So many questions - part II - Dessert/Tea Set

DLM2000February 26, 2010

I'm assuming tea set because there is a tea pot with straining holes inside the pot - gotta love my deductive reasoning.

The set is 12 cups and saucers, dessert size plates, tea pot, creamer, sugar. There is also one serving bowl and that's the piece that throws me but now I'm wondering if they aren't really a set. You'll see what I mean with the marks. If it was a cake plate, it would make sense in a dessert set but it's not large enough that it would serve 12 with any kind of dessert that would be in a bowl. I have little memory of this ever being used - not even sure if it came from my maternal or paternal grandmother but it was in my mom's china hutch and I know it was not hers originally - not her taste.

Couldn't find anything at first thinking the first letter was a K but finally found Hutschenreuther. Any ideas how I would find the pattern name? I'd like to get a sense of value, if it's collectible. I need to have a sale!

This is the cup and saucer and mark. This says Czechoslovakia but what I find on a search says either Germany or Bavaria - any thoughts? Is it possibly not a set even though they look identical in pattern? Is this mark something other than Hutschenreuther? I'm so confused.

This is the serving bowl and it's mark. It's the only piece with this mark, the rest are all marked like the cup.

And this is the teapot - I'm not going to post photos of every piece - you get the idea.

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DLM2000

Ah Hah! At least I'm sleuthing. Found this site. Still looking.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bohemian, Czechoslovakian & Ceský Porcelain Marks

    Bookmark   February 26, 2010 at 4:48PM
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sweeby

Very good -- You found it!

I don't think the bowl is the same, though it's certainly very similar. I've seen similar patterns (base with gold webbing or mottling) in various colors made by Hutschenreuther and Tirschenreuth and a few other Bohemian porcelain makers.

I'd like to know what that type of work is called. Is that what you're still looking for?

    Bookmark   February 26, 2010 at 7:09PM
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DLM2000

No, actually I didn't find it - the H & C is similar but not the same. And I can't find Hutschenreuther with a lion at all. so I'll take anything - suggestions where to look, specific information about the type of work, wild guesses, even! Make up a story for me - I sure won't know!

Here is a link that might be useful:

    Bookmark   February 26, 2010 at 11:00PM
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sunnyca_gw

Hutschenreuther- Made in Germany, hard paste, Est.1864 Lorenz Hutschenreuther was the maker. Exact same as the mark with lion on it is on page 153-a of Kovel's"Dictionary of Marks- Pottery and Porcelain" by Crown books. Czechoslovakia has been seen on imports as early as 1918 according to Kovel's New Dictionary of marks 1850 to present but of course new companies are discovered every so often. It is possible that part of family moved from 1 country to the other so makers could be brothers or father & son. Often did same work as your parents in olden times.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2010 at 11:54PM
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sunnyca_gw

Forgot to tell you it is a lovely set!! Can you enjoy a cup of tea in the cups, seems like long ago I drank from a very dainty cup & it got quite hot. My GF has a large silver tray(minister's wife) & she has all her lipsticks on it,& it looks great!(your other post-sorry)

    Bookmark   February 27, 2010 at 12:00AM
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antiquesilver

I know less than nothing about china, but that's beautiful stuff whether it's a set or not. In Kovel's New Dictionary of Marks (the only reference I have for china, etc), I found the mark on the tea cup except the 'S' & 'Czechoslovakia' are missing. The notation says "Haas & Czjzek, Shlaggenwald, Bohemia (now Homi Slavkov, Czechoslovakia). They produced Porcelain & Green. Mark was used after 1918 to c.1945. The company was in business from 1867 to 1945+".

The company also had a location in Chodau, Bohemia & this was printed on some of the marks so I'm guessing the 'S' on yours represents the city of manufacture & 'Czechoslovakia' means it was made after the borders changed. BTW, the pine tree motif seems to have been prevelant in Bohemian porcelain marks.

I'm off to see if I can find anything on the other mark.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2010 at 12:35AM
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antiquesilver

Sunny, we must have been posting at the same time!

