Well there are MANY FL proponents on this board but I am not one of them.

I had a Kenmore FL (don't remember the model number but I think it was around $1400.)

Cycles took forever, cleaning was mediocre, rinsing was poor and the wrinkling from the high speed spins was terrible. In short, I expected a $1400 washer to make my life easier and it certainly did not.

Proponents will tell you that those with bad FL experiences just didn't know how to use them properly and refused to following the "learning curve." Whatever. I tried many suggestions and none of them worked and I returned to a standard Kenmore top loader and am happy.

If I were buying now, it would be a Speed Queen top loader. Sometimes simpler is better.

This is a really hard thing for getting advice on. People here have had both good and bad experiences with the same machines. Some are adamant fl users and some are just as strongly tl users. I believe you need to think about what your laundry needs are, along with your 'wants' and then go from there. Do you want to be energy concious? water concious? do you frequently wash items that could/should be sanitized - if so you probably want a machine with a heater. Do you have expectations on how long a cycle will last? Is you machine going to be located in an area where noise will be a problem? What types of laundry do you do? The list goes on...

Something that works well for me in my situation may not be the best for you in your situation, or even with your laundry habits. For example, years ago I bought a basic model maytag tl. I rarely even ran a cycle that wasn't set to 'normal' wash, high for water, and warm with a cold rinse... unless I was washing sheets, which were white and I would change the temperature to hot with a warm rinse. I was happy with my machine and my laundry. My sister needed a new machine and on my recommendation went out and bought a similar model maytag, several years newer at this point. She HATED the maytag because it only had 2-3 cycle choices and 3-4 temperature combinations... her old machine had separate setting/dials for wash and rinse so she could do whatever comibnation she wanted, not just the few the machine came pre-set with... and for whatever reasons of her own she used all sorts of temp combinations along with different cycle settings regularly... to this day I will not understand why that it!

Anyway, my point here is you can't buy something based on other people saying you'll like this. You need to decide on features that you feel you will use or want, and then check to be sure you can get LOCAL service for the brand you are buying. I will further comment that in my experience, the sales staff at the large big box stores don't know squat about what they sell, only which machines they sell a lot of. I recommend finding a local appliance store with a good range of brands and talking with them to narrow down your search. It may take a couple stores to cover all the different brands, but do that, then shop around for pricing from all the stores, and decide where to purchase, remembering that most all stores will price match... and typically the local guys at the smaller store service what they sell themselves instead of you calling an 800 number in god knows where to schedule service.

All this said, I loved my tl maytag, and relaced it at 20+ years not because anything was wrong per se, but because I was concerned it would fail and if that happened I was concerned about water damage as my laundry in on the second floor of my home. I replaced it with a fl machine, and yes, it took a bit of time to adjust to, but I love my new machine now just as much as my old one, maybe even more.

Once you narrow down, then check back for feed back on the couple machines you narrow down to, but remember, you will get most likely get good and bad comments on the same machines from people here.

In fairness, a lot of the mold issues are because people don't maintain the machines. A FL is different than a TL and it seems clear that there is a learning curver if you've never had one. Leaving the door open, wiping it out, draining the trays are common ways to avoid the mold issues.

However, it should also be said that spending a lot of money WILL NOT guarantee trouble-free operation. That's clear from this board too. There's a number of people reporting problems with Miele like virtually any brand.

It's tough for us to recommend what machine is good for YOU. We don't know your laundry needs, styles, procedures, clothes, soil types and levels, water conditions, how much tinkering you want to do with laundry and the like. There's a couple people here who will scream at you if you consider a machine without a heater. Some shout that a TL HE is the only way to go. Some only want conventional deep water levels. And many will exaggerate their claims to make their favorites look better.

Take a look around the forum. There's a lot of info available. From that you can develop some ideas on what your needs are. Do you need high capacity often? Do you have stains that require high water temperatures and can your clothes handle those temps? Apparently money is no object so budget isn't apparently a concern. Are you putting this on a second floor? All of these and more can factor into a good decision.

