Double Convection Oven Selection

duveenJanuary 15, 2013

My wife and I are in the planning stages of a kitchen remodel. This board was instrumental in helping my sister plan her kitchen remodel and she suggested it to me. What a find! I have learned so much.

We have settled on a 36" six-burner range top by Wolf. Now, we are focusing on the choice of a 30" double wall oven. We have remodeling bids that will allow us to spend either more on appliances and less on everything else or the reverse. Part of that equation will be the money devoted to our ovens. Here are our options as we see them.

First, we can go big, choosing we think between Wolf and Thermador. Wolf's reputation for the quality of both product and service is sterling and warranty is three years. Thermador is a respected brand, but less so it seems, and their warranty is two years.

Double Convection:
Wolf L-Series DO30F/S, $6,800
Thermador Professional PODC302J, $6,000
Thermador Masterpiece MED302JP, $5,300

Single Convection:
Wolf E-Series, DO30-2U/S, $5,900
Thermador Masterpiece ME302JP, $4,400

That is a pretty wide discrepancy in price between the top Wolf and the bottom Thermador. We would love to have double convection, but the second such oven would likely only be used a couple times a month at best. Has anyone had negative experiences with either the rotating control panel on the Wolf L-Series or the rotisserie on the Thermador Professional Series? (I know that the E-series had some shut-off issues that seem to have been resolved.) Getting the Professional Series Thermador for the E-Series Wolf price is terribly tempting! (I did just read in another thread that Wolf may be replacing the L-series with the M-series. This may allow for "current inventory" discounts on the L-series. I will check into this!)

Second, we can go middle-of-the-road, choosing between Bosch and Electrolux. On this board, Electrolux seems to have the better reputation of the two, but I have read good things and bad about both brands. Both share a one-year warranty.

Bosch 800-Series (Double Convection) HBL8650UC, $3,000
Electrolux w/Wave Touch(Single Convection) EW30EW65GS, $2,900

One big difference between both Bosch & Electrolux and Wolf & Thermador is that on the former brands, only the top oven is self-cleaning. On the latter brands, both ovens do so. After reading this board, I am pulled in both directions about whether it is wise to use this feature, although I certainly want to! And if I can, I want to be able to do so with both ovens all things being equal.

You all obviously are passionate about cooking and getting the most from your appliances. My wife and I love to cook and often cook together. We don not bake often, however. I would take any recommendations you have to offer, either between ovens within a price category or amongst all of the ovens listed. I have spent more mental energy about this oven selection than on the rest of decisions made thus far put together!

Finally, I have been so impressed by and grateful to those of you who returned to the board to post on your selections months or even years after they were installed. It has been great to get feedback from those "in the know." I promise to do the same. Thank you!

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mielefanUT

Have you looked at the Miele Double Oven H4894 BP2 $6,000

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele Double Oven

    Bookmark   January 15, 2013 at 1:57PM
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ginny20

I don't understand what you mean about the features of the Elux oven EW30EW65GS. I have it, the double wall oven with Wave Touch, right? It has convection in both ovens, and both ovens self-clean. I've run the self-clean in both of them more than once, and nothing bad has happened (yet...I don't want to tempt the fickle gods of electronics). You can only clean one oven at a time, is that what you meant? Both ovens on that model are exactly the same, with exactly the same capabilities (such as Perfect Turkey, bread proofing, keep warm, defrost, sabbath mode, probe...). For me, the Elux oven was the best value going. I've been very happy with it. If only it had french doors.

If I were going to spend close to $7000 on a wall oven, I'd choose the American Range double electric wall oven with french doors. It doesn't self-clean, but french doors are the best.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2013 at 12:00PM
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duveen

Ginny20, I must be mistaken about the self cleaning feature on the Electrolux. I thought only the top oven of the two was self cleaning. This is very good to know. Thank you for the information and for sharing your experiences with the oven.

I also looked at the American Range website, focusing on residential products, and only saw a single 30" gas wall oven. There are many ranges listed, but only the one oven. Maybe I am missing something.

I'm also looking at Miele ovens, MielefanUT.

Thank you!

Here is a link that might be useful: American Range Residential Products

    Bookmark   January 16, 2013 at 3:44PM
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ginny20

I was looking for ovens in mid 2011, so if it's not on their site they must not make one anymore. What a shame, though. They were one of the only companies making french doors.

