Must decide! Getting 2 dishwashers:Bosch and KA-your thoughts?

akcorcoranJanuary 16, 2013

OK, so I know that I'm in a fortunate position in that we are remodeling and can fit two full-size dishwashers, one in the butler's pantry/wet bar and one in the kitchen.

Here's what I'm leaning towards for my plan - but I've been agonizing... I'd love to know your thoughts:

Wet Bar: Bosch 800 Series SHX98M09UC
- The butler's pantry/wet bar is next to our dining room with a no door between them so I wanted a QUIET dw that we could run even while "preserving the moment" in the dining room after a dinner party.
- We are really ONLY running it for wine glasses, plates, china - really no plastics at all. So, the lack of the heated dry should be fine for us. Plus, we'll usually have time to let it sit - won't need to empty it the moment it finishes.
- I have the opportunity for a local store (Bray & Scarff) floor model that is virtually new for $899 - good deal. They will also guarantee the model and provide service if necessary.
- SUMMARY: This is the spot for an elegant, quiet dw that will handle the "results" of our entertaining.

Kitchen: Kitchen Aid, Either KitchenAid Superba Series KUDE60HXSS or KUDE60FXSS, mainly for the Power Dry
- The reality is that often our entire upper rack in our current Frigidaire is filled with plastics. Our daughters must bring a trash-free lunch and water bottle every day, so it's multiple plastic containers a DAY (plus our adult tervis tumblers!) We also have Pottery Barn Kids melamine bowls. I need a dishwasher that DRIES plastic, even if it can only be on the top rack. We usually fill the bottom with plates and pots and pans anyway.
- Disposal is useful for us with the amount of pre-rinsing we do. I am more likely to really pre-wash (something my father raised me to do! Hubby often says the dishes are already clean when they go in the dw!) BUT, I'd like my daughters to load more often and as quickly as they can so I'd like something to be able to handle that (without me having to pull out and manually empty a filter.)
- It's still rated as quiet. The dw is in our kitchen which is connected to a larger family room, though separated by a table. I don't need it to be silent but I'd like it to be quiet.
- Can anyone tell me what I'd need to do on the KA to be sure it's flush vs protruding an inch 1/2?
- SUMMARY: I want a work horse in the kitchen. We are a busy family of 4.

OK, so thoughts on my solution? PLEASE share your thoughts - I have to make a decision and order in the next 24 hours. I'd really like to hear from the Garden Web community!

Thanks in advance!

P.S. Don't think it hasn't occurred to me that eventually if I fall in love with the Bosch 800, I could switch them! :-)

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Based on this post, also considering the KUDE70 - it's fantastic to see the photos of it loaded and unloaded. :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Post on KA

    Bookmark   January 16, 2013 at 3:09AM
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We have owned 6 dishwashers over nearly 40 years, as follows:

Kenmore - worked well, probably a Whirlpool, we moved
GE - Worked well, we moved
GE - It was a lemon and we replaced it
Maytag - Very top of the line, and a lemon, replaced it
Kitchenaid - middle of line, OK, but very noisy had an appetite for parts
Bosch - middle of the line and works excellent

Our Bosch is less than a year old. Having owned both a KA and Bosch I would highly recommend the Bosch for both locations. Why?

The heated dry is way over rated. Our Maytag had not only a heater element, but also a fan. The KA had a heater. The Bosh has neither. Yes there will be a few drops of water on plastic, but I recall the KA, and even the Maytag was not free of that issue. The problem is with the plastic, not the dishwasher. Plastic holds no heat. We deal with it by simply not putting away the plastic immediately. It it sits 30 minutes or so on the counter, the drops are gone.

On the food, and a built in food "macerator" or whatever they want to call it, again that feature is way over rated. I've taken these things apart, and that evil sounding "macerator" is typically a paper clip sized piece of wire on the end of the pump shaft. Probably costs them less than 5 cents to put in there.

The Bosch deals with this issue by having a very good filter system. Large pieces of food never make it to the pump. You will find then laying on the bottom of the tub on top of the fine filter plate. You just remove them when you unload the dishwasher. I think this is a far better ideal than mashing up the food and then spraying it all over the dishes. The GE we had drove us crazy. You could put a perfectly clean glass, that all you had was a drink of water out of, on the top rack. At the end of the cycle the glass was full of grunge. I think that is compliments of the mascerator (paper clip) system. The Bosch just holds it back.

Cleaning the filter in the Bosch is also a piece of cake. I was initially against any dishwasher that has a filter, as we don't rinse our dishes. But it in actual fact is not a problem at all. Once a month you can pull and clean the filters in about 15 seconds. I would trade the cleaning the filter job for loading the dishwasher any day. It is a trivial job.

I can't comment on the long term reliability of the Bosch. I'm hoping it will provide more than 10 years of service. The KA got about 10 years. The most chronic problem with it was the lower wash arm seal. It is plastic, and wears out fast. Lost count of how many times I replaced it, and it was not all that cheap. When the seal wears you get less water flow to both arms and the dishes start to come out dirty.

Hope that helps some. I would go for that Bosch model in both locations. Or if you do not want to pay for the 42 dB Bosch model in both locations go for a mid range 46 dB Bosch. That is what we have and you have to look at the light to see if it is running. It is that quiet. In comparison our KA sounded like a jet taking off when it pumped.

    Bookmark   January 21, 2013 at 12:12PM
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Forget the Kitchen Aid, they have been going down hill for 20 years.

    Bookmark   January 23, 2013 at 1:19AM
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Hi - Thank you for your response. I'm sorry for the delay to such a thoughtful post. I haven't been getting any notifications of replies so I was so sad and feeling bereft of help.