One suggestion. Try not to obsess over it. I understand the frustration but keep this in mind. A washer basically gets clothes wet, mixes them in some detergent, moves them around and spins some of the water out of them. They pretty much all do this. Some people are more finicky about it than others, some will do more to get more out of it. Some just want to set it and forget it. So what's right for one certainly won't be right for another.

Relax and have a good time looking. Good luck on your decision. Feel free to ask questions.

We've got a FL (LG) and never had any mold issues -- likely because we read up on them before buying and found others indicating that you should keep the door open to allow things to dry out.. We always do this and our machine is >5 years old w/ never a mold problem..

Well, I started this process wanting be energy and water conscious - hence the desire to get a front loader. I have a kenmore king sized TL now, and my clothes don't get super super clean, as in my kids socks are no longer WHITE. I hate using bleach, as I don't like the smell, and the fact that it probably isn't too good for the environment. So, if a front loader cleans better, yay! I do try and do large loads as I figure it's more efficent that way.

We are currently in the midst of a major remodel, and selecting a washer dryer is just of the million decisions I am agonizing over. I was so excited with the prospect of having an inside laundry room that I didn't really give much thought to what would actually reside in the laundry room. I guess I was hoping that by going for a top of the line machine like the Miele, I could just be done and not have to make this decision for another 20 years :)

I have been to a local appliance store that my GC referred me to, and they don't endorse any brand strongly. They don't like the LG's much as they say they see the LG rep once a year. They have been selling a lot of the GE6800 that came in at #2 on the consumerreports, and they don't even have one on display.

They offer a 5 year warranty on the Miele's when they do the install themselves - a testament to the quality? They say they have also been selling the Electrolux - but there are very few reports on them online.

The Duets seem like a good middle ground, but have read some horrific things about them with regards to the Mold. I have not ready many negatives on the Miele with regards to mold, which was another reason I was leaning towards them..

plumbly22 - what FL do you have?

cynic - I truly wish I could stop obsessing. My poor GC needs to do the wiring for the room, and I have been doing research trying to find the perfect machine for the last 3 weeks, only to find out that there is no such thing as the perfect machine :(

Honestly, I had no idea about a internal heater on machines - I do have a hot water settling on my current TL, and use it occassionally when I wash the bath mats. But I think washing in warm water would be just as ok. I guess the only time I would want really hot water would be to wash diapers, and I use compostable diapers - so no poopy diapers in the wash for me.

High capacity is defnitely a must-have, as I prefer doing large loads.

I wouldn't say money is no object. I actually found out about Miele washers when I went to Ikea to save some money on cabinets for the laundry room. The lady there couldn't stop raving about them. I figure if I get a washer that will last awhile, I will be save money in the long run? And less stuff to fill the landfill. But again, that doesn't mean spending the most money gets you the best washer.

aiyyo_pj...

I remember spending a LONG time making my decision. I had decided I wanted a fl and I wanted a heater after my first stop at the local appliance store. At the time (close to 3 years now) the store I was at sold most all brands, except either LG or Samsung (I think it was LG they sold and not samsung...but don't hold me to that..) anyway, my first visit the sales guy basically sold my husband and I on fl technology and a heater... he personally has bosch, other sales guy there had whirlpool. We left and hunted around some other stores for a while gettng input from the various sales people. I looked long and hard at the Miele... but in the end couldn't justify the money plus the electrical modification cost. After all was said and done we came down to Whirlpool (designed in the US and built in Germany) or Bosch (designed in Germany and built in North Carolina, US)... the cost for both was basically the same so that didn't factor in.

While many consider the bosch machines 'ugly' I personally don't mind the looks of them. Both were recommended by the local appliance guy, he basically said you can't go wrong with either, but he personally prefered the Bosch... his reasoning was you were getting years of fl design knowledge with a German engineered product... their repair guy services everything they sell and they feel these two brands are the top performers.