I would definitely compare the gliding racks and interior measurements on the various models you're considering. Since I couldn't get french doors, I looked for one where the racks rolled out easily and relatively far, for optimal access. Maybe that will help you rank them.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2013 at 7:13PM
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duveen

We spent yesterday afternoon looking at appliances. Our oven decision has come down to Wolf and Bosch. We feel that these would fit us best; It just comes down to price point. We have a bit of time yet before we have to make a final decision and we'll get some bids in on a few more things, no doubt helping us make that choice. As long as we can afford it, the Wolf wins hands-down.

We looked further at dishwashers, too. In terms of configuration, we liked Bosch over Miele, but both make a nice machine. The dealer was pushing Asko models with similar prices, but with the sale of the company, I'm not sure what I would be getting. Kitchen Aid would be our first American choice -- and we've owned these before with positive results -- but all of their machines vent from the side. We are paying a small fortune for a cabinet shop to build our cabinets and I'm not sure if the moisture would warp or otherwise harm the drawers next to the KA washer. I'm going to speak with the cabinet folks this week. Do any of you have experience with this type of venting and wood next to it?

I swear remodeling a kitchen, two baths, and a laundry room is like planning a battle. We spent much of the rest of our day at a fixture design center going over toilets, sinks, faucets, shower heads... you name it. Our final hours were spent looking at gas fireplaces, wanting to take the opportunity to run new gas lines and install two of these in both the living room and the kitchen. I've spent less time planning surgery!

This board has made it all easier and, I hope, safer, however. Thanks!

    Bookmark   January 20, 2013 at 8:11AM
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pheasantfarmer

Not sure why the double ovens aren't on the American Range site but it does look like they make them.

Here is a link that might be useful: American Range double ovens

    Bookmark   January 20, 2013 at 9:09PM
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dodge59

"As long as we can afford it, the Wolf wins hands-down."

You best read some of the other posts here about Wolf Ovens, You may have your "Hands Down", but there's a pretty good chance they may have porcelain splinters in them!!(Are you trying to hide hands, cause of that)?

Gary

    Bookmark   January 20, 2013 at 9:49PM
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duveen

Hi, Gary,

While I have probably not read every Wolf-related posts on ovens, I have read dozens going back quite a few years. Many are glowing, but some describe problems ranging from simply annoying to truly unfortunate. Still, I see more glowing for Wolf than for any other brand on these boards -- it seems -- and fewer horror stories. And when problems arise, Wolf/SZ seems to almost invariably act quickly and with honor to fix the issues. And there are many posts about the company doing so after the warranty has expired -- one four years expired! I've read of no other company doing that. Our local dealers recounted the same thing of Wolf.

I know that if we are fortunate enough to purchase a particular oven from either Bosch or Wolf that runs perfectly for fifteen years, we'll be happy cooks. However, since there are also lemons in the world, Wolf's reputation for making lemonade is welcome. Of course, if we purchase the Bosch ovens, we will have almost $4,000 in our pockets with which to make any necessary repairs; That is nothing at which to sneeze!

Those are my two cents as a current non-owner of Wolf ovens, but as someone who has been pouring over material for months. I do appreciate your time and response, however.

So, too, do I appreciate the American Range link, PheasantFarmer.

    Bookmark   January 21, 2013 at 10:29AM
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dodge59

3 or 4 years ago, maybe more, many appliances manufacturers, Wolf, Electrolux, Fisher Paykall, etc etc had problems with the porcelain.

We have not seen any recent porcelain problems posted about ovens with the exception of Wolf. It appears a new problem, "May have Popped up" there.
One poster has had 3 Wolf ovens with the porcelain problem, (and the last one she was shipped) was "Claimed to be their most recent production", (Paraphrasing), now 3 or 4 posters have also posted with porcelain problems in the exact same area of the oven.

Might It be a good idea, to see "What's up" with this before making a decision? I'm sure it's a PITA to have to change out a wall oven, especially a double oven.

I hate to be the bearer of "Bad News", but I never assume a poster has read all or most of the current info available here in Garden Web, if a poster has read same, then it's just a little extra typing on my part, and is probably better than not offering the lastest info to posters here, Ya thinks?

Good luck with your pending decisions, duveen, I hope they work out as well as mine did!

Gary

    Bookmark   January 21, 2013 at 5:18PM
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moebus

If you're willing to spend that money, why aren't you looking at Gaggenau? Not for everyone, but clearly no problems. One caveat, you need some support in your geographic area to do it.

    Bookmark   January 21, 2013 at 11:14PM
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cj47_gw

With regard to the Wolf ovens and their porcelain, I believe Gary is talking about Rhome's recent experience. Hopefully she'll see this and chime in. Rhome is a heavy oven user--she's worn out more ovens than anyone else i know. :-) The OP mentioned that they do not bake that much, so I'm not sure they'd have much to worry about with the Wolf porcelain. I've attached a link to Rhome's blog, where she discusses the problem.