I really appreciate your thoughts, ronaka, It's hard to distinguish marketing mumbo jumbo from the actual implementation of the feature in the dishwasher. I think I'll head back to the store and reconsider the Bosch family for the kitchen too.

Hubby has gotten all obsessed with the Miele line - without having looked at the pricetag first. :-)


    Bookmark   January 24, 2013 at 11:50PM
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Bosch is great, but only if it never needs service. I vote KA.

    Bookmark   January 27, 2013 at 8:57PM
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I just replaced a top of the line KA for a Bosch. Had the KA for 6 long, painful years. Every dish had to be inspected for grit before being put away. The arms, especially the upper arms, were constantly clogged with food particles. Removing them to clean was incredibly frustrating because of poor design. Three times we had a repairman out to look at the problem to no avail.

We got the Bosch in August and I'm in heaven, the dishes are spotless and the machine is silent. The plastics (and I use a lot of tupperware) might be damp when I remove them, but they are clean. Pry my Bosch from my cold dead fingers.

    Bookmark   January 27, 2013 at 9:19PM
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I owned a Bosch in my previous home and loved it. When we moved into our current home 11 years ago the first thing we did was get rid of the previous owners crappy dishwasher and replace it with a Bosch. When we remodeled the kitchen last year we gave our 10 year old Bosch to a friend and installed a panel ready 500 series Bosch. I hope I'm not jinxing myself by saying this but in a all my years of owning a Bosch dishwasher I have never had a service call. My dishes always come out sparkling clean and dry. So I highly recommend Bosch.

    Bookmark   January 27, 2013 at 11:49PM
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Owned a Whirlpool for 7yrs before having trouble. Now own a KA 6 months and rinse-aid knob is already broken. Dishes still come out a bit damp, despite of heated dry.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2013 at 2:44PM
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I have a highish-end (not top but close) KA and I'm very disappointed. It clogs up every 6 months, requiring either a lengthy cleaning process or a service call. It's simply poorly designed - the water for the top rack goes through the masticator, so if there's anything in there it gets sprayed on whatever's on the top rack. Idiotic design. The masticator is a cheap dullish blade, no wonder it gets clogged. My old GE worked much better, and cost a third of what this fancy POS did. I'll never buy another KA product.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 4:01AM
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We bought a Bosch about a year and a half ago. Very pleased with it, and it has not needed any service. We run a load every 3 days or so, so ours isn't used daily.


    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 11:31AM
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I had a Bosch in my last house and put one in here 4 years ago. Both trouble free. About a year and half ago my DD put in a KA. It has been nothing but trouble. It keeps shutting off mid cycle. At least 4 times repairs have been done. It is out of warranty and she is disgusted taking the day off of work to wait for repair plus the expense. Last repair man said KA will not replace, it is cheaper to put new parts in when you are paying for service.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 2:06PM
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I've bought two Boschs and have a third on order for the latest reno... never had a problem with any of them.

Even though their testing is controversial and not respected by some, I find it statistically significant that the Consumer Reports top ratings are dominated by Bosch or Bosch-made dishwashers. Either someone is getting paid off well or there is something to the product. In the other appliance rankings the various brands are generally distributed across the list.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 4:43PM
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In 2009 we bought the KA KUDS30IVSS dw. I lugged a box of tableware and cookware into the store to try loading the KA, WP (who owns KA), Bosch, and Miele. Because we have a lot of very odd or very big pieces, we had to go with the KA.

It was clear just from examining the various DWs that the Miele was the class act of the group. Solid and very high quality; the KA was far more plastic-y. However, my stuff just did not fit. I was looking at having to run the DW twice in a night just to get all the items washed that I could do in one load in the KA.

Miele has a more flexible loading arrangement now with their new models (what took them so long???) and I don't think I would have any problems now.

I have an extended warranty on the KA and the quality of service repairmen has varied tremendously. One of them actually wired in a replacement part incorrectly, which caused another two service calls before a more experienced service guy saw what was wrong. All four calls were for the same part, the detergent dispenser. Other than that, I've had no problems with it.

BUT, it has gotten progressively noisier. It is clearly, despite its cost, not a high quality product.

If you can't afford the Miele, buy the Bosch. Not everything they make is great, but DWs are a strength of theirs and have been for a long time.

    Bookmark   February 2, 2013 at 5:16PM
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This is all great advice. I figured out today (duh - late to the party, maybe?) that the Dimension Plus model also has the "auto open" feature - it's just not that well advertised (maybe they think people will downgrade from the Diamond?) The fully integrated one is about $1900 here at a local appliance store - that's high but really not that much her that the KA KUD60 or KUD70 models.

I'm going to take in a bunch of dishes and give it a try. I've read that there's sort of an adjustment period for learning to load it. If our tall glasses fit (they are my lifeline,) then Miele we shall order!

Is it best to order through a local store and have them install it? Or will service go through a Miele rep anyway (not the store?) I ask b/c my house is crawling with contractors and our plumber is great. There are some better prices on the internet but all my other appliances I have ordered locally because they will service them (family run appliance store - three generations.) BUT they don't service Miele so I'm not sure if it makes a difference?

OK - so Bosch is out. KA is looking less likely. If the Miele fits, buy it?!

(P.S. The Ferguson here in Baltimore, MD has a lower model - G 4thousand something for sale as a floor model for $895. Not sure if anyone wants that model but you should call if you do! As I said, I missed getting the floor sample Diamond by a matter of hours. UGH!

    Bookmark   February 2, 2013 at 10:01PM
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