We got the Bosch 500 model... this was prior to the 500 plus model... really it's a pretty basic machine with a heater. For us, in our install location, it works wonderfully. Others here will tell you they've had problems with the bosch, but then, as I said before, there are those on both sides of all brands here, so you need to research yourself and feel comfortable with what you get. And do ourself a favor... after you buy whatever you buy, don't go looking to find faults with it... remain positive and stay smart with regard to leaving it open some to air our and wiping down the gasket and door.

btw... the heater will maintain a water temperature for the whole wash... my machines are quite a distance away from my water heater. Unless I first flush the hot line, my warm and hot washes would be luke warm at best, especially with the minimal amounts of water that my machine uses (approx 11-13 gallons per wash cycle). This is a major reason for a heater, many have found their cold water is actually too cold for disolving of powdered detergent.

Another 'rude' point I'll make is many are swayed by the glitz and glamour of a bright and shiney colorful washer and dryer... not me... mine are behind closet doors in my spare bath... it is extremely rare for anyone but me to see them in my home. I could personally care less what they 'look' like I just want them to work well and quietly as they are near my bed!

When our agitator TL had problems last September, we took the plunge and bought a Miele W4840 (Well, first we bought and returned an LG, but that's a different subject). Simply put, it gets our stuff to a whole different level of clean. To put it another way, until we got this machine, we just didn't have clean clothes and linens. Also gets our white stuff whiter, with oxygen bleach, than in the TL using chlorine bleach.

Mold: No hint of any problem. All the horror stories about FL mold have scared us into wiping the bottom of the door seal dry, and dumping excess water from the dispenser drawer, and leaving the door and drawer open a bit for a while after a wash. But none of this is required by Miele.

Noise: It's far quieter than any agitator TL I've used. Tumbling is almost silent, the drain pump makes some noise but not annoyingly loud. Spins are kind of a whir, not an "airplane noise" like I've heard some machines described.

Spin vibration: Ours is on a sturdy wooden floor over a basement, and it's fine. I could see having a vibration problem if it was mounted on a bouncy wooden floor.

Rinsing: I run almost all my washes (I do the household towels and linens, as well as my own clothes) with the standard two rinses, and the stuff comes out soft, none of the "crunchy towels" that some FL owners complain about. Recently I noticed my wife using the extra rinse ("Sensitive") option when she was washing her clothes, and asked if she was seeing a problem. She said No, she just believes in extra rinses. Anyway, there is that extra rinse option, and there's also a configuration option for "permanent" extra rinse and/or higher water level. I've never felt the need to try those config options. The only detergent we've ever used in this machine is Sears Ultra Plus Free powdered.

Re warm vs hot water: Wash temperature does make a difference, and one of the nice (and unique) features of the Miele is the choice of five wash temperatures (30C, 40C, 50C, 60C, 70C) with the temperature guaranteed by the heater.

The cycles are longer than you're used to.

That's my experience.

I have a Miele 4800, which is not far from the 4840. I regret my purchase. If you have to buy a big Miele, then the 4840 is the only way as the 4800 lacks many usefull options. But if it was only that...

My clothes are not looking any better than the ones coming from a top GE or Whirlpool. In fact, stains are still there, white is white (kinda), towels are stiff, etc. I had Miele coming servicing the unit (excellent service btw), checking system reports, giving recomendations. Well, even after using the recommended one tablespoon Persil powder per load, at every possible temperature, with or without extra rince, at Delicate for more water, with vinegar in the rince water, holding my breath with one foot in the air, clothes are still stiff and not cleaner that what I could get with cheaper models.

It's not a bad unit, it's just overpriced. Plus, it's build in Mexico. I had two cars made there, never again.

Oh and no mold after two years of use. I keep the door wide open.

I hope I'm not hijacking this post, but I do have a question...

Several of you have alluded to the fact that you have to "dump excess water from the dispenser drawer".

Is this something you should be doing for all FLs? I'm asking b/c in my case our W & D are in the basement with no Laundry Tub and a sealed sump pump well. I don't have any place to dump water. Does this mean a FL is not recommended for this situation?

ostieca, have you tried more detergent, or a different powdered detergent? I've never used Persil, but from what I've seen, the dosage recommended by the detergent manufacturer is more than one tablespoon. What is your water's hardness? Harder water needs more detergent and/or a softening additive.

