearing the weight of large and heavy pots. The NXR burners will heat the big kettles and stockpots (say 12 to 14 inch diameter pots) faster than smaller stockpots (say, 8-inch diamter 12 quart pots.) Have you seen my posting about taking 22 minutes to boil 6 quarts of water in an 8-inch diameter stockpot but barely 14 minutes to do so in a 13-inch diameter kettle?

Also, the burners are on 11-inch centers front to back, and 18-inch centers side to side, which gives you a lot of room for large pots. This is typical for so-called pro-style stove layouts (such as on Blue Stars, Wolf, DCS, etc.) Major brand gas stoves are usually more like 9 inch centers front to back. What this means is that you can put two large canning kettles on the back while making and make dinner two large pans in front.

The 15k btu-hr burners are not as quick as larger burners to boil very large quantities of water. Some people go to the back yard and use camping cookstoves for canning. Some of those have 30k btu-hr burners.

I've had no trouble whatever using the burners to, say, cook down 30 pounds of apples into sauce (or apple butter) without burning anything.

>>>"We also make a lot of large batches of marinara, chicken stock, beef stock, etc. (6 to 8 qt pots) that require long, gentle simmers. Does anyone use a simmer plate for things like that?"No problem with simmering on the NXR. No need for a simmer plate. The NXR burners (as can those from Wolk, DCS, Blue-Star and others) go so low you can melt chocolate on a paper plate. I just made 10 quarts of turkey stock which simmered for something like 12 hours. Defatted it in the backyard (9F and a foot of snow helps cool things pretty well). Then turned it to a minestrone that simmered for about 4 hours (with things cooking in stages and getting combined at the end.)

I have melted and held chocolate for three hours without naything seizing or scorching. No need for a simmer plate or a double boiler/bain marie.

This is pretty typical for a lot of the pro-style stoves as well as for many major brand stoves, as well. I could do the same simmering on my recently deceased former stove, a GE Profile dual fuel.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 8:30PM
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In the course of this recent thread, there was a discussion of the external heat levels on NXR oven doors and sides:

We found that nothing got hot enough to burn but there were several places where the temperature was enough to be uncomfortable on the DRGB models (Nunya has one of the older NRG models). As I reported, the oven glass was on in the 90F range. There were a couple of places --- such as the center of the front kick panel (behind which is the ignitor-glowplug for the bottom oven burner), the bottom edge of the oven door --- where I saw temps go as high as 145F after extended heating. The stove sides next to the oven door opening got up to the middle 130F range. There are a couple of places --- such as the slots immediately above and below the oven door --- where the back would get much hotter. These are places where no sensible person would even consider poking fingers (no more than grabbing a hot oven rack, say). Might be a concern if you have toddlers roaming around the kitchen. (This will be a problem with just about any pro-style AG stove, btw.) Other than that, there is no need to worry about roasting small dogs and pet cats who might bump against the stove. BTW, the oven door handle never got warmer than room temp even during a marathon pizza and flat-bread session where the oven ran at 500F for several hours.

I do not know where the Adco rep got the 160F figure from. I suspect it might have been during burn-in of a new stove. When you get an all gas (AG) stove, most manufacturers recommend an oven burn-in. NXR certainly does. During burn-in, my stove got very hot, I suspect that the burn-in helped to seat insulation and the oven-door gasket because it has never been close to that hot since then.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 8:48PM
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I just bought a floor model wolf 30 inch AG for below 4 you could also go with a capital 30 w/ precision burners less than 4000. I really like the simple design of the Wolf but those are two choices that offer cooler doors.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 8:52PM
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I'm so with you on the head spinning! But I haven't even ruled out induction yet, so I can't even narrow it to just gas!

I was leaning heavily towards the Berta but the one I want (dual fuel, black) is close to $10k (on AJ Madison anyway). My contractor can get me a 48 in Wolf range for $8,200. I just think the Berta is beautiful and unique and not so much a "name brand" as the Wolf.

Now also considering electrolux, and just saw a Verona on AJ Madison that I'm intrigued by (mostly because of the price) but can't really find much info on GW about Verona. I'll probably end up with a Wolf or Berta, and if the price can be right I'd really prefer the Berta!

Good luck, keep us posted!