Personally, I own the Electrolux ovens. Mine get used several times per week, and we make homemade pizzas occasionally. I also bake bread, along with the normal family meals for 4. I've been very happy with them and have zero regrets. It was important to me that both ovens have convection--I wanted both ovens to operate the same, and that requirement figured prominently in my decision. That said, had the Wolf ovens fit into my budget, it would have been an easy decision to go with them instead.

Cj

Here is a link that might be useful: Rhome's Blog, discussing ovens

This post was edited by cj47 on Tue, Jan 22, 13 at 10:03

    Bookmark   January 22, 2013 at 9:37AM
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duveen

This if valuable information to have regarding the Wolf porcelain issue. Thank you!

I will do some specific searching for these posts. At first blush, however, I'm not sure how much it will affect our thinking. We are a low-carb household, so pizza will never be in those ovens. I would bet we use an oven every third day and use both ovens perhaps five times a month. It would be rare that our temps exceed 400 degrees. Cleaning, of course, would ramp up the temps considerably.

Thank you again for the info. We appreciate your time!

    Bookmark   January 22, 2013 at 11:45AM
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kalapointer

I have a Wolf double wall oven, the E series. It is wonderful at baking, however I just discovered the porcelain is chipping in the bottom front corners just as Rhome's has done. I am waiting to hear back from Wolf now. I don't use my oven but 2 or 3 times a week. I only cook for 2. I never have baked pizza in it so no high heat usage. Maybe 400 or 425 at the most and only for 30 minutes to bake pies. I have cleaned it twice and it is two and half years old.

    Bookmark   January 22, 2013 at 1:27PM
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duveen

Vexing news indeed. Thank you, Kalapointer, for the news on your temperature usage.

    Bookmark   January 22, 2013 at 1:31PM
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duveen

On a side note from ovens, as I mentioned above we are considering a Kitchen Aid dishwasher. I did some searching on the board regarding side-venting issues. As ever, I found helpful responses on this topic and wanted to link the thread here.

BTW, our closest Gaggenau dealer/service provider is two hours away. Seems too far to me. :-(

Here is a link that might be useful: Side-Venting KA Dishwasher Issues

    Bookmark   January 23, 2013 at 2:07PM
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Janice742

Please let me know what you decide. We are getting ready to replace our KA double wall oven. (problem with thermostat when using the clean cycle)

I'm looking at the Bosch 800 series as well.

    Bookmark   January 23, 2013 at 7:00PM
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duveen

I had a request for a follow-up regarding our oven selection. Happy to help.

We ultimately chose the Electrolux w/Wave Touch (EW30EW65GS). It has been installed about three months and we have been very pleased so far. The oven heats evenly and the easy-glide racks are lovely to have and seem very sturdy. The controls, if not exactly intuitive, are easy to learn and are nice looking. I like that they are "hidden" (e.g. go dark) when not in use. It keeps everything looking clean and neat. We have yet to use the heat probe or the self-cleaning function, so I cannot speak to those. We have baked, broiled, and dried fruit and have been very pleased with the results.

Two complaints -- minor though they may be -- are that: (1) the oven doesn't heat overly quickly; and (2) I find that the blue controls are hard to read from anything other than point blank range. The oven doesn't heat slowly; it just doesn't knock our socks off with its speed. Regarding the blue controls, that may be a function of my age more than the oven itself! I find colors that contrast a great deal from their background much easier to read and the blue-on-black just doesn't meet that standard. I wouldn't choose another oven over this one for that reason, but wanted to be forthcoming.

We chose this oven over the Wolf models based on the feedback we received regarding the issues that some had with chipping enamel and price. I didn't want to pay the latter and get the former! We do have a Wolf range top, however, and I wouldn't trade it for all of the tea in China!

Overall, we are very pleased. The unit seems well built. It is quiet, although makes more noise in convection mode of course, and stylish. I would recommend it to others at this point.

Good luck.

    Bookmark   September 3, 2013 at 5:03PM
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westsider40

Just for the record, the Bosch 800 mentioned here, has convection and self clean in both ovens. They also preheat very fast.

There are things I have yet to learn but that's my fault, I suppose.

    Bookmark   September 4, 2013 at 12:07AM
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westsider40

Just for the record, the Bosch 800 mentioned here, has convection and self clean in both ovens. They also preheat very fast.

There are things I have yet to learn but that's my fault, I suppose.

    Bookmark   September 4, 2013 at 12:08AM
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