What! Miele made in Mexico!?

Also ostieca, have you ask the Miele tech to increase your W4800 rinse level by his laptop?

buehl, you could soak up the excess dispenser water with the same towel you use to wipe the door seal. It isn't a lot of water.

One other 4840 question.. My wife likes to run a 2nd cycle to re-rinse the clothing (something I think is a waste) -- our current LG can do a rinse+spin cycle w/o soap -- is that an option by itself on the 4840? .. I really need to brake some of these old TL habits my wife has..

Yes, the 4840 has a rinse & spin cycle.

I don't dump the water out. I just leave the drawer open and let it evaporate on it's own. We're talking maybe a quarter cup...

Thank you all for your constructive feedback. I was just in the process of typing up an email to my GC telling him my final choice - I am going to go for the Miele 4840 and 9820. I will probably need to relearn a lot of stuff as I'm used to a TL. I really hope everything goes okay (no vibration, no mold etc etc. ), as it is a considerable investment.

Plumbly - The local store I went, al the reps seem to own the Bosch, so I thing it's a very sensible choice. Anyway, I will try and heed your advice of 'buy whatever you buy, don't go looking to find faults with it...'

Thanks!

Make sure the GC knows that the Miele washer goes on the right, and the dryer on the left.

Thanks suburbanmd. I did mention to the GC the washer on the right and dryer on the left. That's how we had it in the plans originally, so maybe it was meant to be:) Any other tips/advice with regards to placement of duct/venting etc?

I do plan to get it installed by the Store, and that will extend my warranty from 1 to 5 years. Fingers crossed, I won't need to use it!

thanks again

I don't have Miele dryer, still using my old Kenmore, so can't comment on venting, etc. Usual factors probably apply.

Which "Store" will install it? First time I saw Miele was at an Expo Design Center (RIP). Of course they could've installed it if I'd bought it there. But they said they weren't an authorized Miele installer. I ended up buying it from a small dealer instead, for $50 more. Delivery and installation was $195.

Congrats on your purchase! Here're two videos of the 4800 on YouTube - really quiet machine, I have to say!

Miele on YouTube

Alex

The store name is University Electric - located in Santa Clara, California. They are authorized Miele dealers/installers. They have the washer priced at $1799 and the dryer is priced at $1199.

The lady at Ikea who first told me about the Miele's say that they have the best price in the area. And my GC likes them too, though I must say the sales men were so-so, except for Bob who actually took the time to discuss all my options.

Thanks Alex for the video. Since I have never actually hung out in front my washer dryer before I have no idea how this ranks in the quietness scale :) But now that I am going to have the washer dryer in my scrapbook room/laundry room, I will be spending a lot of time with these Machines :)

Does anyone have recommendations for a folding iron board that can be mounted inside a cabinet?

First of all I want to say my husband and I look for good quality in anything we buy, so if we have to spend a little more and we can afford it, that is the way we will go.

Regarding the 'mold' question.

Previously to owning our nearly 3 week old Miele 4840 and dryer we owned a Front Loading Whirlpool, so I am familiar with front loaders. You should not have an issue as long as you wipe excess water from the folds of the door seal, then leave door ajar/open when done washing. I have also found it helpful to remove & shake out the dispenser drawer, then keeping it open slightly. Sometimes too I may wipe the inside of the door just to keep it clean. I consider it just basic care, as I would do with any of my appliances. A task that takes me all of 30 seconds!