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 8:56PM
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Wait, I just read the Berta manual and it says it goes from 100 degrees? What am I missing? EVeryone says that its lowest temp is 275?

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 8:58PM
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Let me suggest several things to help you answer your own questions.

First, try formulating some searches and use the forum search here (the one at the bottom of the page, not the one at the top.) Your questions are ones that have been discussed and debated extensively over the years here and you may find a lot of your questions may be answered in other threads. For example, there are several recent threads about whether anybody regrets buying a pro-style range, whether prot-style ranges are "worth it" and etc.

Second, I suggest you make a separate post. Your questions are pretty far down in this discussion and are likely to get overlooked by the many others with info and opinions on the subjects you raise.

Third, you might look at some of the open-burner/dealed burner debates here.

Fourth, if you are interested in pro-style stoves, bear in mind that, as with cars, there is much in the eye of the holder. Sometimes, "pro-style" is just code for premium priced luxury goods. Sometimes, the layout and generally higher-heat burners provide advantages. In print, it can be hard to know what will matter to you. Therefore, I suggest you check around the cities in your area for dealers who may have demonstration kitchens where you could try some of the stoves and see if the designs really matter to you.

Finally, do you have any experience with magnetic induction? In your situation, I might be inclined to go with magnetic induction stoves rather than hassling with running propane lines and doing conversions. There are numbers of very informative threads about induction.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 9:14PM
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Who was it that swapped a dual fuel for the NXR? I have a question regarding specs/electricity. Pulling out our electric range to measure (again) tonight, it dawned on me that we a 220V outlet. The NXR is 120V. Did anyone run into this issue? What did it take to get your outlet converted?

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 9:49PM
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Thank you JW! The information about the process of burn-in makes sense. All of your posts I've read have been very helpful, really appreciate your contributions.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 9:51PM
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@Kitten - I know what you mean! I thought (briefly!) about looking at induction. But my Christmas present from hubby was the running of the gas line. :) Plus we really need to be able to light burners in the event of a power outage for my son's food.

Hopefully someone can answer my question about the 220V already in place and how to swap it (adapt it?) for the 120V NXR. Otherwise, it's back to the drawing board.


    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 10:53PM
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I'm the one who replaced a GE dual fuel with an NXR. What I've done is plug the range into a spare 120v outlet next to the stove. I haven't had time yet, but I'm just going to drop a line down the inside of the wall from the rangehood and put another 120v outlet behind the stove. (Neither the stove nor the rangehood pull much power so this will not be a problem.) Replacing the the 220v line would be a bit more complicated depending on where the cables run and where your panel is located. My panel is in the basement almost directly beneath the stove. If I were were going to replace the 220v circuit, I might swap out the 220v breaker for a couple of 120v breakers, pull the 6 guage Romex, run a 12 guage Romex line in its place and cut a 120v outlet into the wall behind the stove. If it were hard to get at the 220v cable, I might instead take the existing 6 guage Romex cable into a sub-panel and then run a 120v line to an outlet. In theory, instead of making a sub-panel, you might take the 4-wire 220v cable (assuming you have that instead of three wire) and take one hot lead to create a 120v connection, but that probably would not meet code ad is not something I'd recommend.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 11:42PM
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Looks like I'm going to have to call an electrician! I spent some time today researching dual fuels (at hubby's request) and the three ranges I came across within our price range were Bosch (I just don't like the looks of those), Viking D3 and Dacor Distinctive. All three have far more electronics than I want to worry about. And that beautiful Wolf dual fuel is way, way beyond our price point.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2013 at 3:44PM
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Have you had an OTR microwave before? In addition to the heat and lack of venting power mentioned already, when trying to cook under them at friends' homes, they've made me claustrophobic...So deep and right in front of my face, and also, they block access to (like for stirring) and views into, particularly, larger pans on the back burners. After those couple of experiences, I'd find a place ANYwhere else to put the microwave in order to have a decent, up-out-of-the-way hood. :-)

    Bookmark   January 9, 2013 at 4:24PM
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Preemiemom, just a thought - have you checked with dealers and/or contractors regarding range prices? Everywhere I looked online for the black dual fuel Berta, it was going to run me close to $10k. I went to the appliance store today and he quoted me just over $7k! Also, this same dealer quoted me $13k for the Wolf range I am considering, but my contractor gets a big discount on Wolf and can get it for me for $8,200!

