Do you know this china mark?

Fori is not pleasedJanuary 6, 2010

I can figure out where this was made, but that's about it. Anyone recognize the mark? Guesses as to age? I was told it was my grandmother's everyday china but I think someone probably got that wrong.

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sunnyca_gw

I looked in my 2 Kovels' marks books & that mark isn't in there. I have a children's set that has gold in center before it gets white & small flowers on it & similar scrolls but it is just marked Japan in red, it was sent by my friend when her dad was surgeon fixing up soldier's during Korean war, they lived in Japan for 2 yrs. So about 1954. I think your's are older. Only thing I see is it looks like the center has an "S' so that could be 1st letter of the company. I looked in both marks books again under "s' & didn't find any that looked like they might be Japanese. The 2 red stars may mean something also. Sorry not much help!

    Bookmark   January 7, 2010 at 1:34AM
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lindac

I can't find the mark either. I didn't post because I thought that if I didn't have anything concrete to add I would leave it at the top of the page.
The pattern looks to me very typical of some of the Noritake patterns.
Since Noritake is made up of many merged China companies originally marketed by the Morimuras, it could very be made at one of those early "noritake" potters.
Linda C

    Bookmark   January 7, 2010 at 11:46AM
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Fori is not pleased

Thanks for looking, y'all.

My mother told me she thought it was Noritake years ago, but then last Christmas she gave me a fabulous Noritake vase with a clear mark and said she didn't know who made it, so I have sort of discounted her china knowledge. Someone on my dad's side of the family, I think his mother, gave it to my aunt on my mom's side of the family, who eventually dumped it on me, with most of it damaged. My father isn't one to remember what china he ate off as a child (or this morning) so he's useless.

But it DOES look like some of the older patterns, and the covered dishes have that gold on the handles in the shape of hearts if you know what I mean. I'm not sure when that was popular, and that doesn't mean this wasn't a later knockoff of that. All I can say for sure is that it doesn't look like it was expensive! I do love the colors, even though they fight with each other.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2010 at 12:15PM
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lindac

At the time it was made, it was "cheap Japanese dishes"...not bone china, not Wedgewood, not Bavarian or Limoges....just cheap Japanese stuff!
My! How times have changed!!

    Bookmark   January 7, 2010 at 3:23PM
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Fori is not pleased

Ahhh but the old Noritake stuff just seems more refined than these, in the pattern detailing. And the green paint on the edge just seems slopped on, but maybe it has worn off (but before the gold trim?) But the shape of the serving pieces, especially sugar and creamer, look very much like the mid-30s Noritake patterns. For sure "cheap Japanese dishes", and probably at the cheap end of that spectrum!

I took a better look at the pieces (I only use the butter dish regularly) and realized the gold ring in the middle of the dishes isn't dirty like I'd thought--it's supposed to be tan!

    Bookmark   January 7, 2010 at 6:43PM
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riosamba

Fori, I don't recognize the mark, but I have a set which is very similar marked "Hand Painted Empress China Japan." I spent a maddening afternoon with a place setting and a platter next to me while I clicked away at ebay and Replacements. There were so many similar patterns from Empress (Japan) at Replacements it nearly made my eyes bleed. I finally found my pattern after clicking through every named pattern and all the numbers up to 43. Replacements calls my pattern "EMP43."

I noodled around a bit looking for your pattern and did not find it. I could not face clicking through the whole list again. I did find an ebay seller who has this to say about my pattern:
"The pattern is Flora...a hard pattern to find from the 1920s. This is the early pattern that is handpainted and has no pattern number. It is completely marked on the back, including the early mark and the pattern name."

When I look at "Flora no#" at Replacements there is a photo of only a plate. It's very similar to mine but not the same. Perhaps it matches yours? I suspect that if you click through the Empress Japan patterns at Replacements, you will find a match.

Empress seems to have been a prolific producer. I recognize that my own set (with many signs of use) wouldn't be worth a dime to anyone else, but it is so precious to me.

My Empress service belonged to dear friends of my grandmother who did not have children of their own. The wife was one of the first of my grandmother's set to die but her husband lived a long time. My mother (with some help from me), was the one who faithfully cared for him, visited him, etc. When he had to go into a nursing home and we were packing things, he told my mother that he wanted her to have the dishes. She protested, and he laughed, and said, "Don't worry, you'll earn them!" And, of course, she did.

I feel so blessed to have had the opportunity to know my grandmother and several of her close friends into my adult life. They were lovely, strong, fascinating people. So the Empress service is meaningful to me. I use it with people who I know will appreciate its story as well as that of its first owners. Along with the dishes come the stories, which I hope my children will someday tell their children. I wouldn't trade that set for Flora Danica.

A serving bowl from my set:

The backstamp:

Here is a link that might be useful: Empress (Japan) at Replacements

    Bookmark   January 16, 2010 at 3:14PM
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Fori is not pleased

Wow! That is so close! I'll check it out and report back. Thanks for the lead!

    Bookmark   January 16, 2010 at 4:12PM
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Fori is not pleased

Mine look like yours! I'm not sure the color on the edge is the same but the flowers are the same. Right down to the purple, red, yellow, and blue flowers living together. And the edge color could certainly be the same, depending on computers and photos.

You have such a nice story with yours--I must interrogate my mom and see what she can remember about mine.

I'll see what I can find about the mark. Maybe mine is a knock-off of Empress! A very blatant one, if it is! :)

    Bookmark   January 16, 2010 at 7:14PM
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riosamba

Fori, the edge color on mine is lighter in person, more like what I see in your photo. The difference that I notice is in the additional gold scroll work that your set has on the ends of your serving pieces.

I hope you find a story to go along with yours!

    Bookmark   January 16, 2010 at 9:08PM
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Fori is not pleased

Thanks again, Rio.

I guess the different scroll work could be just a different year or something? The backstamps are sure different! But I bet we could mix them up and nobody would notice they didn't go.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2010 at 10:10PM
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jaybird

Meito also made some patterns similar to yours. You have some lovely dishes!

    Bookmark   August 16, 2010 at 1:56PM
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Fori is not pleased

Thanks, Jaybird! I like them but wish I had enough to serve a meal off of!

    Bookmark   August 16, 2010 at 2:15PM
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annabellekilbourne

With that mark, it must have been a chinese antique in the mid 70's, based on the design and letters, it must have been made during the times of war. It will be of great price when bid!

Here is a link that might be useful: Chinese Antique

    Bookmark   August 23, 2010 at 11:43AM
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flowermum

These are mine. Noritake Marvelle 304

    Bookmark   August 26, 2010 at 11:16AM
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