The noise issues. For the washer, it is imperative it is 100% level. Ours is in a basement, therefore on concrete, however as basements are the floor pitches towards a drain. In our situation my husband had to put a board under the front legs (both units) as the legs of the machines were not long enough to compensate for the pitch (this is a problem we have had with any washer/dryer over the years). Also, as Front Loaders are top heavy there is more of a tendancy to vibrate slightly...now add a pedestal which I wouldn't be without, the tendancy is slightly higher. Yes, while there is some vibration, we & the Miele installer felt it was within an acceptable tolerance for our application. To add, we've noticed the vibration only occurs during the time frame in which the washer is gearing up to max, and once attained it is nothing more than a shimmer. I would not define it as too noisy. The washer has not moved, even slighty when using the max spin at 1400 RPM's. I've read how some users reduced the spin speed to high, over max, to avoid this problem. I refuse to do that as I wanted the higher 1400 RPM's, and was not going to settle for 900 RPM's on the high speed. I can't emphasize enough to make sure the washer is level. I can't speak anything of installations other than in a basement.

The issue of Noise on the dryer. I too have read horrible reviews on this dryer. I was concerned as well. We spoke with the salesperson on this subject too. He told us how he attended an actual demonstration with Miele and did not find the criticism warranted in his opinion. He told us what you actually hear is the sound of air moving/whirling. This dryer is powerful which makes it stand a head above all others! Still I was very nervous about what I have read...almost paranoid! When the unit was installed, I was not paying attention, and the installer turned the dryer on. I was expecting this 'jet plane' noise I had read about...only I didn't hear that! I had to ask my husband & the installer if it was going to get louder? I was expecting this loud roar. Only to hear the strong force of moving air! My concerns melted at that point! :) Not any louder than any previously owned dryer.

The rinsing issue. After owning a 5 yr old FL Whirlpool (Duet) I found the Miele did a better job in this area (better than the Electroluc we returned). In fact I was impressed! I did not feel there was a lack of water. I find many use too much soap. The smaller the loads, I've noticed a tendancy for more sudsing. Small throw rugs can really cause oversudsing, so I reduce the soap level and make sure the load isn't too small. Also, I don't like the liquid detergents any more (at least those purchasded at the grocery store) as I would describe them as 'sticky.' In the Electrolux we bought and returned, there was sometimes a residual of liquid soap left in the dispenser tray which was eventually rinsed out into the rinse water! We returned the Electrolux as there were other issues. Right now I am now using powder Tide HE. I've heard and read good things about the Persil powder however it is costly, but then so are our Miele Washer/Dryer.

Just a little tip on something I've found helpful. I add maybe 1/4 cup water to the fabric softener dispenser to thin out the fabric softener. I feel it will pay off in the long run as from my personal experience on every machine I've even owned, the fabric softener seems to get gummy in dispenser cups/trays/compartments after time. I'm basically lazy and feel taking just a little extra time up front, pays off down the road.

All in all you have to judge for yourself to find what you are comfortable with. In my opinion, and I am very, very particular, there isn't a washer out there that offers every combination of wash, spin speed and water temperation I would like to see. I feel you have to judge for yourself. Look at the type of laundry you do and see if the programs are what you are looking for. As there are only 2 of us now, we found the Electrolux with even a larger capacity drum was just too big. Sometimes less is best.

All installation applications are not equal, and some of the issues should not be blamed on the units themselves, but on the user end. We do recommend having them installed by an authorized Miele technician, which by the way will also increase the warranty. We did have problems where the delivery people set them up, so make sure if purchasing these units you insist on Miele installers.

I cannot comment on longevity as we've only had these units 3 weeks. I will tell you my husband was impressed with the overall construction and sturdiness of the units and he was the one that wanted to return the Electrolux and purchase the Miele..., although he cannot offer any help on the features or functions ;)

My biggest complaint, and yes this is a complaint, the Operating Instructions books are not as comprehensive as I would like. This is based on the many manuals we've had over the years...OK, now you know we are not kids! ;) In fact, I find it doesn't address some of the basic operation functions of the units. I like to know e.g. what the rinse water temp is, or what the RPM's for the different speeds are, or at what point does the bleach enter the machine and when and how does the internal heater kick in? I've put in no less than a dozen calls to Miele and their Customer Care and Tech Support depts. I've gotten much contradiction as well guesses as to how it works, although most representatives were polite...they just didn't have the answers! I would think there is written docmentation somewhere, but no one seems to really know. This has been extremely frustrating, but I haven't given up! :)