My point being, despite claims of prices that "are what they are" (ie wolf/subzero), there is definitely some wiggle room for contractors with pull (those who buy in high volume). Good luck!

I think I've ruled out induction too, as I really really want a griddle. :)

    Bookmark   January 9, 2013 at 6:01PM
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JWVideo. I understand that the range hood and control power for the stove don't draw much current. In fact I wired my range hood and a receptacle behind the stove on the same circuit but just so no everyone understands, the NEC code requires the range hood is on a dedicated circuit. The reason is probably because many people remove the undercabinet mount hoods and replace them with OTR microwaves. Just an FYI and only an issue if you need an inspection.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2013 at 8:24PM
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We are adding an outdoor covered cabana to our home. We are putting in an outdoor kitchen and want to put a gas range in the area. Does anyone have experience with a range in a partially enclosed space?

    Bookmark   January 9, 2013 at 9:20PM
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@Skemmerly - I would start a new thread asking about the gas range in your outdoor kitchen. Sounds heavenly to me.

@rhome - We had an OTR MW over our Dacor at our old house. It didn't seem claustrophobic to me, but the one here does. Then again, I can't stand cooking on our current range, so that might have something to do with it! :)

@Kitten - I'm having to start over looking at dual fuels. And I love, love, love the Wolf. I'll check around for a deal but realistically, it's probably not in our budget. At least not if I want to get rid of this hideous glass-top electric range any time soon. And believe me, I do!

    Bookmark   January 10, 2013 at 10:39PM
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I believe the NEC rule requiring dedicated circuits is for rangehoods with a flexible cord and plug going to an outlet/receptacle but, AFAIK, does not apply when the rangehood is hardwired to a dedicated circuit. The reason for the rule on plug-ins is exactly what you described. I think I can drop a line down the wall and add a plug behind the stove because my rangehood is hardwired. If you have access to the code and want to check this, my notes from when I installed my range hood refer to NEC section 422.16(B). I think the same rule applies to other high-power appliances which is why instructions for plug-in appliances such as refrigerators, dishwashers and garbage disposals all say to put their outlets on dedicated circuits.


Is your existing OTR plugged into an outlet or hardwired in place? If it is, then you can have the MW in the pantry and have an electrician hardwire a rangehood and drop a line for a 120v outlet behind the stove. (You leave the 240v outlet in place in case somebody later wants to put in a dual fuel, standard electric or induction stove.) If the OTR is plugged-in, then the electrician can remove the outlet and convert it to a junction box by capping the outlet box and proceed as above.

Of course, as you note, getting a dual fuel stove avoids these problems. As would induction.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Fri, Jan 11, 13 at 11:58

    Bookmark   January 11, 2013 at 11:46AM
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>>>"Wait, I just read the Berta manual and it says it goes from 100 degrees? What am I missing? EVeryone says that its lowest temp is 275?"I have not seen the Berta manual but I wonder if there might not be some confusion between the specs for the stove-top burner simmer temps (which are supposed to go as low as 100F) with the oven temps (which are generally reported as not running below 275F).

    Bookmark   January 11, 2013 at 12:10PM
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@JW - The MW is plugged into an outlet in a cabinet above it. I'll definitely be calling an electrician. (Hubby's pushing for dual fuel, but I want the NXR. I'm currently putting together all of the research. I'm pretty sure he'll come around to my way of thinking. Wink.)

    Bookmark   January 11, 2013 at 12:15PM
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I can only comment on the Bluestar RNB, which seems not to be a front-runner for you. But as you ask about the hot doors . . . it just has not been any sort of problem for us. The door gets very warm under certain conditions, and you might be surprised if you were to fall against it with palms flat. Surprised, but not injured at all -- our door just doesn't get hot enough to burn somebody. Moreover, if I'm baking, or roasting (or braising, etc.) while working at the range, I'm not especially aware of heat coming through the door at all. And the oven door handle stays just fine -- don't need a potholder to open the door at all.