The "New Dictionary" says the above Hutschenreuther lion mark was used 1955-1969 if that's any help.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2010 at 1:11AM
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sweeby

But you 'did' find it! See the bold text below. From the site you linked:

-------------------------

"Haas & Czjzek - Horní Slavkov, Czech Republic (Schlaggenwald, Bohemia, Austria)

Founded in 1792 by Johann Georg Paulus, Johann Poschl, and Johann Reumann without a porcelain permit. Slavkovský is the Bohemian name of the forest and mountains surrounding this area. This is the first operational Porcelain factory in Bohemia.

1867 Johann Czjzek, a newphew, became a partner. The company name was Haas & Czjzek.
1872 the company bought the Portheim & Sons factory in Dolní Chodov, Czech Republic (Chodau, Bohemia, Austria).
After 1992 the Horní Slavkov (Schlaggenwald) plant became independent from the nationalized company and is still in operation today as Haas & Czjzek .

Both factories were named Haas & Czjzek until after WWII. The Horní Slavkov factory used an "S" or Schlaggenwald in the marks and the Chodov factory used a "C" or Chodau.

-------------------------

That site also included a link to another page (in Czech?) that I explored, finding this table -- which shows your mark and dates it to between 1918 and 1945.

-------------------------

So you see? You *did* find it!

Here is a link that might be useful: Czech site

    Bookmark   February 27, 2010 at 12:02PM
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DLM2000

So let me see if I have this right...... the serving bowl was probably bought at a later time than the rest of the pieces based on the marks, from 1955-69. The dessert set could have been produced anywhere from 1918-45. I know those borders and others changed back and forth many times. My father's family was from Hungary, my mother's from the Ukraine, but less than 100 miles apart and the border that existed then has changed.

sunnyca - I have no idea if the cups get too hot to use - never used them, and it's very unlikely that I ever would. I have my own china with cups in a very similar shape and on the rare (and I mean REALLY rare) occasions that I would want a fancy dessert table, I'd use mine.

Does anyone know if there is a name for that type of webbed pattern?

    Bookmark   February 27, 2010 at 12:49PM
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DLM2000

Well that was rude of me - thank you all for your help. I kept looking at those pages of marks and after a while they all looked the same! Sure wish I knew which grandma bought these - no one left to ask, but since my brother is 11 years older, maybe he remembers.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2010 at 12:54PM
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sweeby

Yes - bought at another time, and also made by another firm. Hutschenreuther is a well-known maker with many listings on ebay, Ruby Lane, etc. (I have a wonderful set of 12 Hutschenreuther buffet/cabinet plates, so I sometimes check there to see if I can find any matching pieces.)

I imagine someone saw the bowl and thought it would match the cups and saucers -- either thinking they were the same maker, or perhaps knowing they weren't, but judging 'close enough'. I see AntiqueSilver ID'd the Hutschenreuther mark to 1955-1969, so that version makes sense.

If you'd like to find more similar pieces, I'd watch Tirschenreuth and Hutschenreuther both on ebay.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2010 at 2:24PM
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cyn427

I know nothing (or even less-lol) about this, but I do know that it was probably made between 1918-1939 because Hitler invaded the Sudetenland and Czecholslovakia ceased to exist during the war. It did not re-emerge as a country until 1945, so I suppose your pieces could be after that, but to me they look more of the era between the wars.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2010 at 10:57AM
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deepfreezeresident

hi there, I just joined and need to post a photo of antique chair with my question about it. How did you guys manage to post your photos? I tried emailing "support" but it bounced back. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

    Bookmark   February 28, 2010 at 11:17AM
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DLM2000

cyn thanks for that extra bit of info.

deepfreeze first you need to have your pictures you want to post on your own computer - are they? Then you need to upload your pictures to an online site like photobucket, picasa or tinypic and then use their codes to put a picture in a post here. It sounds more complicated than it really is. Check out those sites and then if you have questions, start your own post so it doesn't get lost in this one and ask for help.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2010 at 12:34PM
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