I am not an engineer or a techy person. I feel I am an informed user who wants to know how things work. I recommend, at least in the beginning, watching your clothes go through the cycles so you know what to expect and better use your units. This is why I love the see through doors, which I have labeled the 'portholes.' I would never go back to top loading units, and being on the tall side, the pedestals are worth every cent!!

ostieca, where does it say your W4800 is built in Mexico? The serial number plate on my W4840 says

120V~ 60Hz
Mexico: 127V ~60Hz 1,4 KW

which seems to refer to the machine's electrical specifications when used in Mexico. But I don't see the country of manufacture anywhere.

suburbanmd:

The recommendation on the Miele.ca site is made from GTA. Water is softer in Montreal and I only use one tablespoon, as recommended by the technicien. Before using Persil, I used Sunlight. Same thing. I also changed quantity(used the recommanded quantity from the website - lots of sudsing)same stiffness.

somonica:

I asked the tech for it but he said to run in Delicate and cut on the detergeant is more effective.

Now for the note about the country of assembly: it's mostly wild guest from my part, but knowing how proud are Germans and Americans of their build quality, why wouldn't they write it on the unit? I don't remember seeing the country of manufacturing when the tech came in and modded the door assembly either.

The large Americanized Miele is built in Mexico. If you want a German built Miele then you have to go with the European style machines that are smaller, but much much higher quality in my opinion. Night and day between the Mexican washer and the German Mieles. The German Miele is built like a tank and will probably run 30 years or more without any problems.

The comments on Mieles not having mold is correct but only applies to the European version of the machines which do not have any plastic parts in the wash area, and a very small gasket. I don't think this applies to the Mexican machine. The other difference is that on the 240V machines, the heater can get a lot hotter a lot faster and an occasional wash at near boiling temps really does a good job in sanitizing the machine. I've never needed to do this however to control mold or smell or anything. This machine does not have them. (I have a miele 1986)

The downside of course is the German Miele, is not designed for washing "American style", you have to have a 240V circuit for it and it does cost a lot. However nothing matches it for washing and it can wash a lot of clothes. If you don't want a European Miele, then I would probably go with one of the new stainless Speed Queens before getting the large Mieles.

bernise6, can you please give a source for the statement that the Miele W4800 series is made in Mexico?

The cycle lengths, temperature selections, and internal heater usage on my W4840 mark it as closer to "European" than "American", slower heater and different cycle terminology notwithstanding.

When the delivery men came for the first time, they bought in a W4800 (we ordered the W4840!)..... The the box of that W4800 said..... Made in Czech Republic.

I didn't see the box of our W4840 when it was finally deliver.... But the QC sheet that come with it do have two German sounding name written on that... :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele Uničov technical factory

Hi ostieca...

You are in Montreal? Last time I call Miele Canada about the rinse water level, they knew EXACTLY what I'm talking about and the tech came in with their PC and switch that "Maximum water level" On for me.... That setting make those very low rinse level programs (Normal, extra white and Custom) to 2 inches above the rim.

Delicate cycle only run 47 minutes Max with med spin That's NOT a replacement of those long high temperature high spin speed cotton cycle.

{{gwi:2002900}}

Miele 4840 was made in the Czech Republic as well.

We bought our Miele washer & dryer almost 2 years ago and the overall experience is very positive. We do have some vibration issues due to the relatively weak floors, but the quality of laundry is superb and compensates this issue fivefold.

I had a chance to look inside washer when technician came to replace washer door lock (it didn't fit well on the first produced machines) and I was impressed with the strong, military style building quality.

Still wouldn't advise to install Miele washers on the second floor.

Ok, Made in Czech Republic with German QC people working beside them... ;)

more new toys for my Miele!

{{gwi:2002912}}

Czech Republic! That's worst than Mexico, price wise. Those machines are heavy and surely cost an arm to import. Funny thing is that I've saw Whirlpool units with Made in Germany tag. Oh well...