Our two younger kids had just turned 9 when we bought the range and I'd had similar questions, and had them resolved before we bought place our order. They've never had problems getting getting burnt, and neither has our small dog. Of course other kids may be younger, and things happen, but I don't see a danger from the door itself. With our range, a little kid could fall against the glass door, or poke it with a finger while looking at cookies, and not be injured at all. Startled, perhaps, but not injured. The far more significant risk seems to me to be common to any range at all: little kids need to know that a stove is not a toy, but something to be careful about. They need to know that they oughtn't to go crashing into it or leap up and grab things. They need to know that whether you buy a BS, or CC, or NXR, or GE, or a 20 year-old whirlpool from a garage sale. An open flame is an open flame; a hot coil is a hot coil; and a pot full of boiling water can scald anybody.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2013 at 9:17PM
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Ack . . . just read my post and hope you enjoy whatever range you buy more than you enjoy stumbling through all my typos.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2013 at 9:20PM
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The specs for the Bertazzoni that say the oven goes down to 100 degrees are the specs for the electric oven, not the gas.

I walked in on a Bluestar demonstration at a local appliance store this weekend. I noticed that the seal on the oven door did not go all the way around and was open on the bottom. I asked if heat was going to escape from there and the rep told me that the oven door would get hot. I was more concerned about the oven maintaining temperature with that seal, as well as heat escaping into the kitchen.

Floor models for the all-gas Wolf may still be out there with good discounts. I found a 30 inch model on Friday for $3,000.00.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 11:02AM
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IIRC, an OTR microwave needs to be on its own circuit. And I think the same holds true with a gas range. The line for the old OTR can be repurposed for a hood without too much problem (remove old receptacle, replace with plate with a hole in it for the vent cable). The old 220v circuit might be reusable, depending on its age. If it is 4-wire (red,black,white,ground), then I think it can be 120v at the panel by tying off the red and changing the breaker. If it is 3-wire, then only the breaker needs to change and the red wire relabeled to white for neutral.

If you do canning, you will bless the day you put a decent (600-700cfm) hood above that stove.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 12:53PM
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Oven-door gasket designs differ, but it is pretty common to have a gap at the bottom. My two previous GE stoves had that design. First time I replaced an oven door gasket several decades ago, it really puzzled me that there was a gap. But the doors stayed relatively cool nonetheless. A bigger factor in external heat on oven doors is how well the door venting works. Look at almost any residential range's oven door. On the bottom will be a row of vent holes. There will be a corresponding row on the top or on the outer face of the door above the handle. That seems to be the primary means of regulating the oven door's exterior temps.


I do think it is a good idea to put a big MW like an OTR on a dedicated circuit because of the big power draw. But, as I said above, the NEC only requires it when the OTR is plugged into an an outlet. It does not require it for a hardwired connection, Still, I think you make a good point that rangehoods are preferable and can easily be plugged into an existing OTR outlet.

Re-using that 220v cable may be possible, but the difficulty for me is that my existing 4-wire 220v cable is 6 gauge. Feed that into a 120v outlet box and I don't think there would be room for an outlet. :>)

I second what you said about canning and a good range hood.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 15:40

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 3:38PM
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I used GardenWeb forums extensively while designing my kitchen renovation and am posting my experience to help others decide. After much research I went with the American Range Heritage ARR-304. It has been delivered and is connected temporarily while I wait for the accessory Island Back, which has been delayed twice, now "expected" to ship on June 21st. (Range and two accessories were ordered on April 9th; range and one accessory were delivered on April 29th.)

Range is fully working although I have only been using it for two weeks. The simmer setting seems fine but moving up from there is very quick; it should have a slower transition from simmer to full.

On a separate note, the installation instructions do NOT address a full island install, with the range in an open surface and not against a wall. After three tries I got confusing answers from their service department; a subsequent email to sales went unanswered.

Given my limited use thus far, I am happy with the range. I am still waiting for the critical part, Island Back, that is delaying my renovation; seriously disappointed in American Range service support.


    Bookmark   June 11, 2013 at 5:19PM
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We bought a DCS 36" all LP gas convection range and love it. The simmer setting is perfect, heavy grates. We moved to the country and did extensive remodeling No bells and whistles but more than happy, hindsight we should have gotten the 30" because we just don't entertain like we thought we would and the kids have moved, other than that, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger again. It's impressive when people DO come over though. Lol

    Bookmark   July 18, 2013 at 9:11AM
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