As soon as it's something else than my general dark clothing, I run on Custom program as it's the only one allowing me to choose Slow spin. Anything else, and I'll endup will the whole block falling down. And that's another reason why I don't like my washer: Miele engineering thinks they know better than me at which speed I should spin my laundry. That and the fact that I don't need a rinse/drain cycle.

But it's really the stiffness that left me puzzling. I don't see how using more Persil could help. If stiffness is due to soap residues build-up, then it will only get worst. And using less than a tablespoon doesn't make any sense as I barely see bubbles.

Ostieca, I have the Whirlpool Duet that is made in Germany, but after 10 years the dryer is taking longer and longer to dry.

How long to the Miele wash cycle last for a typical load of jeans or towels?

"How long to the Miele wash cycle last for a typical load of jeans or towels?"

jean cycle run 1 hour 17 minutes with extended wash (added 20 minutes) and extra rinse (added 6 minutes)...

"Miele engineering thinks they know better than me at which speed I should spin my laundry. "

I don't have big problem with that... :)

"That and the fact that I don't need a rinse/drain cycle."

You brought the wrong machine, W4840 will get you TWO different rinse cycles....

"But it's really the stiffness that left me puzzling. "

Our towels are very very soft, and we don't even use ANY fabric softener...

Those high speed spins after wash and between rinses are one of the KEY elements of clean out soap residues....
That's why I clean my color cotton in "Normal" cycle, and white cotton with "extra white" cycle...

I've never run through a complete Normal cycle, since it doesn't heat the water, and I can't even get a reliable Warm wash without heating. Does Normal do a full spin between rinses? I know that Extra White does, while Custom does a pulse spin between rinses (but does a full spin between wash and first rinse).

The 4840 was designed and built in Germany only assembled in Czech Republic.

somonica:

"You brought the wrong machine, W4840 will get you TWO different rinse cycles...."

Yes and no. It's my fault that I felt that Miele new machines were good for me and trusted the dealer. No because the dealer never stressed this point when asked why I should pay more for the 4840, and how can somebody say that it's normal that a 2K$ washing machine won't let you rinse only? Even the Miele tech was speachless when asked to explain this. Which, btw, reminds me of what my Nissan technical advisor said to me earlier today when asked why my new car have rattling sounds: "Oh, the car is not designed to handle Quebec's roads."

I should be moving to a new place with concrete floor next year, so I'll be able to test the High spin cycle for an extended amount of time.

suburbanmd:

Normal cycle in Warm wash without heater is warm enough to clean my color cotton real good..... as long as I use those Persil color and don't open the door after the program started... :)

And Yes, Normal do a full (high) spin between rinses Exactly like "extra white" does...

I've find that in Custom cycle, I can't add as much detergent as I can do in Normal cycle... For some same old stains on cotton, Normal Cycle actually out clean Custom Cycle at the same temperature.

ps: I haven't test that with a meter yet.... But I suspect Hot at Normal will get that heater on, as the wash time longer than all other temperatures setting...

ostieca:

"No because the dealer never stressed this point when asked why I should pay more for the 4840, "

Bad dealer! should loss their jobs in this economy....

"and how can somebody say that it's normal that a 2K$ washing machine won't let you rinse only?"

Because Miele IS a much better build machine inside out. For the same money, Miele still out done those colorful machine with fancy computer....

W4800 and W4840 use exactly the same main control board, and all other hardware in the machine. The only different between them is the user interface board....

"Even the Miele tech was speachless when asked to explain this. "

He SHOULD come back to you place link his laptop to your W4800, and turn on "Maximum Water level" for you. Also ask him to turn off the Bleach dispenser, so you'll get a jet rinse on the first rinse..... Because no one here know to get inside W4800 programmer mode and do that ourselves...

"Oh, the car is not designed to handle Quebec's roads."

I was in Montreal last summer and see your roads.... ah! west coast is so much easier on cars.... :p

Yes, this thing really need and design with concrete floor. Never waste too much time try to balance the load or ask you for help..... They just go ahead to do high speed spin!

My rather badly stated point wasn't to make an issue these machines were built in a particular country, but was to point out the Americanized Miele is not the same kind of machine that was sold here for years by Miele that gained them their reputation.

I looked at their website, and the machines that I am talking about are the appear to be the 12xx and 11xx series now. These are the ones that are built to last forever, have no plastic in them, do require 240 volt hookup, and will sanitize the wash easily up close to boiling temps. (190 degrees+)

Most people who have bought them because they will do a profile wash if hook them up that way. In other words no matter what selection you choose the washer always fills with cold water then gets heated to whatever temp you choose by the fairly large 240 volt heater in the drum. The advantage of this is that hot water will set stains if you start out with it, so instead a profile wash gives the detergent time to start working on the clothes and then the heat is applied. Whites come out white, colors get cleaned easily and it takes very very little detergent to do it. The washer does not have a clorine bleach dispenser.

I have seen no dirty stains that won't be removed by the boiling temps wash but this kind of temperature will easily ruin clothes which is why, my guess, you won't see it on the Americanized style of washer they are selling now. (and of course 110V can't produce this kind of heat) While these washers look small, you can pack them full and they will still wash the clothes. They are more like the kind of front loaders that you see in the laundramatt in therms of this.

I just wanted to comment that European washing machines typically use cold water and have a built-in heaters because water heaters are ridiculously small in Europe. Even a FL machine would drain the tiny water heaters on the initial fill....

bernise6, I'm sure the smaller Mieles have some plastic in them, for insulation and seals and such. Anyway, not all replacement of metal by non-metal parts is necessarily bad. For example, I read that the large Mieles' outer tub is fiberglass instead of stainless steel, because stainless could be damaged by chlorine bleach pooled at the bottom of the tub. This is plausible, since a web search will confirm that chlorine and stainless steel don't get along.

Metal isn't immune from failure, as shown by the Frigidaire drum spider issue. Apparently even Miele has had its issues -- supposedly the drum in the 1918 was made partly of cheap metal that would fail. A few years ago I spent a lot of money to replace a copper pipe, running from my well to my house, under the driveway, with black plastic pipe. Acidic water from the well was going to make that copper leak sooner or later, and an undetected leak could make a real mess.

When I was shopping for a washer, a small capacity unit simply wasn't an option -- my wife wouldn't tolerate it. Among "American" capacity washers, the W4840 seemed like the best choice, and I'm happy with it. Comparison with Miele's small 240V washers is interesting, but ultimately irrelevant for anyone who needs a larger washer.

Actually the European Miele machines are completely stainless and you are not supposed to use chlorine bleach in them. In fact there is no dispenser for bleach. On the other hand, chlorine bleach is not needed as the ability of this washer to heat the water to boiling temps negates the need for it. I am not sure of the relevance of a copper pipe buried in your yard . It's certainly not a reason to question the build quality of the european spec. Miele washers.

Miele also sells this design to laundry mats which is a testimate to their construction. I think without question, anyone that is familiar with them, will testify to their build quality. They did make the Americanized version larger, but it's not clear to me they actually hold more laundry.

Yes, AFAIK Miele changed the outer drum material to accommodate American-market use of chlorine bleach, and the stainless steel outer drum in the "European" machines doesn't constitute a design defect in those machines. Perhaps I should have stated this, so you wouldn't think I was questioning the build quality of those machines. The story about the pipe in my yard was intended to illustrate that metal may not be the best material to use in a given application.

I'm kind of curious about why you're so vehemently against the large Mieles. Have you had any bad experience with them? I also find it strange that, even though you repeatedly praise the "European way" of doing laundry, you would recommend the Speed Queen FL over the large Miele. The SQ FL is definitely oriented toward the "American way".

Incidentally, the laundry room in my mother's building, as busy as a laundromat, is equipped with Maytag Neptune FL's. I could cite that as a testament to the Neptune's construction and reliability, but a lot of people would disagree.